Battery charge still leaking 45% even after 45 days at West Palm Service Center with NO activity to repair

[Coho]

Sounds to me like reduced efficiency reflecting driving conditions vs the EPA values for miles/KW. Not sure its the car rather than conditions.

Reminds me of a wise Italian restaurant owner I met yrs ago in Rome. I complained about the the meal ticket not reflecting our dinner. He asked - did you enjoy your meal? Answer - yes very much. Is that a fair price? Yes was my answer. So he retorted - why are you complaining?? Good point. Perhaps more focus on car enjoyment and less on the efficiency math?

 

[Tesla2.0]

Yes, the screen captures show that as the car has remained undriven at 5062 odometer since December 3rd that the loss is two to three miles per dat.

Losing 2~3 mile per day is nothing abnormal. It happens to your phone battery too even if you put it on airplane mode to reduce battery loss. Electrons are heat, they dissipate over time. On top of that, when your car is idle, the Lucid Battery Manage System will either run fan or generate heat to maintain steady temperature for longevity of your high voltage battery, that thermal management will use battery. So if you drive 170 miles in one shot vs. driving in multiple runs affect your calculation. While you document your log, you should also document time factor into calculation.

 

[deepakb]

Even after driving 2000 miles my avg efficiency is 2.8m/kwh. It is not a battery drain or leakage. It is due to how i drive, use other functions in the car (climate, lights, radio, music, massage seats, heated seats, heated steering etc). I always try to punch the car very often and i know my low efficiency is because of that. When i drive at speed and in stop and go traffic i get between 3.2 to 3.4 efficiency. When my car is idle, i have around 4 to 5 miles loss. This is because of me walking around with my phone near my garage area which wakes up the car and then locks it. So there are many factors that affect the efficiency. I don't expect to get stated EPA average anytime. I don't think that is a fair expectation too. We don't expect that from an ICE car. Same applies here. So if your complaint is about you are not getting the stated EPA average then i don't think that will be correctable by CS technicians. BTW, i am in CA and we have warm weather too. So, if i drive normally and efficiently use car functions my battery efficiency goes up. That tells me, there is nothing wrong with battery but how i use the car.

 

[Steveinarizona]

You didn't know that I live in florida. Even with the cold snap we didn't get below freezing. So weather isn't the variable causing me to lose 45% efficiency. At full charge it shows I'm getting 3.6 m/kW but over 170 mi the average is 2.6, which suggests that over time the efficiency must be dropping below 2.0, right?

Why didn't you tell us? If you want useful responses, you should provide the relevant information. Location, time of year, weather, elevation changes (unlikely in Florida). driving style, etc.

 

[SDHacker]

Can we stop posting until Chip answers the questions around how he drives, 170 miles over single trip or multiple, 170 highway or mixed at what speed, etc. He isn’t providing information required to help him, he just picks and chooses what he wants to talk about and unfortunately, half of it is gibberish.

I think he’s established that he is getting 55% of the range the epa estimate says he might get (which is what the car shows as possible range) so he says the battery is leaking 45% of the charge. He’s asking where that 45% of battery charge went since he only got 55% of the estimated range - it must have leaked out because he didn’t get 100% of displayed range.

Chip, 55% of the car’s estimated range could be normal if you enjoy the power the car delivers every chance you get rather than drive conservatively. You’ll approach the epa estimate if you drive like the epa - accelerate to 60 mph in 15 seconds.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Can we stop posting until Chip answers the questions around how he drives, 170 miles over single trip or multiple, 170 highway or mixed at what speed, etc. He isn’t providing information required to help him, he just picks and chooses what he wants to talk about and unfortunately, half of it is gibberish.

I think he’s established that he is getting 55% of the range the epa estimate says he might get (which is what the car shows as possible range) so he says the battery is leaking 45% of the charge. He’s asking where that 45% of battery charge went since he only got 55% of the estimated range - it must have leaked out because he didn’t get 100% of displayed range.

Chip, 55% of the car’s estimated range could be normal if you enjoy the power the car delivers every chance you get rather than drive conservatively. You’ll approach the epa estimate if you drive like the epa - accelerate to 60 mph in 15 seconds.

0-60 in 15 seconds, I've owned my car since June NEVER done that!

My shirt collar size has gone up one size with all the accelerating.

 

[dolphinsafe]

Not sure if I can add anything to this conversation but I have an Air Touring, 21" wheels. That's a 92.5kw battery. My average miles per kw are around 3.2 but it has been cold and only recently got up to the mid 60's. Cold weather is not a positive feature on EVs and degrades range significantly. Even down to 50 will increase your consumption.
I've found that short trips re horrible - 2.x miles per kw whereas if I can get on an extended drive and not hotdog I'll get somewhere north of 3.1. It largely depends on the length of drive. But that's at 70 - 75 which also decreases mileage. due to drag.
I can guarantee - if you keep it around 50 - you'll get much better range.
Now... those still aren't stellar numbers for a car rated at 4.6 miles per kw. I do know that 21" wheels will knock at least 10% off - probably more. So the most I could probably hope for would be 4.1 miles per kw in perfect conditions.

Having said that - it's still more efficient than most EV's.

 

[Steveinarizona]

In addition to weight, battery pack size, weather, elevation changes, the EPA says that aggressive driving with HVAC on will mean .7 X the EPA estimate:

Fuel Economy and EV Range Testing | US EPA

EPA's National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory (NVFEL) tests new cars and trucks sold in the U.S. to ensure that they comply with federal emissions and fuel economy standards.

www.epa.gov

So there are many, many factors that impact on range.

 

[Bobby]

In addition to weight, battery pack size, weather, elevation changes, the EPA says that aggressive driving with HVAC on will mean .7 X the EPA estimate:

Fuel Economy and EV Range Testing | US EPA

EPA's National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory (NVFEL) tests new cars and trucks sold in the U.S. to ensure that they comply with federal emissions and fuel economy standards.

www.epa.gov

So there are many, many factors that impact on range.

Agree. I’m looking forward to more real-world EPA tests. Of course this means out darling Lucids will not be rated for as much range, but at least we can do apples to apples comparisons with others.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Agree. I’m looking forward to more real-world EPA tests. Of course this means out darling Lucids will not be rated for as much range, but at least we can do apples to apples comparisons with others.

Yes...it will impact all the EV ranges. But we don't buy cars like the Lucid to hypermile.

 

[dolphinsafe]

What you really want to test is consumption - or efficiency. I'd suggest leaving your Trip B as a constant so it shows an "overall" consumption for all trips. If Lucid could just provide those numbers so we can effectively use Trip A and B more it'd be helpful. Then use Since Last Charge for day trips - between charging. And Trip A for however you want to.

Since Last Charge is helpful for getting a handle on how your trip is going as long as you charged just before leaving or were charging before leaving. In my case I plug in at home every time I pull into the garage.

If it's convenient. you can shut down your A/C and make sure the heated/cooled seats are turned off. You could completely turn off the HVAC if you wish. Then drive normally and keep the Settings | Vehicle | Trips screen on and watch the top number. It'll start off poor, perhaps 1.x or 2.x but should increase to 3 and possibly more depending on your wheel size. I also recommend using Adaptive Cruise or Highway Assist as you should get much better range using those tools. Keep it under 80. Don't put it in Swift or Sprint mode. If it's 60+ degrees and you can go for a long enough distance you should get 3.2 to 3.3 with 21" wheels, and very close to 4 with 19" wheels. I'm not sure what the 20" wheels result in.

 

[Michael C]

As everyone has mentioned, there are just so many variables affecting your efficiency- controllable (eg. driving style, which may be uncontrollable for some people ) and uncontrollable (eg. weather).
Here are some numbers for reference-
2022 Model Y Performance (dual motors, AWD) is rated for 303 miles with ~75kWh usable capacity (per google, not to be confused with battery capacity), which translates to 4.04mi/kWh (rated efficiency). After less than 5,000 miles, I am averaging ~2.91mi/kWh, ~72% of "rated" efficiency.
2021 Model 3 SR+ (single motor, RWD) is rated for 263 miles with ~50kWh usable capacity, which translates to 5.26mi/kWh (rated efficiency). (Surprised to see the number, am I missing something?) After 16,500 miles, my wife is averaging ~4.10mi/kWh, ~78% of "rated" efficiency.
One thing to note, perhaps due to driving style / speed / drag, is that I tend to get about 60% to 65% of estimated range driving on highway. So if I drive Model Y P on highway from 90% SoC to 15% SoC, I'd expect to cover ~140 miles (instead of ~227 miles at rated efficiency) and would plan for charging stops accordingly.
I am sure there are plenty of EV drivers achieving better numbers (say 80% or even 85%+ rated efficiency), but I just try to enjoy the drive and accept the fact I cannot achieve the rated efficiency.

 

[Tesla2.0]

As everyone has mentioned, there are just so many variables affecting your efficiency- controllable (eg. driving style, which may be uncontrollable for some people ) and uncontrollable (eg. weather).
Here are some numbers for reference-
2022 Model Y Performance (dual motors, AWD) is rated for 303 miles with ~75kWh usable capacity (per google, not to be confused with battery capacity), which translates to 4.04mi/kWh (rated efficiency). After less than 5,000 miles, I am averaging ~2.91mi/kWh, ~72% of "rated" efficiency.
2021 Model 3 SR+ (single motor, RWD) is rated for 263 miles with ~50kWh usable capacity, which translates to 5.26mi/kWh (rated efficiency). (Surprised to see the number, am I missing something?) After 16,500 miles, my wife is averaging ~4.10mi/kWh, ~78% of "rated" efficiency.
One thing to note, perhaps due to driving style / speed / drag, is that I tend to get about 60% to 65% of estimated range driving on highway. So if I drive Model Y P on highway from 90% SoC to 15% SoC, I'd expect to cover ~140 miles (instead of ~227 miles at rated efficiency) and would plan for charging stops accordingly.
I am sure there are plenty of EV drivers achieving better numbers (say 80% or even 85%+ rated efficiency), but I just try to enjoy the drive and accept the fact I cannot achieve the rated efficiency.

Your number perfectly explained how 280 miles from west Houston to North Dallas would took me 3 charges on 2018 Model-X.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I just completed a cold weather mini range test. It was 34F. Starting at 30% SOC I DC fast charged on EA to 68%, then drove at a flat 72mph using highway assist for about 80 miles. Climate was set to 72 auto, there was no traffic, elevation changes were small, no wind. I got 3.2 mi/kWh on 19” wheels, 3.4 after subtracting the 2 miles of stop/go/acceleration to get to 72mph on the highway. This is much better than I was expecting, since with mixed driving (driving faster plus lots of stop and go commuting in temps 20-35F) I was getting more like 2.4 mi/kWh. While most here already knew this, if you don’t drive like EPA you won’t get EPA, and temperature alone massively effects efficiency, as does getting this very heavy car up to your target speed over and over again. But once you’re at a set speed even at freezing temps this car is great, so cold weather highway range 72mph assuming around 109kw battery would be 350-370 miles. I don’t understand any complaints about the range on this car, I think people just don’t understand how much variables like stop/go/getting up to speed and ambient temperature/elevation and wind can affect efficiency.

 

[chipcaldwell]

If you drove 170 miles from an 80% charge town to 20%, the math is 170 miles /62.2 kWh = 2.53 miles per kWh. EPA is 4.6 so you are getting 55% of EPA range. You have 19” wheels, correct? if not, that affects the calculation. There is always some phantom drain that occurs. if you are on a trip, charging and then driving for 170 miles, your efficiency numbers are going to be much better than if you charged, parked and drove 170 miles over the corporate of a week or two because of the power consumption the car will do while parked managing the battery temperature every time you stop.

if you are really only getting the 170 miles on 60% of the battery in one trip, e are lots of reasons. Are you in swift mode? What is the regen setting? Spirited driving? Hills? Outdoor Temp? Use of massage seats, heat, ac, etc.? And others.

Update: Lucid West Palm Beach Service Center Manager & a regional maintenance person called me Friday morning (12.30.22) and stated that they fixed the first problem, not charging, but could not find any low M/kW issues. I asked if it was unreasonable before I accepted delivery if I requested Lucid to test drive it for 150 miles to assure I am getting at least 3.0 m/kW. They said they would not do that for liability reasons. I asked I could drive it before accepting. Again the said, "No; trust us, accept delivery, & if you have further issues, we commit to fix". Note: the vehicle has not moved since 12.5 so how do they know?

So, ... I just spoke with a FL Lemon Law attorney. He says I have a case. But, we agreed that I will take delivery & document m/kW, hoping that they did fix.

My question is this. As I document, what data should I collect? I am planning to document every 50 miles driven. Anything more than screen captures showing:
1. m/kW actual
2. m/kW per dashboard.
3. Miles driven in 50 mile increments per odometer.
4. kWH start & end (in 50 m increments)

I'll update this post in a few weeks. Thanks for your advice.

 

[joec]

Update: Lucid West Palm Beach Service Center Manager & a regional maintenance person called me Friday morning (12.30.22) and stated that they fixed the first problem, not charging, but could not find any low M/kW issues. I asked if it was unreasonable before I accepted delivery if I requested Lucid to test drive it for 150 miles to assure I am getting at least 3.0 m/kW. They said they would not do that for liability reasons. I asked I could drive it before accepting. Again the said, "No; trust us, accept delivery, & if you have further issues, we commit to fix". Note: the vehicle has not moved since 12.5 so how do they know?

So, ... I just spoke with a FL Lemon Law attorney. He says I have a case. But, we agreed that I will take delivery & document m/kW, hoping that they did fix.

My question is this. As I document, what data should I collect? I am planning to document every 50 miles driven. Anything more than screen captures showing:
1. m/kW actual
2. m/kW per dashboard.
3. Miles driven in 50 mile increments per odometer.
4. kWH start & end (in 50 m increments)

I'll update this post in a few weeks. Thanks for your advice.

I totally get why Lucid would not drive your car 150 miles. That would be nuts, from a liability perspective. I wouldn't let a third party drive my car 20 miles, let alone 150.

I couldn't even get a Tesla service guy to drive my car over the speed limit to test my wheel balance.

Not sure how you plan to prove much with this test. I mean, anyone can easily drive 50 miles and get less than 3.0 m/kWh. Just go 90 mph the whole time. Or run the climate controls on full blast while the car is sitting idle. Or put a giant sail on the top of the car to create more wind drag. Or drive uphill the entire way. And on and on. Don't see any self-documentation by you holding up in any sort of court. Maybe video document at least part of the driving?

 

[MHDave]

My question is this. As I document, what data should I collect? I am planning to document every 50 miles driven. Anything more than screen captures showing:
1. m/kW actual
2. m/kW per dashboard.
3. Miles driven in 50 mile increments per odometer.
4. kWH start & end (in 50 m increments)

I doubt that any of those would stand alone. Your mi/kW depends on so many other factors. Think of mpg in an ICE car/truck. My cars and trucks and motorcycles vary wildly from estimates due to environmental factors and how I drive them. I would think that your only hope would be to have an independent agency put your car up against an EPA-specified set of test conditions; if your car varied substantially from another equivalent Lucid in the same tests, you might have a chance.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Update: Lucid West Palm Beach Service Center Manager & a regional maintenance person called me Friday morning (12.30.22) and stated that they fixed the first problem, not charging, but could not find any low M/kW issues. I asked if it was unreasonable before I accepted delivery if I requested Lucid to test drive it for 150 miles to assure I am getting at least 3.0 m/kW. They said they would not do that for liability reasons. I asked I could drive it before accepting. Again the said, "No; trust us, accept delivery, & if you have further issues, we commit to fix". Note: the vehicle has not moved since 12.5 so how do they know?

So, ... I just spoke with a FL Lemon Law attorney. He says I have a case. But, we agreed that I will take delivery & document m/kW, hoping that they did fix.

My question is this. As I document, what data should I collect? I am planning to document every 50 miles driven. Anything more than screen captures showing:
1. m/kW actual
2. m/kW per dashboard.
3. Miles driven in 50 mile increments per odometer.
4. kWH start & end (in 50 m increments)

I'll update this post in a few weeks. Thanks for your advice.

You need to have session start and end time, climate, elevation delta info. That is very critical. You cannot let car sit there and includes the idle time drainage to be counted just for battery management system maintaining HV battery.

 

[Bobby]

Never exceed the speed limit, drive on a calm day, make sure the ambient temperatures are above 70, keep your air conditioning off, keep your radio off, drive during the day so your lights are off, be very light on the throttle and you should get at least 3.0. If you don’t, then I agree with you something is wrong.

 

[Bobby]

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