Reduced fast charging performance

[Rogue]

i wonder why they would discontinue that technology if it worked so well, why not keep using it.

Precious metals would be my guess. Costs would be another. We have very little idea or at least absolute numbers (so far as I'm aware) what the battery composition is between the two different types of battery. Therefore, we cannot ascertain the trade-offs Lucid was weighing.

 

[momo3605]

Precious metals would be my guess. Costs would be another. We have very little idea or at least absolute numbers (so far as I'm aware) what the battery composition is between the two different types of battery. Therefore, we cannot ascertain the trade-offs Lucid was weighing.

Yea I suppose so. Wasn't the GT like $150k when it came out? I can't imagine the cost of GT vs Dream as being that significant. But maybe it was. We know they lose money on every car so every penny probably matters a lot

 

[Rogue]

Yea I suppose so. Wasn't the GT like $150k when it came out? I can't imagine the cost of GT vs Dream as being that significant. But maybe it was. We know they lose money on every car so every penny probably matters a lot

$139k GT Legacy Pricing vs $169k (?) Dream Pricing. Then GT was bumped to $154k?

I could have the pricing differences wrong, but that would be a $15k price difference at the new price and $27k at legacy. How much of that would be for the batteries? No idea.

 

[xponents]

$139k GT Legacy Pricing vs $169k (?) Dream Pricing. Then GT was bumped to $154k?

I could have the pricing differences wrong, but that would be a $15k price difference at the new price and $27k at legacy. How much of that would be for the batteries? No idea.

No, those are exactly right.

And the samsung chemistry was very expensive. I think they may be cheaper now, as they are in the gravity.

 

[momo3605]

No, those are exactly right.

And the samsung chemistry was very expensive. I think they may be cheaper now, as they are in the gravity.

so along with outdated CPUs, the Airs will have outdated battery chemistry too? Man Lucid is making changes too fast lol. I'm glad i did an 18 month lease. Good for them though, i think they'll be really successful with the gravity with all the improvements

 

[Lucken]

Technology moves ahead. Embrace it.

 

[Bobby]

so along with outdated CPUs, the Airs will have outdated battery chemistry too? Man Lucid is making changes too fast lol. I'm glad i did an 18 month lease.

Cars typically have a 4+ year development cycle. The CPU is not outdated, it's from 2015 when the car was developed. I'm sure they will update it at some point and perhaps may offer an upgrade to legacy users. This is normal for all types of automobiles, not just Lucid. For example, the entire CPU entertainment system in my 2019 Jaguar I Pace (and all other Jaguar and Range Rover vehicles) was completely updated and replaced for the 2021 and subsequent models. They did not offer an upgrade path for older users.

To me, this is a sign that Lucid is growing, learning, and improving. I wouldn't want them to lay back and just make the same old car without any technological changes. I certainly don't feel left behind because my car operates better than when I bought it a year ago.

This is also true in any other technology industry. You can't expect your computer to be current for more than a year or two. However, it still works and functions as it did when you voluntarily bought it at that time. You'll never be able to "wait out" technology.

 

[Adnillien]

No, those are exactly right.

And the samsung chemistry was very expensive. I think they may be cheaper now, as they are in the gravity.

The only thing known about Gravity battery is that it is 120kWhr battery, nothing about the cells.

 

[xponents]

so along with outdated CPUs, the Airs will have outdated battery chemistry too? Man Lucid is making changes too fast lol. I'm glad i did an 18 month lease. Good for them though, i think they'll be really successful with the gravity with all the improvements

The CPU was new when in development. EVs are rapidly progressing and I would not at all be shocked if the Air is beaten within a year or two.

 

[xponents]

The only thing known about Gravity battery is that it is 120kWhr battery, nothing about the cells.

Actually, they announced a new deal with samsung(de battery supplier) regarding the gravity. We don't know if the new cells will be used, but I think there is a good chance.

 

[Adnillien]

Dream charges a lotfaster. They slowed it down for the GT. Is it just me or is it so strange that the Dream and i think GTP? charge faster and actually go 500 miles on a charge. But on the GT it loses 100 miles of real world range and charges slow. Why is there such a huge difference!?

I am not sure where you are getting this incorrect speculation.

 

[momo3605]

Cars typically have a 4+ year development cycle. The CPU is not outdated, it's from 2015 when the car was developed. I'm sure they will update it at some point for the new model year. This is normal for all types of automobiles, not just Lucid.

I don't want to derail this thread on CPUs but I generally agree. It is very common for legacy automakers. My 2023 M340 had the latest idrive 8 system that JUST came out in that model that year. and 6 month later they announced 8.5 which could be updated on some cars, but not the 3 series, because they used some older CPU! Outdated within 6 months lol.

But for automakers that advertise OTA updates and constant improvements, they shouldn't be making these kind of changes too fast. Tesla has a great history of not making CPU changes for looong periods of time, and Rivian hasn't made any changes either. Lucid has changed it up twice in 2 years. That's too fast imo, and gives me pause on how long the cars will be supported.

 

[momo3605]

I am not sure where you are getting this incorrect speculation.

who said it's speculation? The charging curves and range tests are documented all over the internet including this forum...

 

[xponents]

But for automakers that advertise OTA updates and constant improvements, they shouldn't be making these kind of changes too fast. Tesla has a great history of not making CPU changes for looong periods of time, and Rivian hasn't made any changes either. Lucid has changed it up twice in 2 years. That's too fast imo, and gives me pause on how long the cars will be supported.

So you are against... Lucid improving their cars?

 

[momo3605]

So you are against... Lucid improving their cars?

I am all for it! I swear no one reads what I write. I literally wrote this:

Good for them though, i think they'll be really successful with the gravity with all the improvements

 

[xponents]

I am all for it! I swear no one reads what I write. I literally wrote this:

Sorry then!

 

[Adnillien]

who said it's speculation? The charging curves and range tests are documented all over the internet including this forum...

I assume that you are referring to InsideEVs Dream test of 510 actual miles and Car and Driver’s GT test showing 410 actual miles. You can’t compare these since InsideEVs used 70 mph and Car and Driver used 75 mph. All of the owners here know how quickly efficiency drops with speed.

 

[DeaneG]

i wonder why they would discontinue that technology if it worked so well, why not keep using it.

Lithium cells are available in several different types and are evolving roughly every few years. Some types store more energy but are more expensive. Others store less energy and are less expensive. Each type has other attributes - how fast can it be charged at different SOC levels, how much instantaneous power is available (=>hp at the wheels), how it behaves in cold/hot extremes, can it be charged to 100% without degradation, how does it behave when mechanically damaged.

Engineering and product management together select the best type of lithium battery, with all its accompanying tradeoffs, to suit the vehicle's intended market.

 

[momo3605]

I assume that you are referring to InsideEVs Dream test of 510 actual miles and Car and Driver’s GT test showing 410 actual miles. You can’t compare these since InsideEVs used 70 mph and Car and Driver used 75 mph. All of the owners here know how quickly efficiency drops with speed.

Edmunds tested both on their cycle and found a 50 mile difference between the two. Granted not 100, but still a significant difference

And here's a charge plot of GT. See how far it sits below the model S, whereas in the screenshot from @xponents the dream is slightly faster than the model S

 

[DeaneG]

Edmunds tested both on their cycle and found a 50 mile difference between the two. Granted not 100, but still a significant difference
View attachment 16954

The Dream, GT-P, and Sapphire's lithium cells are more expensive than those in the GT/Touring/Pure. Top-dollar cells for Lucid's highest-end products.