Charging Performance after 2.1.52 HV Preconditioning improvements

[momo3605]

Hi all,

My car is sitting at 20% in the garage and I have some free time to go goof around in the afternoon today. I was thinking about hitting up the 350kw charging stations at EA to see if there are any noticeable improvements to the charge curve.

Does anyone have anything they'd like to see specifically in this regard? If the improvements are to cold weather performance, maybe it's better to see how it does with minimal or no preconditioning? I can grab a few data points at every 5% mark. % - KW rate?

 

[Shane_SLC]

Hi all,

My car is sitting at 20% in the garage and I have some free time to go goof around in the afternoon today. I was thinking about hitting up the 350kw charging stations at EA to see if there are any noticeable improvements to the charge curve.

Does anyone have anything they'd like to see specifically in this regard? If the improvements are to cold weather performance, maybe it's better to see how it does with minimal or no preconditioning? I can grab a few data points at every 5% mark. % - KW rate?

How cold is it where you are? It would be interesting to see if there are any noticeable changes with a cold battery, so maybe you could try not preconditioning. @Volund and I will soon be doing a 0-80% curve comparison between a Touring and GT with preconditioning to see if there are any noticeable changes with the update.

 

[Bobby]

How cold is it where you are? It would be interesting to see if there are any noticeable changes with a cold battery, so maybe you could try not preconditioning. @Volund and I will soon be doing a 0-80% curve comparison between a Touring and GT with preconditioning to see if there are any noticeable changes with the update.

It seems to be that the wildcard is EA, not the car.

 

[momo3605]

How cold is it where you are? It would be interesting to see if there are any noticeable changes with a cold battery, so maybe you could try not preconditioning. @Volund and I will soon be doing a 0-80% curve comparison between a Touring and GT with preconditioning to see if there are any noticeable changes with the update.

not super cold, battery is probably at ~50F. I usually get a low 110-120kw rate when i plug in without preconditioning at these temps

 

[sri]

It seems to be that the wildcard is EA, not the car.

Yes, i find other providers have charging rates higher with my Lucid comapred to EA some times. Last time when i used Charge point i have seen better averages.

 

[Shane_SLC]

It seems to be that the wildcard is EA, not the car.

I'll admit I'm not as hard on EA as everyone else, but FWIW we'll be using an EVGO station that historically has worked really well, and the units provide more charging data so we can hopefully verify the session isn’t station limited.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

It is station dependent. The newer units clearly work better. I pulled 245 kW with my Touring last stop starting at about 15% SOC. Preconditioning impact would be interesting.

 

[momo3605]

Ok! Some good news and some bad news!

Bad news first: So while my battery was cold soaked (50F), and I preconditioned for maybe 10 minutes, I was capped at 120kw at low SOC so if there were any improvements to charging in cold weather conditions, I did not see them.

Good news! So after about 40% once the charge started tapering off, it looks like there may be some slight improvements to the charge rate above 50%! I made a little excel chart showing the difference, but looks like it was a bit quicker than @Shane_SLC's curve

Raw Data: (sorry I don't know how to format this table)

%	Charging Rate
5​
10​
15​
20​	120​
25​	120​
30​	120​
35​	120​
40​	120​
45​	110​
50​	105​
55​	99​
60​	97​
65​	88​
70​	79​
75​	70​
80​	60​

 

[Bunnylebowski]

It seems to be that the wildcard is EA, not the car.

Yeah, I went to my local EA this morning at 38F outside, 40% SOC, got 83kw on a 350kw charger. Meanwhile in New Hampshire at the Merrimack EA I got 259kw and it was colder outside.

 

[momo3605]

Yeah, I went to my local EA this morning at 38F outside, 40% SOC, got 83kw on a 350kw charger. Meanwhile in New Hampshire at the Merrimack EA I got 259kw and it was colder outside.

Did your GT transform into a Taycan?

You must be mis-remembering your SOC level, I don’t think there’s any condition in which you can do 260kw at 40% in an Air GT. At best the Dream can do 200kw at 40%

 

[Shane_SLC]

Ok! Some good news and some bad news!

Bad news first: So while my battery was cold soaked (50F), and I preconditioned for maybe 10 minutes, I was capped at 120kw at low SOC so if there were any improvements to charging in cold weather conditions, I did not see them.

Good news! So after about 40% once the charge started tapering off, it looks like there may be some slight improvements to the charge rate above 50%! I made a little excel chart showing the difference, but looks like it was a bit quicker than @Shane_SLC's curve

View attachment 18321

Raw Data: (sorry I don't know how to format this table)

%	Charging Rate
5​
10​
15​
20​	120​
25​	120​
30​	120​
35​	120​
40​	120​
45​	110​
50​	105​
55​	99​
60​	97​
65​	88​
70​	79​
75​	70​
80​	60​

Hurray data! Compared to all the data I've collected I'm not seeing any significant difference above 50%. I suspect the charger was limiting speeds below 50%, though. Without preconditioning the speed will typically climb slightly as the battery warms up before dipping back down. Thanks for taking the time to share!

 

[momo3605]

Hurray data! Compared to all the data I've collected I'm not seeing any significant difference above 50%. I suspect the charger was limiting speeds below 50%, though. Without preconditioning the speed will typically climb slightly as the battery warms up before dipping back down. Thanks for taking the time to share!

You posted two sessions in the other thread and that’s what I plotted against. Are you saying that data was not accurate?

 

[BS8899]

Did your GT transform into a Taycan?

You must be mis-remembering your SOC level, I don’t think there’s any condition in which you can do 260kw at 40% in an Air GT. At best the Dream can do 200kw at 40%

I support Bunnylebowski's observations. My experience with EA chargers is similar. 350kW "Hyper" chargers routinely only charge @ less than 100kW; most of the time @ between 60-75kW, even at the lost favorable part of the SoC charging curve! That said, I did experience EA 350kW chargers delivering over 300lW on (very) short bursts, but not recently. Often, I get messages from the charger that says the charge rate is limited by the charger. I don't know (i.e., I can't prove it) if it is related to multiple EA chargers, all rated at 350kW (Hyper), and all trying to charge cars at a high rate and limited by the charge station's max supply. If they are all populated at the same time, not all of them can deliver at the peak 350kW level. Perhaps the chargers are limited by the total power available to service ALL the chargers.

 

[hydbob]

Ok! Some good news and some bad news!

Bad news first: So while my battery was cold soaked (50F), and I preconditioned for maybe 10 minutes, I was capped at 120kw at low SOC so if there were any improvements to charging in cold weather conditions, I did not see them.

Good news! So after about 40% once the charge started tapering off, it looks like there may be some slight improvements to the charge rate above 50%! I made a little excel chart showing the difference, but looks like it was a bit quicker than @Shane_SLC's curve

View attachment 18321

Raw Data: (sorry I don't know how to format this table)

%	Charging Rate
5​
10​
15​
20​	120​
25​	120​
30​	120​
35​	120​
40​	120​
45​	110​
50​	105​
55​	99​
60​	97​
65​	88​
70​	79​
75​	70​
80​	60​

I would not consider 50F cold soaked. Did you see the blue area on the battery gauge?

 

[Shane_SLC]

You posted two sessions in the other thread and that’s what I plotted against. Are you saying that data was not accurate?

Post in thread 'Reduced fast charging performance' https://lucidowners.com/threads/reduced-fast-charging-performance.6975/post-170040

More data I had gathered. Note the Baker CA session 11/19. Also...

I would not consider 50F cold soaked. Did you see the blue area on the battery gauge?

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Did your GT transform into a Taycan?

You must be mis-remembering your SOC level, I don’t think there’s any condition in which you can do 260kw at 40% in an Air GT. At best the Dream can do 200kw at 40%

Yeah it was at 14 % SOC in New Hampshire. Still though, 83kw at 40% SOC is bad.

 

[BS8899]

Yeah it was at 14 % SOC in New Hampshire. Still though, 83kw at 40% SOC is bad.

Yup, similar to my experience!

 

[sri]

Just charged my GT SOC 14%.
Took 39min to 80%, no preconditioning. Outside temp 73F. Peak rate 215KW and lows of 65KW. Nothing that i see is a limit of the car. First saw a suggestion popped on screen on how to get best speeds . Will try to chart it next time.

 

[xponents]

Did your GT transform into a Taycan?

You must be mis-remembering your SOC level, I don’t think there’s any condition in which you can do 260kw at 40% in an Air GT. At best the Dream can do 200kw at 40%

To give some other manufacturer comparison, our new EV despite being on an 800v architecture and having an aggressive curve, still "only" does around 230 kw at 40 percent. I still think that Lucid's charging curve is the best balance of degradation and speed compared to other manufacturers, keeping these charging speeds in mind. As with our EV, the sweet spot for charging is always around 20-50 for the fastest trip in the Lucid while minimizing degradation(5-50 if you dont care about deg)!

 

[Bobby]

To give some other manufacturer comparison, our new EV despite being on an 800v architecture and having an aggressive curve, still "only" does around 230 kw at 40 percent. I still think that Lucid's charging curve is the best balance of degradation and speed compared to other manufacturers, keeping these charging speeds in mind. As with our EV, the sweet spot for charging is always around 20-50 for the fastest trip in the Lucid while minimizing degradation(5-50 if you dont care about deg)!

You got a new EV?