"converting" tesla wall connector to Lucid Home Charging Station.

Hi guys, i'm looking for some guidance here.

I'm brand new to EVs, literally 1 week new, I received my Air Touring last week and I'm absolutely loving it so far!

I've read through as many of the charging threads as I could find, and perhaps I missed one that answers my question, but I'm interested in learning how to "swap in" a LHCS into a prior setup for a tesla wall connector. Fortunately, the previous owners of my home installed a 100A level 2 charger electrical conduit to the garage (along with solar panels with battery backup). The took the tesla connector when they moved, but the electrical conduit remains in placed.

I bought the LHCS, and I'll have an electrician do the work, but I want to educate myself enough to know that a) the work is done correctly, and 2) that I don't get ripped off.

The circuit breaker panel is rated at 200A. The EV Electrical conduit breaker is 100A.

I'm also curious if the conductor in the conduit meet the specs that Lucid has in the LHCS guide (2AWG, 90degree rating), would the electrician be able to determine this? Are the wires labeled (on the insulation) with their gauge/rating specs?

Finally, roughly, what do you think work like this should cost (rough estimates are fine, i know regional variations exist etc)?

I'll appreciate any and all help/guidance.

Many thanks in advance!

A good electrician should be able to pull the wires , check the breakers etc. I would assume if the old wires were 100a capable then it should just plug in no problem. 2 gauge wire should be plenty I believe.

Ensure they torque the connectors to the right torque, and ensure they check to make sure the wires are the right size, but outside of that it should be fairly straightforward.

Paging @DeaneG and @Worldwide Beagle to comment.

blueice89 said:

A good electrician should be able to pull the wires , check the breakers etc. I would assume if the old wires were 100a capable then it should just plug in no problem. 2 gauge wire should be plenty I believe.View attachment 20057

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thank you for the wire amperage info! I will have the electrician confirm the type of the conductor that's already installed (AWG, copper, aluminum etc), and if it's less than what lucid requires (AWG 2 copper 90 degree), then I'll ask him to adjust the "dip" settings to match the conductor type/rating.

borski said:

Ensure they torque the connectors to the right torque, and ensure they check to make sure the wires are the right size, but outside of that it should be fairly straightforward.

Paging @DeaneG and @Worldwide Beagle to comment.

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thanks Borski, great advice!

I'll ask him to triple check and confirm the wire gauge/material for sure. thanks for the reminder re: torque. For the compression lug, the lucid installation guide does not specify, is this pretty standard regarding material/quality or should I confirm that the electrician should use a specific type/quality of compression lug (?copper).

thanks again for your help

FathomBlueStealt said:

thanks Borski, great advice!

I'll ask him to triple check and confirm the wire gauge/material for sure. thanks for the reminder re: torque. For the compression lug, the lucid installation guide does not specify, is this pretty standard regarding material/quality or should I confirm that the electrician should use a specific type/quality of compression lug (?copper).

thanks again for your help

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Pretty standard. I didn’t use compression lugs; we used chair lugs instead, which was also fine.

borski said:

Pretty standard. I didn’t use compression lugs; we used chair lugs instead, which was also fine.

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good to know, never heard to chair lugs b4. thanks!

So it turns out the wires that were previously installed by prior homeowners are Aluminum wires . I'm not sure about AL wire gauge and temperature rating yet, but LHCS requires 2AWG copper (90 deg) so the current wires don't meet that requirement. One electrician suggested a installing a subpanel and running the existing aluminum wires to this subpanel, then running copper wires from the subpanel to the LHCS. Does this sound about right, given this context?

From what I've read it seems like aluminum wires have higher thermal expansion/contraction rates (compared to copper), so over time their connections can loosen which increases risks of "arcing" or fires. Oxidation seems to be a bigger issue with aluminum as well, which can lead to terminals getting oxidized, increasing resistance and ?overheating/fire risk.., I'm wondering if installing a subpanel with copper wires between the subpanel and the LHCS would mitigate these risks?

I'll ask the electrician when he comes later in the week, but I'll appreciate independent opinions from the forum as well.

thanks again for all your help!

FathomBlueStealt said:

good to know, never heard to chair lugs b4. thanks!

So it turns out the wires that were previously installed by prior homeowners are Aluminum wires . I'm not sure about AL wire gauge and temperature rating yet, but LHCS requires 2AWG copper (90 deg) so the current wires don't meet that requirement. One electrician suggested a installing a subpanel and running the existing aluminum wires to this subpanel, then running copper wires from the subpanel to the LHCS. Does this sound about right, given this context?

From what I've read it seems like aluminum wires have higher thermal expansion/contraction rates (compared to copper), so over time their connections can loosen which increases risks of "arcing" or fires. Oxidation seems to be a bigger issue with aluminum as well, which can lead to terminals getting oxidized, increasing resistance and ?overheating/fire risk.., I'm wondering if installing a subpanel with copper wires between the subpanel and the LHCS would mitigate these risks?

I'll ask the electrician when he comes later in the week, but I'll appreciate independent opinions from the forum as well.

thanks again for all your help!

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@Worldwide Beagle has opinions on copper/aluminum.

Maybe @DeaneG does too

borski said:

@Worldwide Beagle has opinions on copper/aluminum.

Maybe @DeaneG does too

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I don't have useful knowledge about aluminum wiring

I have 100ft or so of aluminium running to a sub-panel, then copper between the sub-panel and EVSE. Opinions vary on retorquing, using anti-corrosion compounds etc etc.

Spin Doctor said:

I have 100ft or so of aluminium running to a sub-panel, then copper between the sub-panel and EVSE. Opinions vary on retorquing, using anti-corrosion compounds etc etc.

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Great to hear that you have a similar setup! Do you mind sharing your experience, what gauge Aluminum wire was ran to the subpanel (I'll like to compare with mine once the electrician determines the gauge of my current aluminum wire).

Did they use anti-corrosion?

How many amps is the subpanel (not sure if I'm asking the question correctly)

Was a permit needed to install a subpanel?

I'll appreciate any pearls of wisdom/advice you can share.

thanks!

Update, in case someone is in a similar situation in the future.

The Aluminum wire in my current EV conduit is 4AWG, rated for 75A.

Options provided by electrician:
1) re-wire the entire conduit with copper 2AWG for about $10K,
2) re-wire the 4AWG AL wire to a larger gauge AL wire with 100A rating from the main circuit breaker panel to the garage, then install a subpanel in the garage, then use copper 2AWG from the subpanel to the LHCS for $7K. He does not think "derating" the LCHS to avoid ripping out the existing 4AWG AL wire will meets code, so he wants to completely replace the existing AL 4AWG.

I inquired about a 3rd option which is what I'll likely go with: keep existing 4AWG AL, and connect a NEMA 14-50 industrial receptable to it, and I'll use the mobile charging cable (NEMA 14-50) that lucid provides. He quoted me $800, he said the circuit breaker will need to be changed from 100A to 50A.

I'll look into returning LHCS, and go with the NEMA 14-50 option. I'll get a couple estimates to make sure $800 is reasonable to this type of work.

thanks everyone for all your help.

FathomBlueStealt said:

Update, in case someone is in a similar situation in the future.

The Aluminum wire in my current EV conduit is 4AWG, rated for 75A.

Options provided by electrician:
1) re-wire the entire conduit with copper 2AWG for about $10K,
2) re-wire the 4AWG AL wire to a larger gauge AL wire with 100A rating from the main circuit breaker panel to the garage, then install a subpanel in the garage, then use copper 2AWG from the subpanel to the LHCS for $7K. He does not think "derating" the LCHS to avoid ripping out the existing 4AWG AL wire will meets code, so he wants to completely replace the existing AL 4AWG.

I inquired about a 3rd option which is what I'll likely go with: keep existing 4AWG AL, and connect a NEMA 14-50 industrial receptable to it, and I'll use the mobile charging cable (NEMA 14-50) that lucid provides. He quoted me $800, he said the circuit breaker will need to be changed from 100A to 50A.

I'll look into returning LHCS, and go with the NEMA 14-50 option. I'll get a couple estimates to make sure $800 is reasonable to this type of work.

thanks everyone for all your help.

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You can totally derate the LCHCS. I have mine installed on a 30amp line and it works great.

hydbob said:

You can totally derate the LCHCS. I have mine installed on a 30amp line and it works great.

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Yeah. You set the jumpers properly and it will pass code just fine.

hydbob said:

You can totally derate the LCHCS. I have mine installed on a 30amp line and it works great.

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this is great to know. I should get a 2nd estimate tomorrow from a different company, will discuss this for sure. thanks!

borski said:

Yeah. You set the jumpers properly and it will pass code just fine.

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perfect, will explore this! thanks for ur help!

Spin Doctor said:

I have 100ft or so of aluminium running to a sub-panel, then copper between the sub-panel and EVSE. Opinions vary on retorquing, using anti-corrosion compounds etc etc.

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My wiring project will have something similar. 100ft of 1AWG aluminum to a 125A Sub-panel. Then copper to the LCHS. Also, we have added a 50A Hubbell outlet for backup purposes at the charger.

FathomBlueStealt said:

I'll look into returning LHCS, and go with the NEMA 14-50 option. I'll get a couple estimates to make sure $800 is reasonable to this type of work.

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Not sure where you are located, but in NJ this is consistent with what I've seen for a 14-50 installation. I paid about $600, but that was six years ago and I imagine the price has climbed a bit. Based on the excessive estimates you've gotten for replacing the wiring, I think the 14-50 outlet option is by far the way to go. I've had my Tesla for six years and can count on one hand the number of times that I wish I had more juice available in my home garage. You simply don't often need to refill the car's battery during the day. Almost all of my charging is done over night, and it really doesn't matter if the car has a 40 amp circuit or 80 amp. I think rapid charging is far more important out on the highway. At home, it is almost never relevant once you are talking Level 2.

FathomBlueStealt said:

Update, in case someone is in a similar situation in the future.

The Aluminum wire in my current EV conduit is 4AWG, rated for 75A.

Options provided by electrician:
1) re-wire the entire conduit with copper 2AWG for about $10K,
2) re-wire the 4AWG AL wire to a larger gauge AL wire with 100A rating from the main circuit breaker panel to the garage, then install a subpanel in the garage, then use copper 2AWG from the subpanel to the LHCS for $7K. He does not think "derating" the LCHS to avoid ripping out the existing 4AWG AL wire will meets code, so he wants to completely replace the existing AL 4AWG.

I inquired about a 3rd option which is what I'll likely go with: keep existing 4AWG AL, and connect a NEMA 14-50 industrial receptable to it, and I'll use the mobile charging cable (NEMA 14-50) that lucid provides. He quoted me $800, he said the circuit breaker will need to be changed from 100A to 50A.

I'll look into returning LHCS, and go with the NEMA 14-50 option. I'll get a couple estimates to make sure $800 is reasonable to this type of work.

thanks everyone for all your help.

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lol 10K tell that guy take a hike

RDaneel said:

Not sure where you are located, but in NJ this is consistent with what I've seen for a 14-50 installation. I paid about $600, but that was six years ago and I imagine the price has climbed a bit. Based on the excessive estimates you've gotten for replacing the wiring, I think the 14-50 outlet option is by far the way to go. I've had my Tesla for six years and can count on one hand the number of times that I wish I had more juice available in my home garage. You simply don't often need to refill the car's battery during the day. Almost all of my charging is done over night, and it really doesn't matter if the car has a 40 amp circuit or 80 amp. I think rapid charging is far more important out on the highway. At home, it is almost never relevant once you are talking Level 2.

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my thoughts exactly, between the ridiculous quotes and the nema 14-50, the latter makes much more sense! Fortunately, the 2nd company gave me a much more reasonable quote for the LHCS, $1k. They will install the subpanel right above the charger (instead of several feet away + ripping out all existing AL wiring, which was the 1st company's exorbitant proposition).

2nd company's estimate:
"We will install new 6 circut sub panel above the car charger. Wiring appears to be suffent for 70 amps. We will install 70 amp breaker in the main panel and then install a 70 amp breaker in the sub panel to feed the car charger. The new feed to the car charger will be in copper. (#4) This will also be in a flexible conduit most likely unless we can install a hard conduit fairly easily...

2 pole 70 amp CH Breaker6 circiut indoor 125 amp rated Square D HOM sub panel2 pole 70 amp Square D HOM Breaker#4 THHN1" or 1 1/4" Flex or conduit and fittings other miscelanous materialThis is just very close estimate on material. Real cost will be determined by we actually use"


Current AL wire is 4AWG rated at 75A. I reminded the company that LHCS requires 2AWG, they will install this instead of the 4AWG copper in the estimate. Looks like they plan to install a 70A subpanel, and at 80% continuous load, that should provide ~ 56A to the LHCS, and I've have them adjust the dip settings accordingly.

Please chime in if anything about this proposal seems off....

thanks to all of you for your invaluable assistance, it's greatly appreciated!!