Charging curve logs post 2.1.52

[HariK]

Oops, ‘fatal exception error’ on my part, Bob. I should have stated 326 as my current 80% number, not 226! 226 is a real ‘yikes!’

Mine right now shows 264miles at 65%. That means 100% is 406 miles. Pretty much the same as when it was new. Lifetime average is 3.6 miles per kWh.

 

[HariK]

When you have to stop 3-4 times on a trip, the 10+ minute difference makes a huge difference. You become concerned with the minutia of minimum preconditioning times, efficiency at different speeds, and charging curve behavior to minimize time on the road waiting for a charge.

If you find enough chargers on a route, the way to minimize your total charging time and total travel time is the following strategy.
If you know that there is another charging station nearby, drive down to 20% and charge to about 70%. You will get close to 2kWh per min. on a 116kWh 50% is 58kWh. It may take 29min. If you set HA 72mph, you will average 65mph and get 3.4miles per kWh in GT. 3hrs 200miles stop for 29min. Or charge 20% to 60% and get more kWh per min. You will figure out what works for you. However, if you would like to drive non-stop as long as possible and stop as little as possible, then for sure a hybrid is the one to get. I personally like to stop once every 2.5 to 3hrs min 15min and lunch stop at least 45min. So, when I drive from the SF Bay area to LA, I leave home close to 100%, drive for 3hrs, 45min lunch stop and I can reach LA with at least 100 miles of range. For me, ICE car was exactly the same time.

 

[Lucken]

Mine right now shows 264miles at 65%. That means 100% is 406 miles. Pretty much the same as when it was new. Lifetime average is 3.6 miles per kWh.

Hari, dare I say you have a more 'robust' battery than I.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Hari, dare I say you have a more 'robust' battery than I.

Not really, Lucken. Hari's 264 / 65% = 406.2 and your 326 / 80% = 407.5. You are both doing great, and within rounding error on fractions of a %.

 

[Lucken]

And here I thought I was pretty decent at math. Thanks Bob for proving me wrong!

 

[Knucklehead]

Has it been shown that the GOM includes the impact of HVB state of health? In some cars, the GOM just defaults to the EPA range, with maybe adverse climate impacts included (like cold temperatures). Do we have proof of coloration between actual capacity and what is shown on the display (the GOM)?

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Has it been shown that the GOM includes the impact of HVB state of health? In some cars, the GOM just defaults to the EPA range, with maybe adverse climate impacts included (like cold temperatures). Do we have proof of coloration between actual capacity and what is shown on the display (the GOM)?

I'm pretty sure the system reads the available kWh, and then simply multiplies it by the car's EPA miles/kWh (around 4.5). So, should the battery degrade, the range on the main displays would degrade proportionally.

 

[Shuasha]

I'm pretty sure it

Has it been shown that the GOM includes the impact of HVB state of health? In some cars, the GOM just defaults to the EPA range, with maybe adverse climate impacts included (like cold temperatures). Do we have proof of coloration between actual capacity and what is shown on the display (the GOM)?

I'm pretty sure the system reads the available kWh, and then simply multiplies it by the car's EPA miles/kWh (around 4.5). So, should the battery degrade, the range on the main displays would degrade proportionally.

I don't think Lucid does any of that yet, unless something changed very recently.

 

[Shuasha]

I think in the overall trip difference eeas only a few minutes, at least from what I remember about that challenge that Out of Spec did. But they also hamstrung the Lucid from what I remember as well.

Back when they had it, the Lucid was usually hamstrung by Signet Surge. Then again, the Cayman would likely have the same problem.

 

[Knucklehead]

I'm pretty sure the system reads the available kWh, and then simply multiplies it by the car's EPA miles/kWh (around 4.5). So, should the battery degrade, the range on the main displays would degrade proportionally.

If this is correct, there should be members here with 1-2 year old Airs with significant mileage that are reporting measurably lower range on the GOM. Do we?

A 2-year-old BEV with 8-10% less range would be normal, so there should be owners with GOMs showing around 8% less range when compared to the new car. If we don't, then the GOM is not using Energy to Empty (EtE), it is using State of Charge (SoC) as the basis for what is shown.

Is there a way to measure EtE in a Lucid Air? Is there an API that can read it? If so, that is the best way to figure out the SoH. Charge the car to 100% and check the EtE. It will be less than new if the battery is a year old or more. Battery age is a big factor from what I have seen.

 

[Shuasha]

There is an unofficial API and some members wrote python scripts to use it. https://github.com/nshp/python-lucidmotors/tree/main

There is a max capacity stat that comes back, on a brand new GT it's 108 kWh. Search around on here, IIRC someone graphed results from lots of people.

 

[hydbob]

If this is correct, there should be members here with 1-2 year old Airs with significant mileage that are reporting measurably lower range on the GOM. Do we?

A 2-year-old BEV with 8-10% less range would be normal, so there should be owners with GOMs showing around 8% less range when compared to the new car. If we don't, then the GOM is not using Energy to Empty (EtE), it is using State of Charge (SoC) as the basis for what is shown.

Is there a way to measure EtE in a Lucid Air? Is there an API that can read it? If so, that is the best way to figure out the SoH. Charge the car to 100% and check the EtE. It will be less than new if the battery is a year old or more. Battery age is a big factor from what I have seen.

After 2.5 years my capacity read out at 107.5 and then I got a new battery that reads as 112.7 kwh. Extrapolate away!

 

[Buffalo Bob]

I believe that the nominal capacity of a new GT is 114 kWh, and the usable capacity is 112 kWh. Pretty consistent with hydbob's new battery. I think your 8%-10% degradation assumption after two years is pretty high. I can't speak to uber high mileage degradation, but several people on the forum report little change in the first year or two. Again, look at hydbob's numbers on his old battery. 4% degradation after 2.5 years, and I'm willing to bet his Lucid is not gathering dust in the garage!

 

[hydbob]

I believe that the nominal capacity of a new GT is 114 kWh, and the usable capacity is 112 kWh. Pretty consistent with hydbob's new battery. I think your 8%-10% degradation assumption after two years is pretty high. I can't speak to uber high mileage degradation, but several people on the forum report little change in the first year or two. Again, look at hydbob's numbers on his old battery. 4% degradation after 2.5 years, and I'm willing to bet his Lucid is not gathering dust in the garage!

Had 32k miles before they replaced it. Supposedly the Dreams came with a 118kwh pack...extrapolate some more!

 

[BS8899]

I stopped paying attention to the charging speed for different reasons. When I am on a long distance trip, I like to stop every 2.5 to 3hrs to get a charge regardless of the SoC. However, I find it useful to stop by chargers along the way and if they are open, just get some charge and keep going. When at home and the charging is free at EA, I just combine charging with a shopping visit at the local Walmart or Foodmax and stop at 80% max 85% and for long battery life, the studies indicate that the sweet spot is 50% to 80% because 50% is decent range and more than 80% is not needed for local trips. I see zero degradation in 15k miles in 15 months so far. Most of it was EA chargin

Had 32k miles before they replaced it. Supposedly the Dreams came with a 118kwh pack...extrapolate some more!

TO: @hydbob....why was your battery replaced?

 

[hydbob]

TO: @hydbob....why was your battery replaced?

Some inconsistent behavior according to the techs. No errors or anything, just pre-emptive replacement

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Had 32k miles before they replaced it. Supposedly the Dreams came with a 118kwh pack...extrapolate some more!

Ha! I don't dare extrapolate any further. I see that 118 kWh figure now in the press release. Aren't you a little surprised that your replacement battery topped out at 112.7 kWh, as I assume we car referencing usable capacity in both instances?

 

[hydbob]

Ha! I don't dare extrapolate any further. I see that 118 kWh figure now in the press release. Aren't you a little surprised that your replacement battery topped out at 112.7 kWh, as I assume we car referencing usable capacity in both instances?

That's my guess, but only Lucid knows what's really reported in the API. Whether or not there is a buffer, signs point towards yes from this API data plus a few conversations with Lucid engineers.

 

[BS8899]

That's my guess, but only Lucid knows what's really reported in the API. Whether or not there is a buffer, signs point towards yes from this API data plus a few conversations with Lucid engineers.

For your entertainment...2017 Tesla, used as a taxi. What's the achievable range after many years of rough use?

MSN

 

[Sandvinsd]

As a practical matter, aside from Cannonball runs, I doubt if many people drive more than 800 miles per day. With a Lucid AGT, 350 miles or less, no stops. 550 miles or less, 1 stop. 800 miles or less, 2 stops. Yes, it will take more time in an EV. But I don't see that as "Range Anxiety".

Bear in mind that most EVs are not Lucids. As such, the practical range is probably closer to 200-250 miles. With that, I think 400 mile (1 stop) and 600 mile (s stops) roadtrips are practical with proper planning.

I find that the Lucid is generally 200-250 miles between stops in my GT on 19” wheels. EPA range is 516, but in reality it is more like 400-425. Then charging from 20-80% gives you ~240 miles between stops.