Preconditioning questions

[hydbob]

I don’t know this for certain but I don’t think driving aggressively warms the battery. I think the thermal management system warms or cools the battery for battery health. So that is simply a function of time not load on the battery.

It is very hard to do valid tests of preconditioning because EA charger performance is so situation specific.

You can warm the battery by accelerating and pumping Regen in. It was the way Kyle from Out of Spec preconditioned his battery on a car without preconditioning.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Good point. Charging warms the battery and regen is one form of charging.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Another thing to consider if you have a cold battery, above 40% there will be minimal difference preconditioned or not since the rate slows down quite a bit

When my battery is preconditioned (or warm) it typically reaches 80% SOC pulling ~ 80 kW = on the curve I've seen elsewhere.
Without preconditioning, yesterday in 45 (F) degrees at 350 EA charger never went beyond 42 kW ... with message "Charging limited by car "

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Results of this morning's test. Temperatures are in Fahrenheit (F) Preconditioning 40 minutes. EA 350 charger.

Temp. at end of session 28 degrees Fahrenheit. One person charging next to me. I was wrong when I earlier said was pulling ~80kW at 80% SOC

I was at the same charger yesterday when all chargers were full.
Temp was 45 degrees Fahrenheit.
SOC was 62%
no preconditioning
max initial rate was 42kW. left after a few minutes as others were waiting.

 

[momo3605]

When my battery is preconditioned (or warm) it typically reaches 80% SOC pulling ~ 80 kW = on the curve I've seen elsewhere.

That doesn't sound right, but yea, I charged again this morning from 11% at a different station/different stall from last time, preconditioned for 15 minutes, and it stalled at 130kw. Around 40% it dropped and started to follow the fully preconditioned curve. So I stand by my hypothesis. In mild winter conditions like CA, preconditioning for 1hr is not worth it. The time saved between 10-40% is minimal, and only worth it if you're really draining your battery near empty on a regular basis.

Without preconditioning, yesterday in 45 (F) degrees at 350 EA charger never went beyond 42 kW ... with message "Charging limited by car "

Try preconditioning for 10 minutes or just as far as the charger is from your home and see how it goes. I think you should have similar experience to mine.

 

[hydbob]

That doesn't sound right, but yea, I charged again this morning from 11% at a different station/different stall from last time, preconditioned for 15 minutes, and it stalled at 130kw. Around 40% it dropped and started to follow the fully preconditioned curve. So I stand by my hypothesis. In mild winter conditions like CA, preconditioning for 1hr is not worth it. The time saved between 10-40% is minimal, and only worth it if you're really draining your battery near empty on a regular basis.

Try preconditioning for 10 minutes or just as far as the charger is from your home and see how it goes. I think you should have similar experience to mine.

preconditioning is really made for non CA coastal areas

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

I was wrong about pulling 80 kW as I near 80% SOC. Someone published the Lucid GT charging curve, kW vs %SOC . I can't find it.

Here is documentation from yesterday. Temp ~45 (F). No preconditioning. This is initial charge rate. It went down from here.

Message on dash was. " speed limited by car to protect battery " or something similar.

 

[momo3605]

I was wrong about pulling 80 kW as I near 80% SOC. Someone published the Lucid GT charging curve, kW vs %SOC . I can't find it.

I posted in another thread, but no one has ever posted a GT charge curve from <20% up to 80% (or it's hidden somewhere that i haven't been able to find). Only a few flexing screenshots of hitting 250+ at 20% or 30% SOC. I wanna see the overall curve!!

I think you may have seen a DE-P charge curve. Those seem to sustain a lot higher speeds than the GT/Tourings. That can do 80kw at 80%. For a 25% larger battery compared to the Touring, it does 50% faster charging at any given SOC %

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

I have the GT "regular" battery. Pretty sure the Dream Edition, and the GTP are a bit better.
Note that at ~ 45% SOC the charger 350 or 150 makes no difference.

 

[momo3605]

I have the GT "regular" battery. Pretty sure the Dream Edition, and the GTP are a bit better.
Note that at ~ 45% SOC the charger 350 or 150 makes no difference.
View attachment 18531

yea that break-even point is way lower on the regular Pure/Touring/GTs. Under 40%

 

[borski]

yea that break-even point is way lower on the regular Pure/Touring/GTs. Under 40%

I really want someone (well, multiple) with a Pure, Touring, and GT to install the Home Assistant integration and graph a DCFC.

 

[momo3605]

I really want someone (well, multiple) with a Pure, Touring, and GT to install the Home Assistant integration and graph a DCFC.

Pure/Touring i think we've seen enough of. @Shane_SLC has posted multiple, i've posted an admittedly non-preconditioned graph so under 40% it's not valuable, but above 40% it lines up with Shanes.

We just need to see a GT! Even if someone just grabs the SOC - Charge Rate at every 5% increments, that would be all you need to see how it looks compared to a DE.

@Cosmo Cruz gave us a preconditioned screen grab of 64kw at 80% on a GT compared to 80kw at 80% on a DE. That's 20% slower for a 5% smaller battery. Major difference

 

[borski]

Pure/Touring i think we've seen enough of. @Shane_SLC has posted multiple, i've posted an admittedly non-preconditioned graph so under 40% it's not valuable, but above 40% it lines up with Shanes.

We just need to see a GT! Even if someone just grabs the SOC - Charge Rate at every 5% increments, that would be all you need to see how it looks compared to a DE.

@Cosmo Cruz gave us a preconditioned screen grab of 64kw at 80% on a GT compared to 80kw at 80% on a DE. That's 20% slower for a 5% smaller battery. Major difference

Yeah but - I want to see a real graph, that’s what I’m saying, not random snapshots. The integration updates every 15 seconds and will give you the exact graph you want; I’d be happy to help someone set it up if they already have Home Assistant running.

 

[Shane_SLC]

Yeah but - I want to see a real graph, that’s what I’m saying, not random snapshots. The integration updates every 15 seconds and will give you the exact graph you want; I’d be happy to help someone set it up if they already have Home Assistant running.

If I buy the Home Assistant Green device is there anything else I'd need for the Lucid integration setup?

 

[segbrk]

If I buy the Home Assistant Green device is there anything else I'd need for the Lucid integration setup?

Nope, that'll do it. Plug that thing in and we can help get you set up.

 

[LucidPez]

I really want someone (well, multiple) with a Pure, Touring, and GT to install the Home Assistant integration and graph a DCFC.

I'm a total newb. Is there a good step by step ? I am more than happy to get everything as I love the data.

 

[segbrk]

I'm a total newb. Is there a good step by step ? I am more than happy to get everything as I love the data.

The outline of steps is:
1) Set up HomeAssistant somewhere. This is home automation software, sort of like a Nest Hub or an Apple HomePod except built by a community with support for integrating all sorts of "smart" brands/devices. You can buy a Home Assistant Green device, which is the super easy route. Just like the HomePod, you just plug it in, install the app on your phone, and get going. If you're tech-savvy and have a spare computer (Raspberry Pi, whatever, doesn't matter) laying around you can install the software yourself instead.
2) Install the Home Assistant Community Store extension (HACS), which gives you access to extensions like ours which haven't been accepted into the more curated Home Assistant core yet.
3) Install our extension via HACS, following our instructions.
4) Nothing but button-pushing from here - in the app (or website if you prefer a full sized screen), you'll go to Settings > Devices > Add, search for Lucid, and enter your credentials.

Optional step, if you want access to the data/controls from outside your home, subscribe to HA's cloud service. Again if you're tech-savvy and feel like it you can forward ports, reverse proxy, or other such shenanigans rather than paying for the service.

Happy to help if you have other questions or run into problems.

... This should really go in its own thread somewhere easier to find, oops.

 

[momo3605]

I'm a total newb. Is there a good step by step ? I am more than happy to get everything as I love the data.

You have a GT right? Can you just post the 5% increments from charging if you get a chance in the near future?

The home integration is cool, but look at the curves from everyone. It's smooth, there aren't any spikes or anything. A quick plot of the 5% increments will give us all the info we need

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Pure/Touring i think we've seen enough of. @Shane_SLC has posted multiple, i've posted an admittedly non-preconditioned graph so under 40% it's not valuable, but above 40% it lines up with Shanes.

We just need to see a GT! Even if someone just grabs the SOC - Charge Rate at every 5% increments, that would be all you need to see how it looks compared to a DE.

@Cosmo Cruz gave us a preconditioned screen grab of 64kw at 80% on a GT compared to 80kw at 80% on a DE. That's 20% slower for a 5% smaller battery. Major difference

....Lucid has all this data ... it's streamed from every car in use. why don't we just ask them by proxy, since they are so shy about what they know about us.

god sees everyone

{answer to my own question: because knowledge is power. Also, wouldn't it be fun to unite the community by having us gather data, flawed as it may be, if you get enough the flaws don't matter.}

 

[xponents]

....Lucid has all this data ... it's streamed from every car in use. why don't we just ask them by proxy, since they are so shy about what they know about us.

god sees everyone

{answer to my own question: because knowledge is power. Also, wouldn't it be fun to unite the community by having us gather data, flawed as it may be, if you get enough the flaws don't matter.}

Lucid is notoriously quiet about these kind of things, even going so far to not provide detailed telemetry to owners relating to a crash they might have had. Not many manufacturers reveal the charging curves for cars, instead using 20-80 metrics, which I consider useless as they are based on peak speeds. Owner supplied info may be the only way we get these curves, and as a LOT of the active members on this forum have GTs, I hope this can be done soon!