Charging curve logs post 2.1.52

[joec]

Why do you need a larger sample size?

Because that’s how science works?

 

[momo3605]

That doesn't make any sense. You claimed that Tourings are throttled. Shane showed you differently. What's the conclusion? Something is wrong with your car or that the chargers near you are throttled? I'm not even sure what you are arguing here when compared to @Rogue charging curve, that @Shane_SLC showed you exactly the dropoff you'd expect based off the difference in battery voltages. There is no grand conspiracy here with Touring/Pure vs GTP/Dream/Sapphire. Physics is physics

My car charges at the same rate as Shane’s. Im not even talking about my car. Shane has posted multiple Touring curves at full powered 350kw stations. Rogue posted a full power GTP curve. And it’s 40-50% faster. Not 22% faster. This is literally dead simple

 

[borski]

Why do you need a larger sample size?

Because 1 is not a statistically significant sample. If that isn’t clear, I’m not sure what other phrasing to use to make it so.

 

[hydbob]

My car charges at the same rate as Shane’s. Im not even talking about my car. Shane has posted multiple Touring curves at full powered 350kw stations. Rogue posted a full power GTP curve. And it’s 40-50% faster. Not 22% faster. This is literally dead simple

Peak rates - Touring 80% of GTP
35% SOC - Touring is 77% of GTP
55% SOC - Touring is 83% of GTP

I'm still confused where you are getting 40-50%.

 

[momo3605]

Peak rates - Touring 80% of GTP
35% SOC - Touring is 77% of GTP
55% SOC - Touring is 83% of GTP

I'm still confused where you are getting 40-50%.

Here I drew it out. Is this clear? Rogue's GTP curve in blue...Shane's curve in orange

At 20% SOC, Touring is 58% of GTP (170/290)
At 30% SOC, Touring is 58% of GTP (147/250)
At 50% SOC, this is the absolute best the Touring does and is at 70% (111/155)
At 70% SOC, Touring is at 50% of GTP (75/150)

 

[hydbob]

Here I drew it out. Is this clear? Rogue's GTP curve in blue...Shane's curve in orange

At 20% SOC, Touring is 58% of GTP (170/290)
At 30% SOC, Touring is 58% of GTP (147/250)
At 50% SOC, this is the absolute best the Touring does and is at 70% (111/155)
At 70% SOC, Touring is at 50% of GTP (75/150)
View attachment 19399

Just looking at 30% SOC, Shane's kw is 182 not 147?

 

[momo3605]

Just looking at 30% SOC, Shane's kw is 182 not 147?

No, you're mixing up Volund's GT and Shane's Touring in his post. The Touring is at 147 at 30% SOC and the GT is at 182

 

[hydbob]

No, you're mixing up Volund's GT and Shane's Touring in his post. The Touring is at 147 at 30% SOC and the GT is at 182

Whoops, I take back my previous 3 posts

 

[Rogue]

If I ever make it through DC traffic, I'll have another charging curve to post starting at or below 5%. The car has been pretty consistent across multiple chargers though. Did not record those sessions, but the same percentages get roughly the same charging rate from memory.

 

[momo3605]

Whoops, I take back my previous 3 posts

So can we agree there is a grand conspiracy against the Pure/Touring?

jk...i know it's not a conspiracy, but i'm pretty sure it's just that Lucid isn't comfortable pushing Pure/Touring/GT batteries as hard as the GTP batteries and it probably has to do with the chemistry.

 

[kpbhat]

does the charging has anything to do with AC to DC conversion at the supply level? i am assuming they would have some battery packs there carrying some power which will be transferred to the car in DC while the battery gets charged from the grid?? if it is so, then, slow charging could be due to how much power is left on the supply side? AND if it is direct conversion either in our car or at the supply side, may be it gets limited due to demand vs supply at grid level?

 

[kpbhat]

does the charging has anything to do with AC to DC conversion at the supply level? i am assuming they would have some battery packs there carrying some power which will be transferred to the car in DC while the battery gets charged from the grid?? if it is so, then, slow charging could be due to how much power is left on the supply side? AND if it is direct conversion either in our car or at the supply side, may be it gets limited due to demand vs supply at grid level?

i think i found the answer here.
https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/th...ging utilizes commercial,in a bit more detail.

pretty good info.

 

[Rogue]

Alright, one more sample to pull from. Same location, different station, only 20 minutes of preconditioning, and ambient temperatures of 51F°.

6-10, 300-290
10-15, 290-275 (Charging Power Limited by Station)
15-20, 275-287.5
20-25, 285-275
25-30, 270-250
30-35, 250-225
35-40, 225-195
40-45, 195-175
45-50, 175-155
50-55, 155-145
55-60, 145-148
60-65, 148-148
65-70, 148-145
70-75, 145-140
75-80, 140-100
80-85, 100-75
85-90, 75-70
90+, Slow Speeds. Not waiting around for it this time.

Note: Fans cut off at 75%. Spin back up and down 2x. Then stay on.

Again, the charging curve has been pretty consistent. The GT was always a hit and miss, but the stations were hit and miss 4 months ago versus the vastly improved state (primarily no Signet surge). I do believe though the charging curve is superior in the GT-P by a large margin because we never stabilized around 150, much less pull around 300 consistently.

Maybe updates have improved things because we can arrive in the teens or 20's and pull 300 briefly as it steps down to the normal charging curve over 10-20%.

 

[HariK]

if the difference was 22% I’d have no issue, because that makes sense.

The issue is that pure/Tourings are getting 40-50% slower rates mid-upper SOC levels

I did not see that much difference in Pure/Touring vs DE/GT in all the data I collected at EA mostly because the EA is limitation

 

[momo3605]

Alright, one more sample to pull from. Same location, different station, only 20 minutes of preconditioning, and ambient temperatures of 51F°.

6-10, 300-290
10-15, 290-275 (Charging Power Limited by Station)
15-20, 275-287.5
20-25, 285-275
25-30, 270-250
30-35, 250-225
35-40, 225-195
40-45, 195-175
45-50, 175-155
50-55, 155-145
55-60, 145-148
60-65, 148-148
65-70, 148-145
70-75, 145-140
75-80, 140-100
80-85, 100-75
85-90, 75-70
90+, Slow Speeds. Not waiting around for it this time.

Note: Fans cut off at 75%. Spin back up and down 2x. Then stay on.

Again, the charging curve has been pretty consistent. The GT was always a hit and miss, but the stations were hit and miss 4 months ago versus the vastly improved state (primarily no Signet surge). I do believe though the charging curve is superior in the GT-P by a large margin because we never stabilized around 150, much less pull around 300 consistently.

Maybe updates have improved things because we can arrive in the teens or 20's and pull 300 briefly as it steps down to the normal charging curve over 10-20%.

How long would it have taken to charge to 80% with these last two charging sessions?

 

[Rogue]

How long would it have taken to charge to 80% with these last two charging sessions?

Important information I did not track. 40 minutes from 5-90%. There is a way to reverse engineer for the 5-80. Take the average charging rate per 5% investment then figure out 118*.05 to get kWh to then calculate how many minutes at that rate to get the 5% amount.

 

[momo3605]

Important information I did not track. 40 minutes from 5-90%. There is a way to reverse engineer for the 5-80. Take the average charging rate per 5% investment then figure out 118*.05 to get kWh to then calculate how many minutes at that rate to get the 5% amount.

ok, i think i have an easier way. So i calculate 9 minutes from 80%-90% based on an average charging rate of 80kw(per your last post) charging 11.8kwh of battery on the GTP, so that puts 5-80% at 31 minutes.

@Shane_SLC did you time your runs? I recall it's about 40 minutes for the Touring from 5-80% right?

 

[Shane_SLC]

ok, i think i have an easier way. So i calculate 9 minutes from 80%-90% based on an average charging rate of 80kw(per your last post) charging 11.8kwh of battery on the GTP, so that puts 5-80% at 31 minutes.

@Shane_SLC did you time your runs? I recall it's about 40 minutes for the Touring from 5-80% right?

The session is used for the comparison was about 39 minutes. The GT was 37 minutes even with the amperage limitation at the beginning. I'd guess 40 minutes should be about the average for a Touring barring any issues, and a few minutes less for a normal GT.

 

[Lucken]

So here we are jumping through hoops for a few minutes difference in total session charging time?

 

[Shane_SLC]

So here we are jumping through hoops for a few minutes difference in total session charging time?

Yep! For me, at least, it is all out of curiosity. All this charging analysis doesn't have much too much relevance in a real-world scenario. I just think it's interesting to see the differences between each trim.