Battery charge still leaking 45% even after 45 days at West Palm Service Center with NO activity to repair

[chipcaldwell]

After ruminating, I think I figured out the issue that I reported in a previous post. It seems that many were relying on the miles per kW as a key metric, which caused me to realize that that is exactly the key metric. So here's what's happening in my GT. After collecting 12 data points over 2 months, here's what's happening. For every 100 actual miles driven, my battery charge is leaking 144 kW. The impact is this. On a full 80% charge to 388 mile range & planning to drive to 20%, or 310 miles, my battery charge leaks 447 kW, providing only 170 actual miles instead of 310 miles. (at my statistical 3.2 m/kW). FYI, I live in Florida so no cold weather variable. On Nov 17, 45 days ago, Lucid towed the GT to their West Palm Beach Service Center. The Lucid app (from which I've taken a daily screen captures) shows the odometer constant since December 3 at 5062 & the car's location unchanged. Yesterday, the customer rep called to advise maintenance checked & found no problem. This inspite of the fact that the Google Sheets log of the 2-month problem history remains unopened by maintenance. I refused to take delivery until Lucid tests it for 150 miles, documenting in 50-mile increments, that the 45% battery leakage has been fixed. I don't wish to get a Florida Lemon Law attorney, but I see no other recourse. (The law applies after 30 days with no resolution.) Unless anyone has a better suggestion? Thanks in advance.

 

[hydbob]

After ruminating, I think I figured out the issue that I reported in a previous post. It seems that many were relying on the miles per kW as a key metric, which caused me to realize that that is exactly the key metric. So here's what's happening in my GT. After collecting 12 data points over 2 months, here's what's happening. For every 100 actual miles driven, my battery charge is leaking 144 kW. The impact is this. On a full 80% charge to 388 mile range & planning to drive to 20%, or 310 miles, my battery charge leaks 447 kW, providing only 170 actual miles instead of 310 miles. (at my statistical 3.2 m/kW). FYI, I live in Florida so no cold weather variable. On Nov 17, 45 days ago, Lucid towed the GT to their West Palm Beach Service Center. The Lucid app (from which I've taken a daily screen captures) shows the odometer constant since December 3 at 5062 & the car's location unchanged. Yesterday, the customer rep called to advise maintenance checked & found no problem. This inspite of the fact that the Google Sheets log of the 2-month problem history remains unopened by maintenance. I refused to take delivery until Lucid tests it for 150 miles, documenting in 50-mile increments, that the 45% battery leakage has been fixed. I don't wish to get a Florida Lemon Law attorney, but I see no other recourse. (The law applies after 30 days with no resolution.) Unless anyone has a better suggestion? Thanks in advance.

Can you clarify what you mean by leaking?

 

[Adnillien]

For every 100 actual miles driven, my battery charge is leaking 144 kW.

You are confusing me with your units. 144kW is a measure of instantaneous power not energy coming out of the battery. Please let us know what you mean by leakage.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Let me see if I understand. you have a GT with 19” wheels that would give an EPA rating of 516 miles. Is that correct? charging to 80% and driving down to 20% would use 60% of the battery meaning the EPA range of that is 60%*516 = 310 miles. You drive 177 miles and your car goes from 80% to 20%. Correct? If so then the car consumed 67.2 kWh which means you got a 2.63 miles/kWh efficiency. That is probably what the car shows as “since last charge” efficiency on the trip counter. However, you way that the efficiency by your trip odometer is 3.2 which you reset when you started the trip. That means 177 miles / 3.2 miles per kWh shows you used 55.3 kWh driving. That means you “lost” 67.2 x 55.3 = 11.9 kWh which the car consumed not driving. Is all of that correct?

Now is the question as to what happened to those 11.9 kWh. That does seem a bit high for what I call “phantom drain.” However, I find that if you had done a fast charge, the BMS fans use a lot of power keeping your battery temperature optimal. They will turn on when you are parked. If you precondition the car inside temperature, that will consume some. If you keep the keys near the car, the car will stay on consuming more power. And there are other things that would account for this.

if you park the car overnight, recording the battery percentage and then let the car sit and not waking it up. What is the battery percentage in the morning?

 

[chipcaldwell]

Leaking 45% kWh. So, on a full 80% charge to 388 mile range & planning to drive to 20%, or 310 miles, my battery charge leaks 447 kWh, providing only 170 actual miles instead of 310 miles. (at my statistical 3.2 m/kW). FYI, I live in Florida. I have a log of 12 data points over almost 2 months showing the battery charge leaking between 71% & 45%, averaging 45% loss.

 

[hydbob]

Leaking 45% kWh. So, on a full 80% charge to 388 mile range & planning to drive to 20%, or 310 miles, my battery charge leaks 447 kWh, providing only 170 actual miles instead of 310 miles. (at my statistical 3.2 m/kW). FYI, I live in Florida. I have a log of 12 data points over almost 2 months showing the battery charge leaking between 71% & 45%, averaging 45% loss.

I'm still really confused here Chip.

Did you charge to 80%, drive 170 actual miles and your car showed 20% after your drive? Or...did you charge to 80% drive a bunch of trips over time and after 170 miles your charge showed 20%?

There are plenty of things that drain your battery while sitting. If it's too hot, too cold, car waking up, etc.

If you are statistically getting 3.2 mi/kwh then your efficiency seems..low but not out of the realm of what other users are experiencing.

 

[Tesla2.0]

45% of 112 kWh GT battery = 50.8 kWh <> 447 kWh.

????????????

 

[chipcaldwell]

Thanks for the math, Sandvinsd. The way your math worked the problem is that I'm only getting 2.6 m/kW vs. 3.2. But that's only 23% off, not 45% off. Any idea how to account for the missing 22% loss? And, thanks so much. Lucid can't even express the problem so you've helped me better articulate. I will still refuse to accept delivery until they get a recorded minimum 3.0 over 150 miles. Is that unreasonable?

 

[Sandvinsd]

I’ll make a correction. I had used 177 miles and you had written 170. Which makes the numbers slightly different. One question, Do you have 19” wheels? That affects the range a bit and what the EPA ratings would be.

 

[Sandvinsd]

There is some loss when the car is sitting but it is minimal. So you have it currently at the service center and are taking daily pictures when waking up the car? If so the battery should not loose much unless they were working on it. Can you provide some of that info?

 

[chipcaldwell]

Yes, the screen captures show that as the car has remained undriven at 5062 odometer since December 3rd that the loss is two to three miles per dat.

 

[chipcaldwell]

I’ll make a correction. I had used 177 miles and you had written 170. Which makes the numbers slightly different. One question, Do you have 19” wheels? That affects the range a bit and what the EPA ratings would be.

It also occurs for me to ask this question. Is it possible that at 80% charge it begins at 3.6 m/kW, but as the car is being driven it's efficiency drops 45% settling in at the 2.6 average you record with your math? If the efficiency is radically dropping, what could be the cause?

 

[Sandvinsd]

Yes, the screen captures show that as the car has remained undriven at 5062 odometer since December 3rd that the loss is two to three miles per dat.

That is completely normal.

 

[tmilone103]

Is this your first EV? I assume you just don't understand that you will not get the stated range in cold weather. On even a small trip you can lose 20 miles heating the battery alone.

See my post on how I am getting 50% less range: https://lucidowners.com/threads/lucid-cold-weather-performance-as-bad-as-tesla.4110/

I am not leaking 50% of my miles. The efficiency is not the same in cold weather.

 

[chipcaldwell]

Exactly. That proves that while idol it is only losing a few kilowatt hours. Therefore the problem is not normal. It is losing 45% efficiency while being driven. That is, it starts out with a full charge at around 3.6 m/kW, but after 170 MI the average is 2.6 m/kW. So that during that 170 MI the m/kW must be dropping below 2, right?

 

[Adnillien]

It also occurs for me to ask this question. Is it possible that at 80% charge it begins at 3.6 m/kW, but as the car is being driven it's efficiency drops 45% settling in at the 2.6 average you record with your math? If the efficiency is radically dropping, what could be the cause?

The efficiency may decrease very slightly as the battery voltage drops with lower state of charge, but this will not be significant and does not account for what you are seeing.

 

[chipcaldwell]

Is this your first EV? I assume you just don't understand that you will not get the stated range in cold weather. On even a small trip you can lose 20 miles heating the battery alone.

See my post on how I am getting 50% less range: https://lucidowners.com/threads/lucid-cold-weather-performance-as-bad-as-tesla.4110/

I am not leaking 50% of my miles. The efficiency is not the same in cold weather.

You didn't know that I live in florida. Even with the cold snap we didn't get below freezing. So weather isn't the variable causing me to lose 45% efficiency. At full charge it shows I'm getting 3.6 m/kW but over 170 mi the average is 2.6, which suggests that over time the efficiency must be dropping below 2.0, right?

 

[Sandvinsd]

It also occurs for me to ask this question. Is it possible that at 80% charge it begins at 3.6 m/kW, but as the car is being driven it's efficiency drops 45% settling in at the 2.6 average you record with your math? If the efficiency is radically dropping, what could be the cause?

If you drove 170 miles from an 80% charge town to 20%, the math is 170 miles /62.2 kWh = 2.53 miles per kWh. EPA is 4.6 so you are getting 55% of EPA range. You have 19” wheels, correct? if not, that affects the calculation. There is always some phantom drain that occurs. if you are on a trip, charging and then driving for 170 miles, your efficiency numbers are going to be much better than if you charged, parked and drove 170 miles over the corporate of a week or two because of the power consumption the car will do while parked managing the battery temperature every time you stop.

if you are really only getting the 170 miles on 60% of the battery in one trip, e are lots of reasons. Are you in swift mode? What is the regen setting? Spirited driving? Hills? Outdoor Temp? Use of massage seats, heat, ac, etc.? And others.

 

[hydbob]

You didn't know that I live in florida. Even with the cold snap we didn't get below freezing. So weather isn't the variable causing me to lose 45% efficiency. At full charge it shows I'm getting 3.6 m/kW but over 170 mi the average is 2.6, which suggests that over time the efficiency must be dropping below 2.0, right?

Is this 170 miles continuous or over multiple trips?

 

[tmilone103]

Is this 170 miles continuous or over multiple trips?

That is a good question because it makes a dramatic difference. In my case I travel 35 miles a day and I use around 70 stated miles to do that but if I took a longer trip my performance would be greatly better because you are not conditioning the battery over and over again.