Charging curve logs post 2.1.52

[Rogue]

So here we are jumping through hoops for a few minutes difference in total session charging time?

When you have to stop 3-4 times on a trip, the 10+ minute difference makes a huge difference. You become concerned with the minutia of minimum preconditioning times, efficiency at different speeds, and charging curve behavior to minimize time on the road waiting for a charge.

 

[Lucken]

When you have to stop 3-4 times on a trip, the 10+ minute difference makes a huge difference. You become concerned with the minutia of minimum preconditioning times, efficiency at different speeds, and charging curve behavior to minimize time on the road waiting for a charge.

True, but for those of us who rarely take these long trips by car, it’s much less of an issue.

 

[Bobby]

When you have to stop 3-4 times on a trip, the 10+ minute difference makes a huge difference. You become concerned with the minutia of minimum preconditioning times, efficiency at different speeds, and charging curve behavior to minimize time on the road waiting for a charge.

If stop duration is of extreme importance I’d respectfully suggest an ICE or hybrid vehicle.

 

[Rogue]

If stop duration is of extreme importance I’d respectfully suggest an ICE or hybrid vehicle.

We knew the tradeoffs with the Lucid. The range and charging curve are amongst the best on the market. Only the Porsche Taycan gets close, but the range is not as good or the efficiency.

No car gives you everything the Lucid does in one package: space, efficiency, performance, comfort, audio, etc etc. If the Lucid did not exist, we would not have bought an electric car. A Porsche 911 and Toyota Camry would be the cars in the driveway vs the current arrangement.

True, but for those of us who rarely take these long trips by car, it’s much less of an issue.

Agreed. I rarely get above 2 miles per kWh around the house. The ease of plugging in at next to nothing makes this thread obsolete. This thread is for the curious, and for those wanting to eek out the best of the car on long journeys.

 

[Bill55]

My guess would be that starting with a cold battery would "flatten" the curve, meaning your speeds at low SoC goes down and your speeds at a higher SoC goes up. With a slower starting speed I would think you'd be less thermally limited later in the curve, and thus potentially see a slightly higher speed. But could be degradation, outside temperature, or any number of other things!

Anecdotally, I find above to be accurate. In moderate to hot temperatures, I have found preconditioning the battery to have limited value, perhaps a few minutes at best. I have very limited experience charging at temperatures below 40.

 

[segbrk]

Here's another full Touring charging curve from the eclipse trip:

Charged 13-83% over about 45 minutes because that's how much of a break I wanted. Rate at 50% was 125kW. The screen in the car actually peaked at 245 kW when I first plugged in, but that was so brief it wasn't captured here. This was after a full 45-minute preconditioning.

Also, I had a nice 4.1 mi/kWh average over one 183-mile leg of the trip. Most legs were more like 3.7-3.8 though. I had A/C set to 71º the whole time and was doing a comfortable 70-80mph as traffic permitted - a reasonable speed for this coast. Not exactly hypermiling there. Mid-VT back to my house in VA only required two charging stops. The first leg leaving from my house with a 100% charge took me 3.5 hours to Newark, which is longer than I want to sit in a car anyway. I don't think I would stop any less frequently if I had a GT, I would probably just speed more.

 

[momo3605]

Also, I had a nice 4.1 mi/kWh average over one 183-mile leg of the trip. Most legs were more like 3.7-3.8 though. I had A/C set to 71º the whole time and was doing a comfortable 70-80mph as traffic permitted - a reasonable speed for this coast

19” wheels?

 

[segbrk]

19” wheels?

Correct. I kept the 19s on for that trip since it was below 40 up north.

 

[Volund]

We knew the tradeoffs with the Lucid. The range and charging curve are amongst the best on the market. Only the Porsche Taycan gets close, but the range is not as good or the efficiency.

No car gives you everything the Lucid does in one package: space, efficiency, performance, comfort, audio, etc etc. If the Lucid did not exist, we would not have bought an electric car. A Porsche 911 and Toyota Camry would be the cars in the driveway vs the current arrangement.


Agreed. I rarely get above 2 miles per kWh around the house. The ease of plugging in at next to nothing makes this thread obsolete. This thread is for the curious, and for those wanting to eek out the best of the car on long journeys.

Agreed, from what we have seen in the tests with Porsche versus Lucid point A to Point B charging tests.

The Porsche wins, by only a few minutes, and that's despite the Lucid not getting the charging curve that Lucid said we are supposed to get. Which means it's only uphill from here and theoretically we should be winning all speed tests once we get the full charging curve we're supposed to. Which will probably be after the charging networks figure their crap out

 

[Buffalo Bob]

I normally start charging my 2023 Pure AWD at around a 30%-35% SOC, and take it up to 82%. (If I go up to 82%, I find that it 'settles' at my target 80% within 1/4 mile.) What I find interesting is that, whether I'm at a 350 kWh or 150 kWh charger, it always takes right around 35 minutes. (I'm in AZ, so temperature is not really an issue, and I always pre-charge for at least 15 minutes.) Last night, I started charging at 21%, and was pleasantly surprised to see my initial rate at 227 kWh, and the charge took... 35 minutes! I guess it all makes a certain amount of sense, as the initial kWh goes up as the SOC goes down, and the curve is... the curve. Interesting to me how predictable the time required is, though.

 

[momo3605]

Agreed, from what we have seen in the tests with Porsche versus Lucid point A to Point B charging tests.

The Porsche wins, by only a few minutes, and that's despite the Lucid not getting the charging curve that Lucid said we are supposed to get. Which means it's only uphill from here and theoretically we should be winning all speed tests once we get the full charging curve we're supposed to. Which will probably be after the charging networks figure their crap out

Is 18 vs 35 minutes only a few minutes? Seems like Taycan is twice as fast. Anyway lucid has a lot of utility that the Taycan doesn’t, but from a charging perspective, it’s not even close

 

[Shuasha]

Agreed, from what we have seen in the tests with Porsche versus Lucid point A to Point B charging tests.

The Porsche wins, by only a few minutes, and that's despite the Lucid not getting the charging curve that Lucid said we are supposed to get. Which means it's only uphill from here and theoretically we should be winning all speed tests once we get the full charging curve we're supposed to. Which will probably be after the charging networks figure their crap out

We'll never beat the charging curve of a Taycan.. it's something Porsche REALLY focused on and they overbuilt the cooling system to make sure temps stay low.

 

[BS8899]

I normally start charging my 2023 Pure AWD at around a 30%-35% SOC, and take it up to 82%. (If I go up to 82%, I find that it 'settles' at my target 80% within 1/4 mile.) What I find interesting is that, whether I'm at a 350 kWh or 150 kWh charger, it always takes right around 35 minutes. (I'm in AZ, so temperature is not really an issue, and I always pre-charge for at least 15 minutes.) Last night, I started charging at 21%, and was pleasantly surprised to see my initial rate at 227 kWh, and the charge took... 35 minutes! I guess it all makes a certain amount of sense, as the initial kWh goes up as the SOC goes down, and the curve is... the curve. Interesting to me how predictable the time required is, though.

On my long roadtrips (Phoenix to Marin County, CA, 780miles), I typically start with 100% SoC from home. Make two charging stops. Typically charging from 15% to 80%. Takes ~40min each. Compare to an ICE car (including hybrid and PHEV), I also have to make 2 fuel stops. Each stop taking ~10m (gas and bathroom). Thus, the adding time to travel is 1hr-1.15hrs. There is no getting around it. I think it is an acceptable compromise for driving an EV. With my charging cadence, I found little to no differences between 350KW and 150KW chargers in terms of the actual time spent. Key is finding an unoccupied charger.

 

[BS8899]

On my long roadtrips (Phoenix to Marin County, CA, 780miles), I typically start with 100% SoC from home. Make two charging stops. Typically charging from 15% to 80%. Takes ~40min each. Compare to an ICE car (including hybrid and PHEV), I also have to make 2 fuel stops. Each stop taking ~10m (gas and bathroom). Thus, the adding time to travel is 1hr-1.15hrs. There is no getting around it. I think it is an acceptable compromise for driving an EV. With my charging cadence, I found little to no differences between 350KW and 150KW chargers in terms of the actual time spent. Key is finding an unoccupied charger.

As a practical matter, aside from Cannonball runs, I doubt if many people drive more than 800 miles per day. With a Lucid AGT, 350 miles or less, no stops. 550 miles or less, 1 stop. 800 miles or less, 2 stops. Yes, it will take more time in an EV. But I don't see that as "Range Anxiety".

Bear in mind that most EVs are not Lucids. As such, the practical range is probably closer to 200-250 miles. With that, I think 400 mile (1 stop) and 600 mile (s stops) roadtrips are practical with proper planning.

 

[HariK]

I stopped paying attention to the charging speed for different reasons. When I am on a long distance trip, I like to stop every 2.5 to 3hrs to get a charge regardless of the SoC. However, I find it useful to stop by chargers along the way and if they are open, just get some charge and keep going. When at home and the charging is free at EA, I just combine charging with a shopping visit at the local Walmart or Foodmax and stop at 80% max 85% and for long battery life, the studies indicate that the sweet spot is 50% to 80% because 50% is decent range and more than 80% is not needed for local trips. I see zero degradation in 15k miles in 15 months so far. Most of it was EA charging.

 

[Lucken]

I stopped paying attention to the charging speed for different reasons. When I am on a long distance trip, I like to stop every 2.5 to 3hrs to get a charge regardless of the SoC. However, I find it useful to stop by chargers along the way and if they are open, just get some charge and keep going. When at home and the charging is free at EA, I just combine charging with a shopping visit at the local Walmart or Foodmax and stop at 80% max 85% and for long battery life, the studies indicate that the sweet spot is 50% to 80% because 50% is decent range and more than 80% is not needed for local trips. I see zero degradation in 15k miles in 15 months so far. Most of it was EA charging.

Zero degradation is impressive, Hari. When you charge to 80%, how many miles show up on your range indicator? When new I was at 334 IIRC at 80% and now I’m at 226 after 5,000+ miles. So it would appear I’ve lost some range.

 

[hydbob]

Is 18 vs 35 minutes only a few minutes? Seems like Taycan is twice as fast. Anyway lucid has a lot of utility that the Taycan doesn’t, but from a charging perspective, it’s not even close

I think in the overall trip difference eeas only a few minutes, at least from what I remember about that challenge that Out of Spec did. But they also hamstrung the Lucid from what I remember as well.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Zero degradation is impressive, Hari. When you charge to 80%, how many miles show up on your range indicator? When new I was at 334 IIRC at 80% and now I’m at 226 after 5,000+ miles. So it would appear I’ve lost some range.

Wow. I would think that is indicative of a problem. The 334 when new sounds spot on, but you are referencing a 32.3% degradation, While I'm only at 2,400 miles on my Pure AWD, any degradation I have so far gets lost in rounding error. I would suggest that you have that checked out.

 

[Lucken]

Wow. I would think that is indicative of a problem. The 334 when new sounds spot on, but you are referencing a 32.3% degradation, While I'm only at 2,400 miles on my Pure AWD, any degradation I have so far gets lost in rounding error. I would suggest that you have that checked out.

Oops, ‘fatal exception error’ on my part, Bob. I should have stated 326 as my current 80% number, not 226! 226 is a real ‘yikes!’

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Oops, ‘fatal exception error’ on my part, Bob. I should have stated 326 as my current 80% number, not 226! 226 is a real ‘yikes!’

Well, that's a horse of a different color! I think that's a pretty normal (if not better) level of degradation at 5,000 miles. As Emily Litella (Gilda Radner) used to say on SNL... "Never mind."