Electrify America Overpriced?

[hmp10]

I just called Customer Service and asked about pushing a PnC certificate to me. They had never heard of this (or of the overcharging issue) and are contacting the Atlanta Service Center to see if they have a mobile tech in the Durham area who can get to us today.

 

[borski]

I am going to call Customer Service about pushing a new PhC certificate to the car as you suggest. However, on this trip one charge session did initiate automatically upon plug-in as it sometimes used to. It was on the first morning when we found a 350-kW plug not working and switched to a 150-kW plug. The connection authenticated automatically, and the session began and completed.

Well then maybe I'm about to lose $50, but in any case, I'm certain it has to do with your battery replacement / Wunderbox, whether it's the certificate or not. I do hope the PnC cert fixes it though; that would be such an easy answer to a very annoying problem.

 

[borski]

I just called Customer Service and asked about pushing a PnC certificate to me. They had never heard of this (or of the overcharging issue) and are contacting the Atlanta Service Center to see if they have a mobile tech in the Durham area who can get to us today.

Contact customer service again. This is one of those situations where you just have to get someone on the phone who has done it before. Perhaps @SaratogaLefty can advise since he just did this.

 

[hmp10]

Well then maybe I'm about to lose $50, but in any case, I'm certain it has to do with your battery replacement / Wunderbox, whether it's the certificate or not. I do hope the PnC cert fixes it though; that would be such an easy answer to a very annoying problem.

Customer Service knew about a PnC certificate, but they had never heard of a new one being pushed to a car. I’m also texting the Miami Service Center to see if they can tell me anything about this and/or the Wunderbox replacement on the car.

We’re going to be driving from Charlotte to Florida on Wednesday and Thursday just as that ares gets into the full throes of tropical storm Debbie’s deluges, so whatever charging problems we’re going to encounter might be in the midst of torrential rains — coupled to the range loss of driving through heavy rain which will require more charging.

 

[borski]

Customer Service knew about a PnC certificate, but they had never heard of a new one being pushed to a car. I’m also texting the Miami Service Center to see if they can tell me anything about this and/or the Wunderbox replacement on the car.

Sure - I guess what I mean is that sometimes I find I have better luck (not just with Lucid, but anyone) calling and trying again. That said, it doesn't sound like they gave you the runaround, and are looking into it, so that's good.

 

[hmp10]

Well then maybe I'm about to lose $50, but in any case, I'm certain it has to do with your battery replacement / Wunderbox, whether it's the certificate or not. I do hope the PnC cert fixes it though; that would be such an easy answer to a very annoying problem.

There may be problems with our car, but I’m not ready to let EA off the hook, either. As I recounted, we saw several other cars have to switch charging posts to get a working cable on this trip, we saw the Hummer driver have trouble initiating a charge, and we saw another Lucid owner (a Cosmo Silver Touring out of Orlando) encountering the same problem of getting an “Authentication Error” alert and having to use his mobile app to start the session, something he said he’s had to start doing lately. And on this one thread @stratus and @Sandvinsd have reported similar EA problems with their Airs.

 

[hmp10]

I’m on hold with Lucid CS right now trying to find someone who knows about pushing a new PnC certificate to the car. But I have a question:

If a PnC tells EA that the car is eligible for free charging and our car does not have a valid PnC, why can we start a free charge session using the Lucid app? One of the things EA CS told me when I asked them to initiate a charge session from their end was that they “have no visibility” to the cars themselves and thus cannot initiate the charge from their end.

 

[stratus]

There may be problems with our car, but I’m not ready to let EA off the hook, either. As I recounted, we saw several other cars have to switch charging posts to get a working cable on this trip, we saw the Hummer driver have trouble initiating a charge, and we saw another Lucid owner (a Cosmo Silver Touring out of Orlando) encountering the same problem of getting an “Authentication Error” alert and having to use his mobile app to start the session, something he said he’s had to start doing lately. And on this one thread @stratus and @Sandvinsd have reported similar EA problems with their Airs.

You definitely seem to have the worst “luck” so to say. My annoyances have been sporadic , but they are still frustrating . In the proper environment, with reliable , plentiful chargers, they should be very very infrequent. Undoubtedly, we will get there .
I wish you success in making road trips less of a hassle.

 

[stratus]

You know I love you, but this isn't an EA problem, this is a 'your car' problem and it is trivially resolved by contacting Customer Care and having them repush a new EA PnC certificate to your car. @SaratogaLefty recently had the same issues with failures to charge; CS pushed a new cert, no issues.

I have had no issues, fwiw.


I have never, ever, heard of that. That's pretty wild. I have no idea how that happened. At least there is an alert for it? Do keep us updated.


Ah, this is the crux of your issues, my friend. I have absolutely no idea why it isn't standard practice (or maybe it is and they forgot), but when your battery and Wunderbox are replaced, you lose your EA PnC cert and/or it is invalid. That is why your car cannot connect to EA. Call CS right now and have them re-push the cert, and then go try an EA station again. I would bet $50 it works fine.

You know I love you, but this isn't an EA problem, this is a 'your car' problem and it is trivially resolved by contacting Customer Care and having them repush a new EA PnC certificate to your car. @SaratogaLefty recently had the same issues with failures to charge; CS pushed a new cert, no issues.

I have had no issues, fwiw.


I have never, ever, heard of that. That's pretty wild. I have no idea how that happened. At least there is an alert for it? Do keep us updated.


Ah, this is the crux of your issues, my friend. I have absolutely no idea why it isn't standard practice (or maybe it is and they forgot), but when your battery and Wunderbox are replaced, you lose your EA PnC cert and/or it is invalid. That is why your car cannot connect to EA. Call CS right now and have them re-push the cert, and then go try an EA station again. I would bet $50 it works fine.

Many thanks for this information. I just had my battery replaced, so you may have just saved me a bunch of expletives and intestinal distress.

 

[borski]

I’m on hold with Lucid CS right now trying to find someone who knows about pushing a new PnC certificate to the car. But I have a question:

If a PnC tells EA that the car is eligible for free charging and our car does not have a valid PnC, why can we start a free charge session using the Lucid app? One of the things EA CS told me when I asked them to initiate a charge session from their end was that they “have no visibility” to the cars themselves and thus cannot initiate the charge from their end.

It's using the ISO 15118 standard. To make a long story short, the certificate on your car is what authenticates your car (via PKI) to EA and identifies it. That's the authentication portion.

The authorization portion happens after that; EA checks to see if your car's "ID" is in their database of free charging, and if it is, it initiates it. If it isn't, it throws a charging error. Lucid, since it knows that you're at EA and that it has failed to submit the proper authorization, but also knows that EA did successfully authenticate the vehicle (because a cert can be valid, but not in their 'free charging' database), then prompts you to tell it which charger you're at and then the Lucid app calls into the EA API to tell it to start charging.

I made up the part about the hand-wavy 'database of free charging' because who knows what's inside EA (that's a black box to me) but the rest should be accurate, as that's how the protocol works.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

It's using the ISO 15118 standard. To make a long story short, the certificate on your car is what authenticates your car (via PKI) to EA and identifies it. That's the authentication portion.

The authorization portion happens after that; EA checks to see if your car's "ID" is in their database of free charging, and if it is, it initiates it. If it isn't, it throws a charging error. Lucid, since it knows that you're at EA and that it has failed to submit the proper authorization, but also knows that EA did successfully authenticate the vehicle (because a cert can be valid, but not in their 'free charging' database), then prompts you to tell it which charger you're at and then the Lucid app calls into the EA API to tell it to start charging.

I made up the part about the hand-wavy 'database of free charging' because who knows what's inside EA (that's a black box to me) but the rest should be accurate, as that's how the protocol works.

Sorry I am late to this conversation HMP, but I just got home. In any case, I had a similar situation that started after my battery/wunderbox were replaced in March/April. For a couple of months I had to use the Lucid App to connect to the EA chargers and it really didn't bother me that much so I didn't complain. However, I only used 350kW chargers and didn't try any 150kW so not sure if that makes a difference. Finally I was advised to request a new PnC certification and I called customer service and they did push it out to my car. Not sure why you are being told they don't know anything about it but I only called the one time and they pushed it out immediately and since then no problem. Hopefully they will get you back up and running before you have to drive through the hurricane!!

 

[hmp10]

I called Lucid CS again, got a different person, and asked for a new PnC to be pushed to our car. She instantly said okay and asked me to go to the car to open it. I did, and in less than.a minute, she had pushed the new certificate to the car. We’ll see what tomorrow brings at the EA stop in Charlotte, NC.

Meanwhile, I’ll again charge up overnight at the Level 2 ChargePoint station at the hotel and see if I get a repeat of the car’s charging over the set charge limit.

This really has been the trip from hell. While we were packing Friday afternoon the frunk lid jammed with the right side slightly ajar. I could neither open nor close it. Fortunately, a mobile tech was in the area to check it out. He said the latch was failing due to water entry, a known defect Lucid is still trying to correct. The car has to go to a Service Center for that repair which involves removing the bumper. Once he got the lid properly seated, he told us not to use the frunk until the latch is replaced.

Then the charging issues started.

That was followed Saturday with the camera displays coming up to displace the nav screen every time the car stopped in traffic. That lasted through Sunday and disappeared today (Monday). Don’t know if it’s related to the 2.3.0 update we did a few days before leaving.

Then yesterday afternoon when we were unloading at the hotel, the right rear passenger door handle jammed in the extended position without opening the door. It reset with a software reboot.

Then last night, with the charge limit set to 80%, the car charged up to 85% and sent me a phone warning only after the fact. No one at Lucid has ever heard of this happening, and it has been added to the service ticket for next week.

Now tropical storm Debby is set to stall over our return route Wednesday and Thursday.

Lordy, I’m just wishing to get home with us and the car in one piece and be done with road trips for a while.

 

[HC_79]

He added, however, that they’re seeing a flood of issue reports with Electrify America right now

I think the seasons also play a big role in charger problems. Yesterday I was at 20% and needed to go out later so decided to go to EVGo and do a quick top up vs a slow charge at home. It was 105 out and 4 of the 6 chargers were offline with a huge line. The EA location on the opposite side of the road was offline so I decided to go to the one near home. The line was huge so didn’t bother to wait but as I was driving past I saw 3 people on the phone standing at the charger. No doubt they were on the phone to EA.

You can’t just leave these chargers out in the blistering heat and expect them to work. They need canopies or something over them.

 

[hmp10]

I think the seasons also play a big role in charger problems. Yesterday I was at 20% and needed to go out later so decided to go to EVGo and do a quick top up vs a slow charge at home. It was 105 out and 4 of the 6 chargers were offline with a huge line. The EA location on the opposite side of the road was offline so I decided to go to the one near home. The line was huge so didn’t bother to wait but as I was driving past I saw 3 people on the phone standing at the charger. No doubt they were on the phone to EA.

You can’t just leave these chargers out in the blistering heat and expect them to work. They need canopies or something over them.

I’ve sometimes wondered this. All our road trips have been in the deep south in hot weather. I know that lead acid batteries, air conditioning equipment, and any kind of electronic equipment have unusually short lifespans in Florida. It’s not only the heat, but how long it lasts, how much humidity comes with it, and even the salt in the air near the coasts. I see no reason that these chargers would not be subject to the same stresses.

 

[hmp10]

I’ve been talking with the mobile tech in North Carolina since last evening. The overnight ChargePoint session worked properly, with charging stopping at the 80% limit I set. His Service Manager had never heard of that problem, but he did say that he is constantly having trouble now with EA authentication errors. This was the same thing a Lucid CS rep told me when I called them from Bushnell last Saturday. He said they’re getting a rash of complaints about EA authentication errors.

Our next EA charging session will be in Charlotte. Can’t wait to see what that brings. Maybe getting a new PnC certification pushed to the car will. help.

 

[hmp10]

Charging now in Charlotte. Got “Authentication Error” and had to use Lucid app. Charging terminated at 50 percent and we had to restart. VW ID.4 next to us had to switch stations as she was getting only a few KW.

 

[EVCar]

Charging now in Charlotte. Got “Authentication Error” and had to use Lucid app. Charging terminated at 50 percent and we had to restart. VW ID.4 next to us had to switch stations as she was getting only a few KW.

My Wonderbox was replaced last year so I was just on the phone with CS to verify that I have the appropriate PnC certificate.
They told me it's standard protocol to push the new certificate and to do a test charger at EA prior to releasing the car.
I don't know how long this protocol has been in place and whether this is a universal practice among different service centers, however.

 

[BS8899]

My Wonderbox was replaced last year so I was just on the phone with CS to verify that I have the appropriate PnC certificate.
They told me it's standard protocol to push the new certificate and to do a test charger at EA prior to releasing the car.
I don't know how long this protocol has been in place and whether this is a universal practice among different service centers, however.

I also have my HV battery/Wunderbox replaced in the first 2 weeks of getting my AGT in Nov 2022. Thereafter, I continued to have problem with EV charging. I went back to the Scottsdale SC multiple times. They install/reinstall the PnC at least 4 or 5 times.

My experience with EA is:
> I have almost no problem with EA charging/PnC when I am in CA. The only 1 incident I had was at an older EA charger in Palm Springs.
> I continued to have problems on-and-off in AZ EA charging. I "think" it is getting better over the past year but I still encounter occasional issues.

I don't know why this is so. Perhaps the PnC validation process is not centralized in EA and is more regional?

 

[borski]

Charging now in Charlotte. Got “Authentication Error” and had to use Lucid app. Charging terminated at 50 percent and we had to restart. VW ID.4 next to us had to switch stations as she was getting only a few KW.

Got it. Sounds like something is indeed going on, either with your car or with EA.

My Wonderbox was replaced last year so I was just on the phone with CS to verify that I have the appropriate PnC certificate.
They told me it's standard protocol to push the new certificate and to do a test charger at EA prior to releasing the car.
I don't know how long this protocol has been in place and whether this is a universal practice among different service centers, however.

Yeah, standard protocol; but not always followed.

 

[Tqlucid]

EA is a rip off in MA, if you pay that is. I have a 2024 and it’s free for me. Plug and charge, I do nothing. Otherwise I’d never charge at EA. I have a home charger at 10-11kwh installed also. Charges easily overnight. At home, in MA rates suck so it’s not cheap but half the EA cost at .32cents per kWh for me (all in supply and delivery).