Electrify America Overpriced?

[Daniel2022AT]

The two answers to the OP’s original question about why drive an EV are: 1. To save money. But, you must charge at home. 2. To have fun with a really great vehicle, enjoy it as a once in a lifetime technology shift in the realm of personal transportation. My Lucid is the best car I ever owned. Including my BMW M5.

Two further comments.

A. Many people buy EV’s to save money. My sister has a Chevy Bolt. Probably the all time best use case. She drives 100 miles per day to babysit her grandkids. 4 mi/kWh, $.10/kWh with a time of use rate to charge overnight, she saves hundreds per month. The car cost maybe $22k. Urban/suburban use and charge at home is THE use case for saving money. I think it’s a cute car. Silly stupid old battery tech but that’s a different topic. Home solar is another very cool opportunity to save even more in some regions.

B. Fast charging for road trips in my experience is getting worse not better. EV sales are growing the EV fleet faster than charging capacity is. I have never failed to get a decent charge at an EA station after 16 months and 10,000 miles of many long distance road trips and dozens of charges (Midwest region and Midwest to Florida). I plan ahead using PlugShare, but I did have wait wait 1 hour once. Until Tesla chargers become widely available this will get worse before it gets better. The economics of fast charging are horrible on all sides of the equation. Govt subsidies are mismanaged and not helping. It is discouraging my plans for future road trips. Large EV’s with lower efficiency make less sense to me right now. I will trade in my Air for the new midsized model ASAP and use our ICE vehicles for road trips.

 

[Andretex]

The two answers to the OP’s original question about why drive an EV are: 1. To save money. But, you must charge at home. 2. To have fun with a really great vehicle, enjoy it as a once in a lifetime technology shift in the realm of personal transportation. My Lucid is the best car I ever owned. Including my BMW M5.

Two further comments.

A. Many people buy EV’s to save money. My sister has a Chevy Bolt. Probably the all time best use case. She drives 100 miles per day to babysit her grandkids. 4 mi/kWh, $.10/kWh with a time of use rate to charge overnight, she saves hundreds per month. The car cost maybe $22k. Urban/suburban use and charge at home is THE use case for saving money. I think it’s a cute car. Silly stupid old battery tech but that’s a different topic. Home solar is another very cool opportunity to save even more in some regions.

B. Fast charging for road trips in my experience is getting worse not better. EV sales are growing the EV fleet faster than charging capacity is. I have never failed to get a decent charge at an EA station after 16 months and 10,000 miles of many long distance road trips and dozens of charges (Midwest region and Midwest to Florida). I plan ahead using PlugShare, but I did have wait wait 1 hour once. Until Tesla chargers become widely available this will get worse before it gets better. The economics of fast charging are horrible on all sides of the equation. Govt subsidies are mismanaged and not helping. It is discouraging my plans for future road trips. Large EV’s with lower efficiency make less sense to me right now. I will trade in my Air for the new midsized model ASAP and use our ICE vehicles for road trips.

I agree except for the last sentence.

If you are looking to save money, Lucid is not your choice. Yes it is efficient. But it is efficient so you have larger range, not to save money. But compared to my old 7 series BMW, I like that I save money on cost per mile.

I also have a Bolt for my son. That is the BEST electric car if your goal is to save money. I just love that car also - for different reasons.

I plan on keeping my Air and getting the Gravity. These cars just drive too nice!

 

[Daniel2022AT]

My point about large inefficient EV’s is not a comment about the Lucid Air, which is a wonderful, amazing, highly efficient EV. The problem is the Ford Lightnings, GM Hummers, Porsche Taycans that are so inefficient they are actually consuming fast charging capacity at EA sites, clogging it up for the rest of us. This is a systemic problem. I think the Rivian R1S is super cool. But at 2.1 mi/kWh it just does not make any sense as a road trip vehicle.

 

[joec]

I also have a Bolt for my son. That is the BEST electric car if your goal is to save money. I just love that car also - for different reasons.

The Bolt is a wonderful little car. I really wish they hadn’t stopped making it.

 

[DeaneG]

Are you able to add and remove Pass + in the EA app?

Yes, that's the only way to do it. It's not intuitive in the app though.

 

[hmp10]

Okay, I’m going to try to stay calmer than last evening, but here’s a report on today’s travels with Electrify America.

We began the day with a top-off charge at Brunswick, GA. Again, as soon as we plugged in we got the red “Authentication Error” message with an instruction to unplug and plug back in. This time we were able to unplug without having to double-click the key fob. (Just as yesterday when the plug would not release three times, I was sitting in the car while my partner got out to plug in, thus leaving the doors unlocked.)

Our next charging stop was at Pooler, GA (near Savannah) for a full charge. The first station we tried (a 350-kW one) was out of service. When another (150-kW) came open, we took it. Again, the “Authentication Error”, and we had to use the Lucid app to start the session. The charging speed never topped 95 kW, even though we preconditioned and started at 27% charge. While we were there, a Hummer EV pulled in. We watched the driver spend 8 minutes trying to start his charging session before he finally succeeded, after swiping two cards several times and calling someone (probably EA). While this was going on, it started to rain.

Our third charging stop was at Florence, SC. Only one cable was open and that was at a station with two cables, but only one car could charge at a time. So we had to wait about 15 minutes before the Mustang MachE on the other cable finished charging. Again, the “Authentication Error” and the need to use the Lucid app to start the session. When we finally got it going we sat in the car about five minutes with everything seeming fine. So we got out to walk over to the WalMart to use the restroom and get something to drink. I checked the app just as I walked into the store and saw that the charging session had terminated with the charge at 48%. So we had to go back to the car, unplug, plug back in, and restart the session. It had just started to drizzle rain, so we put our bladders on hold and stayed in the car until the charging session finished.

In six charging stops in two days, we have yet to just plug into a cable, have the connection authenticate, the charging session start, and have it run to completion with interruption. Every charging session is a lengthy and frustrating improvisation of some sort or another.

On an unrelated note: we’ve seen five Lucid Airs (including ours) on this trip, one MB EQS, and no Taycans.

 

[hmp10]

Did you input your issues to Plugshare?

No. I was too angry to write without rancor.

And now I’m getting close to the point of just not caring anymore. I’m seriously considering canning plans to replace our Odyssey with a Gravity and just take our Air on trips that I can do with home charging only.

A few months ago I was ready to become an all-EV household. No longer. What I’ve got to decide is if I want to keep the Odyssey as well as buy the Gravity, thus having four vehicles in a 2-person household. Seems kind of stupid, actually.

 

[hmp10]

The Bolt is a wonderful little car. I really wish they hadn’t stopped making it.

A friend has a Bolt EUV (a post-battery-issue model) and absolutely loves it. But I thought GM decided to put it back in production?

 

[segbrk]

Okay, I’m going to try to stay calmer than last evening, but here’s a report on today’s travels with Electrify America.

We began the day with a top-off charge at Brunswick, GA. Again, as soon as we plugged in we got the red “Authentication Error” message with an instruction to unplug and plug back in. This time we were able to unplug without having to double-click the key fob. (Just as yesterday when the plug would not release three times, I was sitting in the car while my partner got out to plug in, thus leaving the doors unlocked.)

Our next charging stop was at Pooler, GA (near Savannah) for a full charge. The first station we tried (a 350-kW one) was out of service. When another (150-kW) came open, we took it. Again, the “Authentication Error”, and we had to use the Lucid app to start the session. The charging speed never topped 95 kW, even though we preconditioned and started at 27% charge. While we were there, a Hummer EV pulled in. We watched the driver spend 8 minutes trying to start his charging session before he finally succeeded, after swiping two cards several times and calling someone (probably EA). While this was going on, it started to rain.

Our third charging stop was at Florence, SC. Only one cable was open and that was at a station with two cables, but only one car could charge at a time. So we had to wait about 15 minutes before the Mustang MachE on the other cable finished charging. Again, the “Authentication Error” and the need to use the Lucid app to start the session. When we finally got it going we sat in the car about five minutes with everything seeming fine. So we got out to walk over to the WalMart to use the restroom and get something to drink. I checked the app just as I walked into the store and saw that the charging session had terminated with the charge at 48%. So we had to go back to the car, unplug, plug back in, and restart the session. It had just started to drizzle rain, so we put our bladders on hold and stayed in the car until the charging session finished.

In six charging stops in two days, we have yet to just plug into a cable, have the connection authenticate, the charging session start, and have it run to completion with interruption. Every charging session is a lengthy and frustrating improvisation of some sort or another.

On an unrelated note: we’ve seen five Lucid Airs (including ours) on this trip, one MB EQS, and no Taycans.

I’m starting to wonder if you have a problem with your Wunderbox. EA has been largely seamless for me, and I was using it almost weekly for my first six months with the car. I’ve had an authentication error maybe three times ever that was solved by using the Lucid app. Never had a charge stop in the middle. Station downtime was an issue, but it was almost always indicated on Plugshare. I didn’t even use the EA app, so not sure about that.

 

[DeaneG]

... I’m seriously considering canning plans to replace our Odyssey with a Gravity and just take our Air on trips that I can do with home charging only...

I have high hopes for the Alpitronic/Starbucks/Mercedes collaboration. Aplitronic's mean time between repair truck rolls for a given charging station is 20 months! But this new build out will need a few years before it substantially improves the charging situation.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Okay, I’m going to try to stay calmer than last evening, but here’s a report on today’s travels with Electrify America.

We began the day with a top-off charge at Brunswick, GA. Again, as soon as we plugged in we got the red “Authentication Error” message with an instruction to unplug and plug back in. This time we were able to unplug without having to double-click the key fob. (Just as yesterday when the plug would not release three times, I was sitting in the car while my partner got out to plug in, thus leaving the doors unlocked.)

Our next charging stop was at Pooler, GA (near Savannah) for a full charge. The first station we tried (a 350-kW one) was out of service. When another (150-kW) came open, we took it. Again, the “Authentication Error”, and we had to use the Lucid app to start the session. The charging speed never topped 95 kW, even though we preconditioned and started at 27% charge. While we were there, a Hummer EV pulled in. We watched the driver spend 8 minutes trying to start his charging session before he finally succeeded, after swiping two cards several times and calling someone (probably EA). While this was going on, it started to rain.

Our third charging stop was at Florence, SC. Only one cable was open and that was at a station with two cables, but only one car could charge at a time. So we had to wait about 15 minutes before the Mustang MachE on the other cable finished charging. Again, the “Authentication Error” and the need to use the Lucid app to start the session. When we finally got it going we sat in the car about five minutes with everything seeming fine. So we got out to walk over to the WalMart to use the restroom and get something to drink. I checked the app just as I walked into the store and saw that the charging session had terminated with the charge at 48%. So we had to go back to the car, unplug, plug back in, and restart the session. It had just started to drizzle rain, so we put our bladders on hold and stayed in the car until the charging session finished.

In six charging stops in two days, we have yet to just plug into a cable, have the connection authenticate, the charging session start, and have it run to completion with interruption. Every charging session is a lengthy and frustrating improvisation of some sort or another.

On an unrelated note: we’ve seen five Lucid Airs (including ours) on this trip, one MB EQS, and no Taycans.

Sounds a lot like my last trip with the Lucid in April traveling from San Diego to Austin. I had so many issues trying to charge, I abandoned the Lucid in favor of our Toyota Sienna on the trip cross country in August.

 

[kort6776]

I have recently used some of the chargers being referred to.
Pooler GA is fairly well known as being troublesome. however other than congestion issues I have never not been able to get a charge there.
Florence SC usually is a good place to charge, however like many chargers there can be issues caused by congestion.

on my recent road trip where I made about 6 charging stops there were only two instances where plug and charge failed to work but I was able to get the charge started via the lucid ap.
one charger that failed to initiate on plug and charge did accept plug and charge when I did a charge there a couple of days later.

if you are consistently having issues with the EA chargers, contact Lucid support, there could be either software or hardware issues with your car.

lastly try using another network to see if the issues connecting occur.

 

[Pragmatic]

To answer the title of this thread, I'd have to say no. If they were they wouldn't be so crowded.

 

[hmp10]

I’m beginning to wonder if some of the problems aren’t with the car. Last night I set the charge limit to 80% before plugging into a ChargePoint Level 2 charger at the hotel. When I woke up this morning there was an alert on my phone saying the car was charged beyond the charge limit. I checked the Lucid app and, sure enough, the charge was at 85% even though it was indicating the limit was set at 80%.

I just called our Mobile Tech to ask him if this could be a Wunderbox problem. It was the first time he had ever heard of a charge over limit, and he told me that the Wunderbox had been replaced when we got a new HV battery, rear drive unit, and charging cable a few months ago, so we have all the latest hardware. He’s going to add a full charging system check to the service ticket that is already waiting for us to return home and get the frunk latch replaced.

He added, however, that they’re seeing a flood of issue reports with Electrify America right now.

 

[victoryroad]

Interesting statistics Beagle about the cost of an EA station. There are two local 350 stations in my area and they are almost always busy. Even very early in the morning or late in the evening. However, my observation is most of the cars there are using the "free" feature they were given when they bought their EV's. So now I'm wondering how the stations will survive once all the free charging is over. These two locations aren't really located where road trippers would seek them out; more about the local folks.

Yes, interesting cost estimates for EA's operations. What do you suppose EA has negotiated with the power suppliers per kWh? Would Lucid not pay EA for usage under the "free" charging plans for some of us? No doubt Lucid has negotiated a much better than the retail rate per kWh, but AE surely is not providing power for free.

 

[Halodde]

To answer the title of this thread, I'd have to say no. If they were they wouldn't be so crowded.

I think they are crowded because of all the people (like us) who got free charging with their cars for X number of years.

People who can't charge at home are using them exclusively. People who don't want to pay for home charging are sometimes doing the same. I was trying to charge Friday at my local EA because my scheduled charge did not work Thursday night and I woke up to a 16% SOC which wasn't sufficient for my work day obviously. There were only 2 of 4 working chargers there which is rare. A Rivian was parked, locked and charging and I assumed the driver was shopping in Walmart. There was also an Ioniq charging while the driver was asleep in the car. There were as many as 5 cars waiting to charge including me at various times. As I was waiting for one of the cars charging to finish and leave (both over 80% SOC), a VW Tiguan pulled up and a woman got out of the passenger side, walked over and opened the rivian and then back and forth between the VW and Rivian for another 5 minutes. Then she sat in the Rivian for about another 10 minutes before unplugging and leaving. The point here is that she probably lived close by and dropped her rivian off to charge, having someone pick her up to go do other things. So, she could have charged at home (maybe) but either way was so inconsiderate that she was waiting to max out her charge knowing that there were people waiting. I honestly don't blame the ioniq driver as much. He was asleep and may not have known (or cared) that people were waiting. So, EA is a mess and some EV drivers who are inconsiderate idiots are making it worse. But, I don't think they are necessarily overpriced.

 

[kort6776]

To answer the title of this thread, I'd have to say no. If they were they wouldn't be so crowded.

the flaw in your theory is that you don't factor in all the car manufacturers who give years of free charging to the buyers of their cars. almost all of the free charging is on the EA network.
in the short period of time that I was paying for charging I easily found other networks that are less costly, albeit their sometimes slower speeds, to charge my cars on.

 

[borski]

We began the day with a top-off charge at Brunswick, GA. Again, as soon as we plugged in we got the red “Authentication Error” message with an instruction to unplug and plug back in. This time we were able to unplug without having to double-click the key fob. (Just as yesterday when the plug would not release three times, I was sitting in the car while my partner got out to plug in, thus leaving the doors unlocked.)

Our next charging stop was at Pooler, GA (near Savannah) for a full charge. The first station we tried (a 350-kW one) was out of service. When another (150-kW) came open, we took it. Again, the “Authentication Error”, and we had to use the Lucid app to start the session. The charging speed never topped 95 kW, even though we preconditioned and started at 27% charge. While we were there, a Hummer EV pulled in. We watched the driver spend 8 minutes trying to start his charging session before he finally succeeded, after swiping two cards several times and calling someone (probably EA). While this was going on, it started to rain.

Our third charging stop was at Florence, SC. Only one cable was open and that was at a station with two cables, but only one car could charge at a time. So we had to wait about 15 minutes before the Mustang MachE on the other cable finished charging. Again, the “Authentication Error” and the need to use the Lucid app to start the session. When we finally got it going we sat in the car about five minutes with everything seeming fine. So we got out to walk over to the WalMart to use the restroom and get something to drink. I checked the app just as I walked into the store and saw that the charging session had terminated with the charge at 48%. So we had to go back to the car, unplug, plug back in, and restart the session. It had just started to drizzle rain, so we put our bladders on hold and stayed in the car until the charging session finished.

You know I love you, but this isn't an EA problem, this is a 'your car' problem and it is trivially resolved by contacting Customer Care and having them repush a new EA PnC certificate to your car. @SaratogaLefty recently had the same issues with failures to charge; CS pushed a new cert, no issues.

I have had no issues, fwiw.

I’m beginning to wonder if some of the problems aren’t with the car. Last night I set the charge limit to 80% before plugging into a ChargePoint Level 2 charger at the hotel. When I woke up this morning there was an alert on my phone saying the car was charged beyond the charge limit. I checked the Lucid app and, sure enough, the charge was at 85% even though it was indicating the limit was set at 80%.

I have never, ever, heard of that. That's pretty wild. I have no idea how that happened. At least there is an alert for it? Do keep us updated.

It was the first time he had ever heard of a charge over limit, and he told me that the Wunderbox had been replaced when we got a new HV battery, rear drive unit, and charging cable a few months ago, so we have all the latest hardware.

Ah, this is the crux of your issues, my friend. I have absolutely no idea why it isn't standard practice (or maybe it is and they forgot), but when your battery and Wunderbox are replaced, you lose your EA PnC cert and/or it is invalid. That is why your car cannot connect to EA. Call CS right now and have them re-push the cert, and then go try an EA station again. I would bet $50 it works fine.

 

[Pragmatic]

As I said not over priced, free is not overpriced. If I were having half the problems with EA that people are posting about I would charge elsewhere. People use EA because it's free, has lots of stations or has stations in good locations.

Based on continued use of the chargers, the hassles associated with charging at EA are out weighted by the low cost (or conventional locations).

 

[hmp10]

Ah, this is the crux of your issues, my friend. I have absolutely no idea why it isn't standard practice (or maybe it is and they forgot), but when your battery and Wunderbox are replaced, you lose your EA PnC cert and/or it is invalid. That is why your car cannot connect to EA. Call CS right now and have them re-push the cert, and then go try an EA station again. I would bet $50 it works fine.

I am going to call Customer Service about pushing a new PhC certificate to the car as you suggest. However, on this trip one charge session did initiate automatically upon plug-in as it sometimes used to. It was on the first morning when we found a 350-kW plug not working and switched to a 150-kW plug. The connection authenticated automatically, and the session began and completed.