Electrify America is enraging EV owners

[hmp10]

Do these heavily-followed people use a caveat that if you are home charging the majority of the time, then it doesn't make a difference?

In the videos I've seen, they always make their comments in the context of whether the buyer intends to road trip in the car.

While I home charge and find it one of the most appealing aspects of EV ownership, there are two large groups of potential buyers for whom this is not enough: (1) people who live in apartments and condos where home charging is not available, and (2) people who, even if the great bulk of their driving is local, will not buy a car if they think it will pose issues with road tripping. This latter group would also contain people for whom an EV will be their only car.

If Lucid decides to settle for trying to sell cars only to people who have home charging and who don't plan to take them on road trips, then I fear their fate as an automotive maker is cast.

 

[joec]

Your view is completely understandable and why I so worry about what EA is doing to Lucid's reputation.

Even heavily-followed people such as Marquess Brownlee, who recognize that Lucid makes a better car than Tesla, are going so far as recommending that EV buyers still go with Tesla until the CCS charging issues are addressed.

I like Marques, but I still think that's a stupid assessment. Same for the Out of Spec guys. They are making blanket statements based on a few days or weeks with a car, using it in a way that the average person just doesn't drive.

I've taken road trips with both a Tesla and a Lucid. The Lucid provided a massively better road tripping experience in every way.

I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people know EA is not providing the best experience, and that they should do their research about the chargers in the places they tend to drive. But extrapolating that into "Go buy a Tesla" is just bad advice, if you ask me.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I've taken road trips with both a Tesla and a Lucid. The Lucid provided a massively better road tripping experience in every way.

Likewise, 100%. That is why it is going to be hard for Dave Connor to find replacement current road trip EV. He will have to wait a year or 2 consortium to help out infrastructure. Clearly EA cannot keep up with CCS EV sales.

 

[JeffB]

In the videos I've seen, they always make their comments in the context of whether the buyer intends to road trip in the car.

While I home charge and find it one of the most appealing aspects of EV ownership, there are two large groups of potential buyers for whom this is not enough: (1) people who live in apartments and condos where home charging is not available, and (2) people who, even if the great bulk of their driving is local, will not buy a car if they think it will pose issues with road tripping. This latter group would also contain people for whom an EV will be their only car.

If Lucid decides to settle for trying to sell cars only to people who have home charging and who don't plan to take them on road trips, then I fear their fate as an automotive maker is cast.

Unfortunately, I have to agree about EA giving not just Lucid but the whole electric car industry a VERY BAD name. On 2 road trips with my Lucid AT I have limped into chargers (i.e. Chargepoint) because the EA chargers were either down or the waiting line was measured in hours (just to start charging). What is even more infuriating is that often 1-2 charges out of 4 are out of service contributing to the long wait times. I have now taken to sending email to EA ([email protected]) at any outage I come across. Every time I run into a technician, they tell me "parts availability" is the problem. I would venture to guess that "parts reliability" is another key factor. There is a charger near me that has 2 units constantly down.

After driving a Tesla MS for 7 years and only once (early on) did I have an issue with finding a charger, this issue is beyond annoying. I have a 1600 mile roundtrip coming up which I dread given how many charges I am going to need.

Adding to the Lucid nightmare is that the EA chargers are overflowing. Does anyone remember the Mel Brooks movie "The Producers" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Producers_(2005_film)) For those who do not, the premise of the movie is that the producers sell more shares in a play (i.e. 1000%) and try to produce a flop so nobody wants their money. Then they all go to jail because the play is a hit. EA is doing the same thing by contracting with all the manufacturers (i.e. Hyundai, Mercedes, Audi, Lucid, etc.) to offer free charging but has not ramped capacity to enable anyone to get it. we are playing for their poor business practices...

FYI, most chargers have availability at 4:00 am.

 

[hmp10]

I've taken road trips with both a Tesla and a Lucid. The Lucid provided a massively better road tripping experience in every way.

I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people know EA is not providing the best experience, and that they should do their research about the chargers in the places they tend to drive. But extrapolating that into "Go buy a Tesla" is just bad advice, if you ask me.

I, too, own both a Tesla and a Lucid and find the Lucid far the better car in every way -- and that many of those ways are particularly relevant for road tripping: better handling, more room, quieter, better riding, more luxury features.

But I have more trouble pushing aside the charging experiences we've had on the road with the Lucid. We weren't trying to beat a clock on our road trips and, since I was interested in really understanding what the EA network was like, we took the time at each charging stop to see the effort to a conclusion. This included spending 79 minutes on the phone with EA during a driving rainstorm in Pooler, GA, trying to get charging to initiate and continue. This included a more than two-hour wait while the whole EA charging site was down for "maintenance" in the middle of the day in Charleston, SC while a line was forming by people waiting to charge. This included trying to help a poor guy get charging started on a Lucid when he showed up at the Brunswick, GA station with 16 miles of range remaining. This included having to try a different cable at least once at every stop we made.

This also included another experiment I ran one day while killing time in an airport cell phone lot during a flight delay. I went to a nearby ChargePoint station to find the cable was not long enough to connect to the Lucid unless I straddled two parking spaces. Then, after creating an account and trying several times to initiate charging, I wound up on the phone with their customer service for more than 15 minutes before the rep finally realized the station was actually out of order.

This has left me convinced that, on any trip in which time matters and which is further away than the Lucid's generous round-trip range, I'm better off taking either our Tesla or our Honda minivan.

Fortunately, we have three cars. But, as huge a fan as I am of the Lucid riding and driving experience (best of any car I've ever owned), I would not buy a Lucid as a sole car in the current morass of CCS charging issues.

I still plan to replace our Odyssey with a Lucid Gravity late next year, but I have accepted that, unless the CCS situation improves in the meantime, we'll have to rent an ICE minivan when family comes over from Poland for our yearly road tours.

 

[Volund]

Do these heavily-followed people use a caveat that if you are home charging the majority of the time, then it doesn't make a difference?

Look at Part 2 of Out of Spec race to Vegas video posted yesterday. I made a separate thread. There's some very notable comments in that video, especially at the end of the video that talk about the issues

 

[Keithmaj]

Do these heavily-followed people use a caveat that if you are home charging the majority of the time, then it doesn't make a difference?

Recent reading that I have done says 60% to 80% of EV owners charge at home, plus you have a growing number of L2 chargers at businesses all of which lessen the need for DCFC. Also need to factor in an owner’s usage regimen on frequency of daily usage versus road-tripping…

 

[mardin]

Helps to have a lead pit crew making sure your trip goes smoothly.

Just got off the phone with EA because the thread reminded me to call about the Greenville, AL location. The individual noted most people do not call and simply switch stations. Therefore, they have no idea (blows my mind nothing notifies but here we are).

The answer from EA is to call. They will send out technicians to triage and fix.

In Californi, EA has to fly in technicians from Texas to fix units. There are simple not enough trained and certified repair persons

 

[mardin]

I don't know what everyone is talking about, Here is a link to a video of the new CEO of Electrocute America driving coast to coast without any problems at their Charging Stations......:

We must be doing something wrong !

Do they really think we're are that dumb to believe that hype. If you're the CEO don't you get a red carpet to the next well functioning connection?

Hold tight @GMan . I agree with you!! I think you may have jumped to a conclusion I did not make. We are not really in disagreement. I apologize if I was not clear. I understand and do not deny range anxiety. In fact, the Lucid range was a key part of my decision to buy. I love the range. It's a huge selling point. We have a home in the mtns, and the RT range is perfect. And I agree that easy convenient fast charging would add immensely to the Lucid. I look forward to it. I "believe" it will come. But the lack of it now does not lessen my Lucid.

My comments were directed at those that blamed Lucid for shitty EA experiences and/or relegated the Lucid to a long distance cross country highway crusier - and because of EA issues on trips, the Lucid was a lesser car.

Back to range anxiety. It's fascinating subject. My friends in California on their third or fourth BEV all warned me about. And correctly said it will disapate with my time with the car. But I tend to agree with the plethora of scholarly articles on it that the intense worry can be overblown. It's humane nature. FOMO. I remember people standing in lines for hours topping up their cars with a gallon of gas during the first oil crisis when their tanks were already 80% full. And I have friends now with BEVs that religiousl charge every night even when their SOC is 75%. I think hope and believe that the more and better charging will alieve this. As well as quality home charging.

I know you may disagree, but I wonder if the anger over fast charging has a bitbgotten overblown. Does everyone really need it or just think they do. I have friends with EVs that have never used a fast charger in years, and travel around Colorado and love their BEV. I have friends that travel LD and use fast charging daily. Is it all a matter of perception? Musk was brilliant early on knowing that lack of public fast charging was a hinderance to Tesla sales. He fixed that and sold lots of cars. My point in talking about trip length in the US was just trying to add perspective.

It's not really about fast charging... But about reliable charging. A working 150 is a wet dream. Enuf said

 

[mardin]

I am sorry some folks have had this experience. In all my experiences to date, I have found one out of order EA charger. I had to move over to the next charger. In town, I just charge overnight at hoe where night time power is free.

That works if your near home only

 

[mardin]

Do these heavily-followed people use a caveat that if you are home charging the majority of the time, then it doesn't make a difference?

Bob this is a worn out argument.. many people can't be at home all the time. We travel further than a full charge round trip. An away from home charge can't simply be ignored.. That's unrealistic wishful thinking

 

[mardin]

In the videos I've seen, they always make their comments in the context of whether the buyer intends to road trip in the car.

While I home charge and find it one of the most appealing aspects of EV ownership, there are two large groups of potential buyers for whom this is not enough: (1) people who live in apartments and condos where home charging is not available, and (2) people who, even if the great bulk of their driving is local, will not buy a car if they think it will pose issues with road tripping. This latter group would also contain people for whom an EV will be their only car.

If Lucid decides to settle for trying to sell cars only to people who have home charging and who don't plan to take them on road trips, then I fear their fate as an automotive maker is cast.

Agree and who needs a luxury grocery shopper? Buy a slapped together Tesla instead

 

[Flybynight]

Tangential to the EA issues, I've had good experiences with EVGO chargers in terms of availability and pushing power pretty consistently.
EA is a crapshoot. Some of the ones near my home (Boston) were awful, but a bank in King of Prussia (PA) that I used to charge up before and after a road trip, were excellent.
I hope the charging infrastructure continues to improve and that I eventually don't need a separate app for every charging company.

 

[mardin]

Agree and who needs a luxury grocery shopper? Buy a slapped together Tesla instead

If I offended any Tesla owners I promise to wave to the next three Teslas I see

 

[hydbob]

Bob this is a worn out argument.. many people can't be at home all the time. We travel further than a full charge round trip. An away from home charge can't simply be ignored.. That's unrealistic wishful thinking

I'm not saying it should be ignored but thr narrative that it's a showstopper for owning a non-Tesla EV is disingenuous.

 

[ChipEdwards]

Do they really think we're are that dumb to believe that hype. If you're the CEO don't you get a red carpet to the next well functioning connection?

It's not really about fast charging... But about reliable charging. A working 150 is a wet dream. Enuf said

Well, I just got 6 150 brand new Signets at a new EA location in eastern Jefferson County Ky (Louisville). 2 are already inoperative, one gave me 150kw (15%SOC and preconditioned battery) fro about 5 minutes and then started bouncing from 60 to 100 before settling ay a bounce from 40 to 80. I have seen this signet shuffle in 5 states and it. is beyond me that they can't figure out a repair. Any road trip will result in more charging time than you might plan, IF the chargers are working. Not a reasonable situation.

 

[GMan]

Just got off the phone with EA because the thread reminded me to call about the Greenville, AL location. The individual noted most people do not call and simply switch stations. Therefore, they have no idea (blows my mind nothing notifies but here we are).

The answer from EA is to call. They will send out technicians to triage and fix.

It may be the case that people do call, but they hang up after extensive wait times and before speaking to someone to report.

You can use the EA App to report an issue without waiting. However, reporting the issue thru the app will not be addressed realtime.

 

[austinlucid]

Obviously there will be tons of changes in the charging space in the coming years, but regardless of your thoughts toward Tesla (or Musk) you really have to hand it to them to see how prescient (and correct) they were in realizing how critical charging infrastructure would be, and building out their best-in-class network nearly from the get-go.
I'm not an economist, but when you see how generally unreliable EA chargers are, I always say "look at the incentives". Tesla has gigantic incentives to ensure their Supercharger network is operating well - it as a primary selling point for their primary products, their cars.
EA, on the other hand, was basically forced into creation as a penalty for VW's diesel frauds - it's not surprising that their corporate culture is basically "just do the bare minimum".
With the transition to electric as clear as day (California banning ICE cars in 2035), I'm just really, really surprised that more car companies haven't tried to build out their own networks, or at least have a consortium to buy an existing one. E.g. with GM and Rivian hitching their wagon to Tesla's network, seems like a lot of companies are making the same mistake as IBM in the early 80s with Microsoft: discounting the critical importance of the "operating system" compared to the hardware.

 

[hmp10]

I'm just really, really surprised that more car companies haven't tried to build out their own networks . . . .

I'm even more surprised that more gas stations aren't beginning to get in the EV charging game.

 

[quantum]

I like Marques, but I still think that's a stupid assessment. Same for the Out of Spec guys. They are making blanket statements based on a few days or weeks with a car, using it in a way that the average person just doesn't drive.

I've taken road trips with both a Tesla and a Lucid. The Lucid provided a massively better road tripping experience in every way.

I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people know EA is not providing the best experience, and that they should do their research about the chargers in the places they tend to drive. But extrapolating that into "Go buy a Tesla" is just bad advice, if you ask me.

Agree, those out of spec guys know there is a signet charger issue. Why not plan a trip avoid those chargers? They want likes from Tesla fanboys....that makes them a lot of money!