Hardwire your home charging station! Or use a Hubbel / Bryant / Cooper 14-50 receptacle, not Leviton

[borski]

I really see little risk when an outlet is properly wired with quality receptacles. I think people get a bit hysterical over this. Sure, if someone is incompetent or substandard equipment or wiring is used, that’s another question. I’ve been using EVs since 2017 and never felt a plug getting close to being hot.

“Properly wired with quality receptacles” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Quality receptacles is what this entire thread has been about, and literally just today someone posted that they replaced their existing 10-30 receptacle with a cheap Leviton 14-30 receptacle.

Leviton should really say on their packaging “not for use with electric vehicles,” or similar. Given this forum’s propensity for starting class action lawsuits because, I don’t know, it rained too hard on Tuesday, I’m surprised nobody has brought up an action against Leviton; honestly, you’d possibly win, if you could show real damages, since they advertise it poorly, but IANAL.

Anyway, yes, if all is done properly then you’ll be fine and don’t need to run J-boxes all around the garage. But all is rarely done properly by most.

 

[DeaneG]

I have conduit and wire run to junction boxes at two locations (front and rear) adjacent to one of our garage parking spots. A Chargepoint Home Flex is currently hardwired to one location. The other is capped off and ready in case we buy an EV with a front-mounted charge port. Very easy to deinstall, move, and reinstall the charger if needed.

 

[Lucken]

Anyway, yes, if all is done properly then you’ll be fine and don’t need to run J-boxes all around the garage. But all is rarely done properly by most.

But most of us here are more savvy to these things than most.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

I have conduit and wire run to junction boxes at two locations (front and rear) adjacent to one of our garage parking spots. A Chargepoint Home Flex is currently hardwired to one location. The other is capped off and ready in case we buy an EV with a front-mounted charge port. Very easy to deinstall, move, and reinstall the charger if needed.

We really are twin sons of different mothers.

 

[DeaneG]

We really are twin sons of different mothers.

We're one in a million, so in the USA, there may be 330 of us.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

“Properly wired with quality receptacles” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Quality receptacles is what this entire thread has been about, and literally just today someone posted that they replaced their existing 10-30 receptacle with a cheap Leviton 14-30 receptacle.

Leviton should really say on their packaging “not for use with electric vehicles,” or similar. Given this forum’s propensity for starting class action lawsuits because, I don’t know, it rained too hard on Tuesday, I’m surprised nobody has brought up an action against Leviton; honestly, you’d possibly win, if you could show real damages, since they advertise it poorly, but IANAL.

Anyway, yes, if all is done properly then you’ll be fine and don’t need to run J-boxes all around the garage. But all is rarely done properly by most.

I don't really blame Leviton. Scores of people burn down their homes every day in the US, undersized or improper use of extensions, over loading circuits. Denver Fire told me that almost all fires they handle now are electrical, except during Sunday afternoon Bronco games, and grill fires take over. If Leviton said NOT FOR CONTINUOUS USE APPLIANCES, no one would read it, much less understand the meaning. And I could see some DIYers say:. My EV charging is not continuous use, it's only charging 7 hours at a time.......

Think about it. Until now, there have never been continuous appliances that were plugged in. It was never anticipated. They have always been hardwired. Electric water heater, infloor heating, continuous run pumps and motors. I am hoping the NEC deals with it.

Hard wiring is inherently safe.

 

[borski]

I don't really blame Leviton. Scores of people burn down their homes every day in the US, undersized or improper use of extensions, over loading circuits. Denver Fire told me that almost all fires they handle now are electrical, except during Sunday afternoon Bronco games, and grill fires take over. If Leviton said NOT FOR CONTINUOUS USE APPLIANCES, no one would read it, much less understand the meaning. And I could see some DIYers say:. My EV charging is not continuous use, it's only charging 7 hours at a time.......

Think about it. Until now, there have never been continuous appliances that were plugged in. It was never anticipated. They have always been hardwired. Electric water heater, infloor heating, continuous run pumps and motors. I am hoping the NEC deals with it.

Hard wiring is inherently safe.

110v heat pump water heaters exist now, and you just plug them into any 15-20A outlet.

But fair point; people will still daisychain surge protectors power strips and create various hazards.

But none of that means Leviton shouldn't mark it as such.

I also think Tide Pods should say 'DO NOT PUT IN YOUR MOUTH OR YOU WILL DIE' but I lost that battle a long time ago.

 

[johgo]

“Properly wired with quality receptacles” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Quality receptacles is what this entire thread has been about, and literally just today someone posted that they replaced their existing 10-30 receptacle with a cheap Leviton 14-30 receptacle.

Leviton should really say on their packaging “not for use with electric vehicles,” or similar. Given this forum’s propensity for starting class action lawsuits because, I don’t know, it rained too hard on Tuesday, I’m surprised nobody has brought up an action against Leviton; honestly, you’d possibly win, if you could show real damages, since they advertise it poorly, but IANAL.

Anyway, yes, if all is done properly then you’ll be fine and don’t need to run J-boxes all around the garage. But all is rarely done properly by most.

I talked to several electricians after my Leviton plug had a meltdown.

This is a distillation of what I learned:

1. Electricians honestly did not know 2 years ago about the risk of overheating in the Leviton plugs. They are just learning about it now.
2. The Leviton plug is not designed for EVs. It is designed for ranges and dryers
3. Ranges and dryers draw a full load intermittently. A Range may draw a load while it pre-heats then cycles on and off. A dryer may draw a full load for 30 minutes then it is off
4. My AGT draws 40amps (I have a 50 amp circuit breaker) for 7 hours continuously. It is too much heat for the Leviton
   1. If it was just a matter of excess heat, the heat would destroy the hard wired charging unit as well unless it was entirely steel, which of course it cannot be. There must be some insulating material like plastic which needs to be heat resistant.
5. The Hubbel and other high end plugs can stand the heat
6. I have steel conduit in a steel box on a cinder block wall in the garage; nothing around it
7. NEMA 14-50 outlets weaken with repeated plugging and unplugging of the charger cord. The receptacle for the prongs weakens and you get arcing.

So my decision was to replace the damaged plug/receptacle with a Hubbel plug in a steel box, steel conduit and 6ga wire torqued down. I will continue to leave the charging cable plugged into the receptacle when not in use and not remove it to keep the integrity of the plug intact. Hard wiring limits my possibilities if I get a 2nd EV.

There is still a potential failure point in the system where the prongs of the charging cable plug into the plug. But never removing the charging cable minimizes the risk.

If I get a second EV and need to plug and unplug, I would either get a 2nd Hubbel plug or go with hard wire for both cars. If someone has two different EVs already, I would NOT unplug and replug different charging cables. It weakens even the strongest outlet and will eventually lead to arcing and a failure.

 

[Lucken]

I have a Hubble receptacle that serves both my Lucid & BMW i4. Since the ChargePoint Home Flex cable is long enough to reach both cars, there is no need for plugging & unplugging. I actually have another 240v outlet closer to the BMW, but I prefer using the ChargePoint charger. 3 of the 4 chargers I’ve accumulated over the years are kept in the basement.

If the Home Flex cable was not long enough to reach the i4, I’d mount one of my other chargers rather than continuously move and plug & unplug a single charger. I agree that inevitably weakens the receptacle.

Since I also have an EA charger location about 5 minutes from my house, I use that too when it’s convenient.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

110v heat pump water heaters exist now, and you just plug them into any 15-20A outlet.

But fair point; people will still daisychain surge protectors power strips and create various hazards.

But none of that means Leviton shouldn't mark it as such.

I also think Tide Pods should say 'DO NOT PUT IN YOUR MOUTH OR YOU WILL DIE' but I lost that battle a long time ago.

@borski. The real problem is that HD, ebay and Amazon sell lots of parts that any idiot can buy, try to install improperly, watching a Youtube. I am so old I remember when Sawsalls were only sold to the trade. Now, any tom dick or harry can buy one and cut through his gas or power line. Can't fix stupid.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

I talked to several electricians after my Leviton plug had a meltdown.

This is a distillation of what I learned:

1. Electricians honestly did not know 2 years ago about the risk of overheating in the Leviton plugs. They are just learning about it now.
2. The Leviton plug is not designed for EVs. It is designed for ranges and dryers
3. Ranges and dryers draw a full load intermittently. A Range may draw a load while it pre-heats then cycles on and off. A dryer may draw a full load for 30 minutes then it is off
4. My AGT draws 40amps (I have a 50 amp circuit breaker) for 7 hours continuously. It is too much heat for the Leviton
   1. If it was just a matter of excess heat, the heat would destroy the hard wired charging unit as well unless it was entirely steel, which of course it cannot be. There must be some insulating material like plastic which needs to be heat resistant.
5. The Hubbel and other high end plugs can stand the heat
6. I have steel conduit in a steel box on a cinder block wall in the garage; nothing around it
7. NEMA 14-50 outlets weaken with repeated plugging and unplugging of the charger cord. The receptacle for the prongs weakens and you get arcing.

So my decision was to replace the damaged plug/receptacle with a Hubbel plug in a steel box, steel conduit and 6ga wire torqued down. I will continue to leave the charging cable plugged into the receptacle when not in use and not remove it to keep the integrity of the plug intact. Hard wiring limits my possibilities if I get a 2nd EV.

There is still a potential failure point in the system where the prongs of the charging cable plug into the plug. But never removing the charging cable minimizes the risk.

If I get a second EV and need to plug and unplug, I would either get a 2nd Hubbel plug or go with hard wire for both cars. If someone has two different EVs already, I would NOT unplug and replug different charging cables. It weakens even the strongest outlet and will eventually lead to arcing and a failure.

Incredibly well written and spot on correct. You have learned well grasshopper. Having worked at Hubbell designing receptacles for AV and audio use, I learned that all receptacles start degrading from day one. It's a balance of convenience and careful observation. My designs always started with the hospital grade receptacle.

You might find this interesting, Hubbell tests hospital receptacles by installing them in a wall and ramming then over and over with a big ass floor polisher. Just like janitors will do in real life.

I have seen lugs on hardwired 200 amp panels 40 years later that are still tight as a drum. I have seen receptacle prongs weaken after a year.

A friend is a former master electrician. He knew and understands the issue of continuous vs intermittent. Industrial vs consumer grade. I was happy to hear that when ever he replaced a range or dryer, he always replaced the consumer grade receptacle with a new one. For ten bucks, and ten minutes work, he was not gambling on the condition of the old one. He knew the new receptacle was not great, but sufficient as long as that appliance would last. And no more.

Again, thanks for taking the time to do the post.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Notice on the cheap receptacle the cheap ass screws. Flat blade. They CANNOT be properly torqued. Sorry @Bunnylebowski, you Qmerit electrician was dead wrong. And I use the word dead on purpos

Oh I totally believe you. Qmerit just subcontracts out to local electricians. They may have more experience installing EVSE but I don’t think they have to all meet the same standard. Tom Moloughney had a guy on from Qmerit who said it was best to hardwire, meanwhile my guy said the only reason to is so it doesn’t trip the GFCI. Incidentally my cheap 14-50 outlet I replaced was installed by an industrial electrician who has state contracts and also installs public ChargePoint L2 chargers at business so I figured there wouldn’t be a problem. Nope! I now fully appreciate the reason to Hardwire, I convinced my co-worker who just got a Taycan to do the same.

 

[borski]

@borski. The real problem is that HD, ebay and Amazon sell lots of parts that any idiot can buy, try to install improperly, watching a Youtube. I am so old I remember when Sawsalls were only sold to the trade. Now, any tom dick or harry can buy one and cut through his gas or power line. Can't fix stupid.

So we should stop trying?

People smoked for a long time, even after we put warnings on cigarettes. Were the warnings not worth putting on?

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

So we should stop trying?

People smoked for a long time, even after we put warnings on cigarettes. Were the warnings not worth

Nope.

 

[Electrified]

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[borski]

Nope.

Guess we’ll agree to disagree on this one

 

[Bobby]

After being shamed into doing so by this and similar threads, I changed the Leviton 14–50 in my garage to a Hubbell 14–50. The same JuiceBox 40 amp charger has been plugged into that receptacle since the day it was installed, and the day I changed the receptacle was the first time I ever unplugged it. I went with a receptacle arrangement as opposed to hardwired to allow myself to upgrade the charger if I wanted or needed to. Never happened. The original Leviton was installed by a master electrician with the intended purpose of EV charging. I'll give him a pass on this because it was done in 2018 when I got my first EV. When I replaced the Leviton, I noticed no damage or melting. This is after nearly 5 years of frequent usage. Oh well, I feel better about it with the new one.

My prior house burned down in the 2007 San Diego wildfires. Take it from me, it's a pain in the butt.

 

[DeaneG]

... I went with a receptacle arrangement as opposed to hardwired to allow myself to upgrade the charger if I wanted or needed to. Never happened....

I did the same for years, then realized it would be very unlikely I'd ever swap one out. Have been hardwiring them since and feel better about it.

 

[Electrified]

After being shamed into doing so by this and similar threads, I changed the Leviton 14–50 in my garage to a Hubbell 14–50. The same JuiceBox 40 amp charger has been plugged into that receptacle since the day it was installed, and the day I changed the receptacle was the first time I ever unplugged it. I went with a receptacle arrangement as opposed to hardwired to allow myself to upgrade the charger if I wanted or needed to. Never happened. The original Leviton was installed by a master electrician with the intended purpose of EV charging. I'll give him a pass on this because it was done in 2018 when I got my first EV. When I replaced the Leviton, I noticed no damage or melting. This is after nearly 5 years of frequent usage. Oh well, I feel better about it with the new one.

My prior house burned down in the 2007 San Diego wildfires. Take it from me, it's a pain in the butt.

Professional installation, the receptacle wasn't cycled with hundred of connects and disconnects; and zero issues as should be expected! The key here is the professional installation.

Leviton builds many high quality receptacles for the industry with different specification grades just as Hubbell, and Legrand does; know your use and needs, and use the specification that meets your needs and you will have years of trouble free use.
ELECTRICAL FUNDAMENTALSJANUARY/FEBRUARY 2005

Receptacle Grades: What Do They Mean?​

Receptacle Grades: What Do They Mean?

iaeimagazine.org

 

[Electrified]

Say it with me Industrial grade never LevitonView attachment 15708

How do we it was the receptacle that caused the fire? The answer is we don't! It looks like an aluminum SER cable install as indicated by the bare aluminum ground, and then it begs the questions: Were the conductors stripped properly? Were the conductors torqued properly? Was the AL treated with an anti-oxidant?

Aluminum is a fine conductor; If it is trimmed and installed properly.