My GT DCFC charging experience

[LucidPez]

I'm a nerd for charging speeds so will try to log my experiences on my Air GT whenever I get a chance and will do it in this thread to keep it all contained. I also know we dont have much GT data as many people who have posted data have posted DE/DE-P numbers from years back. Same on YT.

Had my first DCFC charging experience today. I ended up driving my car and manually preconditioned my battery for about 60 minutes today. Some of it was while waiting for a charger but about 35 minutes of it was while driving around town and on the highway.

My state of charge on arrival at the charging station was 8%. It was on a 350kW Balanced Charger at Irvine Spectrum Center in Irvine CA. This is probably one of the most popular charging stations in SoCal and the stations are typically super reliable and have good uptime which is why I went here. Temps today were 60-65F here in Orange County and this was at like 4pm so sun was still up so in the sun it is probably a tad warmer.

An Audi e-tron or Q4 was next to me finishing up their charge. They only had 4-5 minutes of charging before they hopped off.

Overall, it went okay. After the e-tron disappeared and they unplugged, the EA station must of had amperage adjustments because my charge speed dropped quickly then recovered back up over the next 30 seconds to a minute to where it was. When a VW ID4 came in, they were at 74% SoC and were only pulling 50kW yet my speed did drop from 220s down to 177kW. The car then shot out a note that let me know my power draw was being withheld due to the station itself. After I got to about 45-50%, the message disappeared because I was probably at that max amount it could output in my charging curve.

Either way, 8-80% took 36 minutes. It dispensed 82.5kWh. I did peak at 273-274kW when I first hopped on the charger. I think the sweet spot is to unplug at about 65% when on a roadtrip to maximize time unless you need the extra wait. I'm fairly sure the charge from 8-65% was about 26 minutes or so which isnt too bad for how much energy it spits out in that time.

 

[Shane_SLC]

Thanks for sharing your experience! Seems like it was a solid session overall. I imagine it's next to impossible to get that perfect, unrestricted session in the area with how busy the chargers are, but as long as you're flexible and attentive you shouldn't have much difficulty getting what you need. I'll be sharing a charging curve log with a GT soon, and I'll be curious to see if you think it lines up with yours overall.

 

[LucidPez]

I may try a late night charge session one night. Gotta precondition the battery up and idle or drive around one night to test it.

 

[terrycs]

Thanks for posting. Noted ... for the next time I'm at the Spectrum. The chargers there are inside the parking structure?

 

[momo3605]

I think the sweet spot is to unplug at about 65% when on a roadtrip to maximize time unless you need the extra wait. I'm fairly sure the charge from 8-65% was about 26 minutes or so which isnt too bad for how much energy it spits out in that time.

Yea this makes a lot of sense. You really have to use the bottom half of the curve on these cars. Like lucid advertises, 200 miles in 12 minutes, if you can road trip with chargers placed <150 miles apart, you can just do 5-40% charges and move along quickly

 

[hydbob]

That's just the limitation of Li-On batteries I believe

 

[BS8899]

I may try a late night charge session one night. Gotta precondition the battery up and idle or drive around one night to test it.

My experience with EA DCFC is similar to your experience.

If I were at an EA station with multiple chargers but I was the only one charging, I could get close to the 350kW burst if I pre-conditioned the battery and at a low SoC (below 10%). I did experience this "high" one time. As noted by many, the 350kW "burst" lasts only for a few short minutes and tapers off to about 150kW or so (see charging curves reported by many).

Recently, I've been using an EA charging station in Mill Valley (CA). The station has three 350kW chargers. However, I have never been able to get better than 70-75kW (less than 40% SoC, preconditioned) out of them when all the 3 EA chargers are in use. I went around the station and looked at what the other cars were getting. They were all in the 40-75kW range.

A couple of days ago, as an experiment, I went to the Mill Valley EA station at 4AM. I was the only one charging. The outside temperature was about 55F. My SoC was ~12%. I preconditioned the battery for about 20 minutes before charging. I got ~140kW charging rate at the onset. This was the highest charge rate I ever experienced at the Mill Valley station!

My take (I can't prove it with real data but my experience suggests the following),

Where there are multiple EA chargers in the same station, they share a common power feed that is less than the number of chargers X their rated maximum. In the Mill Valley case, the three 350kW chargers would have required a 1,050kW supply to allow all 3 chargers to run @350kW simultaneously. I "THINK" the station is facilitated for less than that, perhaps less than 400kW total. As a result, when multiple chargers are in use simultaneously, all of the chargers throttle to a much lower rate. I think EA can (and should) do better than that!

If I put myself in EA's shoes, it might not make economic sense to facilitate their charging stations to enable all chargers to run at their maximum rates simultaneously. But I think EA's facilitation is too much on the low side.

In contrast, when I charge my Rivian R1S at Rivian's Adventure Charging Stations (rated @300kw), I typically get ~250kW plus at the onset (low SoC). The Rivian chargers are also very reliable. I have yet to come across a faulty one.

 

[LucidPez]

My experience with EA DCFC is similar to your experience.

If I were at an EA station with multiple chargers but I was the only one charging, I could get close to the 350kW burst if I pre-conditioned the battery and at a low SoC (below 10%). I did experience this "high" one time. As noted by many, the 350kW "burst" lasts only for a few short minutes and tapers off to about 150kW or so (see charging curves reported by many).

Recently, I've been using an EA charging station in Mill Valley (CA). The station has three 350kW chargers. However, I have never been able to get better than 70-75kW (less than 40% SoC, preconditioned) out of them when all the 3 EA chargers are in use. I went around the station and looked at what the other cars were getting. They were all in the 40-75kW range.

A couple of days ago, as an experiment, I went to the Mill Valley EA station at 4AM. I was the only one charging. The outside temperature was about 55F. My SoC was ~12%. I preconditioned the battery for about 20 minutes before charging. I got ~140kW charging rate at the onset. This was the highest charge rate I ever experienced at the Mill Valley station!

My take (I can't prove it with real data but my experience suggests the following),

Where there are multiple EA chargers in the same station, they share a common power feed that is less than the number of chargers X their rated maximum. In the Mill Valley case, the three 350kW chargers would have required a 1,050kW supply to allow all 3 chargers to run @350kW simultaneously. I "THINK" the station is facilitated for less than that, perhaps less than 400kW total. As a result, when multiple chargers are in use simultaneously, all of the chargers throttle to a much lower rate. I think EA can (and should) do better than that!

If I put myself in EA's shoes, it might not make economic sense to facilitate their charging stations to enable all chargers to run at their maximum rates simultaneously. But I think EA's facilitation is too much on the low side.

In contrast, when I charge my Rivian R1S at Rivian's Adventure Charging Stations (rated @300kw), I typically get ~250kW plus at the onset (low SoC). The Rivian chargers are also very reliable. I have yet to come across a faulty one.

EA already notes these chargers as “Balanced” when they split power. It’s on the label of the station.

Electrify America Charging Speed | EV Fast Charger

With Electrify America's DC fast chargers, you can charge in as little as 30 minutes! Learn more about EV charging speeds at our fast charging stations.

www.electrifyamerica.com

honestly sounds like the station has issues on your end maybe.

Thanks for posting. Noted ... for the next time I'm at the Spectrum. The chargers there are inside the parking structure?

Yep! Next to Nordstrom. But I should note that these may be the busiest chargers in the US. I’ve seen these full until 2-3am even.

 

[BS8899]

EA already notes these chargers as “Balanced” when they split power. It’s on the label of the station.

Electrify America Charging Speed | EV Fast Charger

With Electrify America's DC fast chargers, you can charge in as little as 30 minutes! Learn more about EV charging speeds at our fast charging stations.

www.electrifyamerica.com

honestly sounds like the station has issues on your end maybe.




Yep! Next to Nordstrom. But I should note that these may be the busiest chargers in the US. I’ve seen these full until 2-3am even.

EA already notes these chargers as “Balanced” when they split power. It’s on the label of the station.

Electrify America Charging Speed | EV Fast Charger

With Electrify America's DC fast chargers, you can charge in as little as 30 minutes! Learn more about EV charging speeds at our fast charging stations.

www.electrifyamerica.com

honestly sounds like the station has issues on your end maybe.




Yep! Next to Nordstrom. But I should note that these may be the busiest chargers in the US. I’ve seen these full until 2-3am even.

fair point RE: EA's disclosure of "balanced chargers". I think "balance" is a fair engineering/economics tradeoff. that said, my point is, is the "balanced point" set too low thereby handicapping all the chargers most of the time?

 

[borski]

fair point RE: EA's disclosure of "balanced chargers". I think "balance" is a fair engineering/economics tradeoff. that said, my point is, is the "balanced point" set too low thereby handicapping all the chargers most of the time?

Balanced chargers are only ever balanced across two vehicles, and cap out at 175kW each, if both are plugged in. I have gotten 150-175kW on a balanced charger, often.

 

[BS8899]

Balanced chargers are only ever balanced across two vehicles, and cap out at 175kW each, if both are plugged in. I have gotten 150-175kW on a balanced charger, often.

Well, maybe the Mill Valley chargers are simply defective. I've talked to several (~10) EV owners who routinely charge at that station. Vehicles involved range from Lucid to Porsche, to VW-ID4, Polestar, BMWs, etc.. No one gets above 75-80kW on a consistent basis, even with a low starting SoC (say, less than 20%).

 

[LucidPez]

Well, maybe the Mill Valley chargers are simply defective. I've talked to several (~10) EV owners who routinely charge at that station. Vehicles involved range from Lucid to Porsche, to VW-ID4, Polestar, BMWs, etc.. No one gets above 75-80kW on a consistent basis, even with a low starting SoC (say, less than 20%).

Checked the PlugShare for it.. Seems to have okay reviews but I think most just reported successful charges despite speed. They did have an Ioniq 5 report 242kW which is their peak last month. So may have started having issues recently

 

[borski]

Well, maybe the Mill Valley chargers are simply defective. I've talked to several (~10) EV owners who routinely charge at that station. Vehicles involved range from Lucid to Porsche, to VW-ID4, Polestar, BMWs, etc.. No one gets above 75-80kW on a consistent basis, even with a low starting SoC (say, less than 20%).

Oh, I'm not suggesting every single charger is perfect by any means. But a balanced charger is definitely balanced between two cables, not more than that, and it's definitely capped at 175kW per cable if both are in use. That does not mean every charger is going to operate equally.

 

[Neurio]

Oh, I'm not suggesting every single charger is perfect by any means. But a balanced charger is definitely balanced between two cables, not more than that, and it's definitely capped at 175kW per cable if both are in use. That does not mean every charger is going to operate equally.

The balanced chargers only cap at 175 kw if both cars are requesting 175 kw or higher. The idea of balancing is to total up to 350 kw speed between the 2 chargers. If you see a Bolt charging on one, take the paired charger because you can still get nearly 300 kw max speed (Bolts are limited to 55 kw speed). Similarly, a car rated for higher speeds that is close to full won't request as much, so you'll potentially get a higher initial speed.

 

[BS8899]

Checked the PlugShare for it.. Seems to have okay reviews but I think most just reported successful charges despite speed. They did have an Ioniq 5 report 242kW which is their peak last month. So may have started having issues recently

The chargers at the Mill Valley Station are not "down". They are just slooow!. There are three 350kW chargers. So, using @borski's description, one of the chargers (that doesn't have a paired charger) should be able to deliver a higher rate, IF the incoming electrical lines can support that.

My guess (not a proof) is that these 350kW chargers might be limited by the underlying utility provision, not by the draw from the charging vehicles (where the "balancing" is intended to mitigate).

 

[BS8899]

The balanced chargers only cap at 175 kw if both cars are requesting 175 kw or higher. The idea of balancing is to total up to 350 kw speed between the 2 chargers. If you see a Bolt charging on one, take the paired charger because you can still get nearly 300 kw max speed (Bolts are limited to 55 kw speed). Similarly, a car rated for higher speeds that is close to full won't request as much, so you'll potentially get a higher initial speed.

Agreed, that's the way I understood it!

 

[BS8899]

Agreed, that's the way I understood it!

And it makes perfect sense, from EA's point of view. I would have designed it the same way.

 

[borski]

The balanced chargers only cap at 175 kw if both cars are requesting 175 kw or higher. The idea of balancing is to total up to 350 kw speed between the 2 chargers. If you see a Bolt charging on one, take the paired charger because you can still get nearly 300 kw max speed (Bolts are limited to 55 kw speed). Similarly, a car rated for higher speeds that is close to full won't request as much, so you'll potentially get a higher initial speed.

Yeah good point!

 

[REHPortland]

I have a question that I hope someone can help me with…I use EA Fast DC chargers near my home. They are very reliable. However, I have never seen anything near 350 output, it normally begins charging at about 150-200. It drops rapidly after that. But I’m still OK with it. My question is: I use these fast charging DC units almost exclusivey. I haven't installed a home charger, yet. I read that fast charging is bad for the battery life. I find that my driving usage is such that I don’t need a home charger and I want to take advantage of the free charging which was included in my purchase. Am I damaging my batteries by using the Fast DC chargers? How often should I use a slower/AC charging method? (I use a 50AMP 240Volt Lucid charger at my second home, it works great. I just don’t use it often).
Thanks.

 

[segbrk]

I have a question that I hope someone can help me with…I use EA Fast DC chargers near my home. They are very reliable. However, I have never seen anything near 350 output, it normally begins charging at about 150-200. It drops rapidly after that. But I’m still OK with it. My question is: I use these fast charging DC units almost exclusivey. I haven't installed a home charger, yet. I read that fast charging is bad for the battery life. I find that my driving usage is such that I don’t need a home charger and I want to take advantage of the free charging which was included in my purchase. Am I damaging my batteries by using the Fast DC chargers? How often should I use a slower/AC charging method? (I use a 50AMP 240Volt Lucid charger at my second home, it works great. I just don’t use it often).
Thanks.

The answer is we don't know, these cars haven't existed long enough to see the long term impact. However, several members of this forum do as you do and take full advantage of the free DCFC. They have not seen significant battery degradation over the past 2 years beyond what all new batteries see.
As for your charging rates, that's not abnormal. You'll only ever see 200+ kW for a short period of time at low state of charge. It makes very little difference overall compared to the 150kW EA chargers, which often actually give you closer to 175kW.

Also, I know installing a home charger can be difficult, but have you thought about all the cheaper, easier half-solutions? You can split the power running to your dryer so that your car charges while your dryer is off and vice versa (if your dryer plug is somewhere near where you park your car). You can get tens of miles per day, maybe enough to cover your average city driving, from a regular 120V outlet just to extend your time between DCFC.