Hardwire your home charging station! Or use a Hubbel / Bryant / Cooper 14-50 receptacle, not Leviton

[Worldwide Beagle]

I agree work Dean-O, you might be better off with a 1/4 torque wrench. Most all the torque screwdrivers on Amazon are made for bicycles, which do delicate parts and which rarely need more than 25 in lb. Or 3 NM. Our required 75 in lb is 8.5 NM. And Harbor Freight torque wrenches are a great and accurate value for occasional use. They are consistent.

Remember, the 75 in lb torque setting is really the minimum requirement. You need to get at least that much torque to properly compress and hold the copper through repeated duty cycles. I am sure 85 or 100 are fine. The Hubbell receptacle is a sold block of glass reinforced nylon.

Electrical lug torque settings are not like torque settings cylinder heads bolts or brake disks, that require precision torque for bolt stretch and to prevent warping. Our goal is just to insure that the conductor does come loose over time and use.

All the warnings on electrical lug torque settings talk about the danger of not getting HIGH enough. I have never seen an over tightening caution.

 

[EVCar]

I agree work Dean-O, you might be better off with a 1/4 torque wrench. Most all the torque screwdrivers on Amazon are made for bicycles, which do delicate parts and which rarely need more than 25 in lb. Or 3 NM. Our required 75 in lb is 8.5 NM. And Harbor Freight torque wrenches are a great and accurate value for occasional use. They are consistent.

Remember, the 75 in lb torque setting is really the minimum requirement. You need to get at least that much torque to properly compress and hold the copper through repeated duty cycles. I am sure 85 or 100 are fine. The Hubbell receptacle is a sold block of glass reinforced nylon.

Electrical lug torque settings are not like torque settings cylinder heads bolts or brake disks, that require precision torque for bolt stretch and to prevent warping. Our goal is just to insure that the conductor does come loose over time and use.

All the warnings on electrical lug torque settings talk about the danger of not getting HIGH enough. I have never seen an over tightening caution.

That'd make it easy. I have a few torque wrenches already.

 

[sk8ndad]

I've been delaying having a charger installed waiting for the V2H to be done. My thought was that if I installed now, I would probably have to have an electrician come out again. Plenty of Electrify America stations near my house and for normal daily driving a 110 recharges what I use. Do you think my assumptions are true? Thank you in advance.

 

[DeaneG]

I've been delaying having a charger installed waiting for the V2H to be done. My thought was that if I installed now, I would probably have to have an electrician come out again. Plenty of Electrify America stations near my house and for normal daily driving a 110 recharges what I use. Do you think my assumptions are true? Thank you in advance.

My personal guess is that you'll be waiting a while for V2H. If you are comfy with your current routine for another year or two, no worries. Again, just my opinion. Do pull the 120V plug out from the wall socket after charging for an hour or more, and feel the plug's prongs to make sure they're not hot. Warm is expected and OK.

 

[Andretex]

When we decided to buy my son a Bolt EUV, we purchased a chargepoint homeflex charger. The electrician decided to install a receptacle instead of hard wiring because my town requires a permit for hard wiring EV chargers. The permit is not expensive except the process takes a long time and requires two inspection visits where the electrician needs to be available and waitingfor the inspector. Besides the Bolt does not need much in amps to charge.

The question I have is whether I should purchase another charger and have it hard wired for my Lucid or not. Should I buy an 80 amp charger and have it hard wired or should I just use the chargepoint charger which delivers at 32 amps or 7.7kw? Taking 12 hours to charge is probably ok for me.

 

[hydbob]

When we decided to buy my son a Bolt EUV, we purchased a chargepoint homeflex charger. The electrician decided to install a receptacle instead of hard wiring because my town requires a permit for hard wiring EV chargers. The permit is not expensive except the process takes a long time and requires two inspection visits where the electrician needs to be available and waitingfor the inspector. Besides the Bolt does not need much in amps to charge.

The question I have is whether I should purchase another charger and have it hard wired for my Lucid or not. Should I buy an 80 amp charger and have it hard wired or should I just use the chargepoint charger which delivers at 32 amps or 7.7kw? Taking 12 hours to charge is probably ok for me.

I would just use the chargepoint you have.

 

[Tâm]

When we decided to buy my son a Bolt EUV, we purchased a chargepoint homeflex charger. The electrician decided to install a receptacle instead of hard wiring because my town requires a permit for hard wiring EV chargers. The permit is not expensive except the process takes a long time and requires two inspection visits where the electrician needs to be available and waitingfor the inspector. Besides the Bolt does not need much in amps to charge.

The question I have is whether I should purchase another charger and have it hard wired for my Lucid or not. Should I buy an 80 amp charger and have it hard wired or should I just use the chargepoint charger which delivers at 32 amps or 7.7kw? Taking 12 hours to charge is probably ok for me.

Ideally, hardwired is best to eliminate additional points of failure:

Some believe the brand Hubbell or Bryant should lessen the chance of a meltdown.

For your case, I would continue to use what you have now until things settle down and you might want to upgrade to 80A when Lucid will implement the bidirectional charging.

 

[enzro]

I hardwired mine, it's straightforward with fewer failure points. I got the Lucid charger.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

The question I have is whether I should purchase another charger and have it hard wired for my Lucid or not. Should I buy an 80 amp charger and have it hard wired or should I just use the chargepoint charger which delivers at 32 amps or 7.7kw? Taking 12 hours to charge is probably ok for me.

My background is mains electricity. What brand of NEMA 14-50 receptacle do you have now? Cheap Leviton or Cooper 240v receptacle should never be used for EV charging. They were never made for that continuous use. MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE IN YOUR GARAGE. Industrial rated Hubbell / Bryant receptacles cost about $80. They work fine for 40 amp overnight EV charging as far as everyone knows. We have not seen a failure of those receptacles. The Hubbell receptacles are built like a brick shit house. I use one in my vacation home,with a Charge Point, set to 40amps on a 50 amp breaker. I recently charged my Lucid up there, going from 20 to 80 %, drawing 9.6 kv overnight. I brought my Fluke temperature gun. The face of the receptacle never got over 75f. For what's it worth, the CP car power cord got to 80f.

That said, the world is moving away fast from using a plug in receptacle use for permanent level 2 home fixed BEV charging. It's dying out. Too many variables and too many house fires. Tesla now only sells hardwire units for fixed, home level 2 wall mounts. both it's Gen 3 and it's new UWC, universal. Properly hardwired home chargers have no issues. No risk of the electrician or homeowner using a $10 Leviton. Tesla knows this. Their decision to stop selling plug in home units is significant.

While the $1200 Lucid charger does 80 amps, that is not where I see the home charging industry going. Imho, the BEV industry for level 2 home, overnight charging with fixed units is going to 48 amp 11.3kv, hardwired with 6 awg, wired into a 60 amp breaker. It's safe. It works. Any journeyman electrian can do it. Most service panels can handle it. And it will easily fully charge any BEV overnight. Great bang for the buck.

Sorry for the long explanation. I would go for hardwiring if it's your charging place. But a quality receptacle on the existing CP should be fine. Especially interim use while figuring this out. Remember, just because you hardwire, does not mean you are stuck forever witth that charger. An electrician can easily unhook a hardwired charger and replace it as technology changes.

 

[Andretex]

My background is mains electricity. What brand of NEMA 14-50 receptacle do you have now? Cheap Leviton or Cooper 240v receptacle should never be used for EV charging. They were never made for that continuous use. MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE IN YOUR GARAGE. Industrial rated Hubbell / Bryant receptacles cost about $80. They work fine for 40 amp overnight EV charging as far as everyone knows. We have not seen a failure of those receptacles. The Hubbell receptacles are built like a brick shit house. I use one in my vacation home,with a Charge Point, set to 40amps on a 50 amp breaker. I recently charged my Lucid up there, going from 20 to 80 %, drawing 9.6 kv overnight. I brought my Fluke temperature gun. The face of the receptacle never got over 75f. For what's it worth, the CP car power cord got to 80f.

That said, the world is moving away fast from using a plug in receptacle use for permanent level 2 home fixed BEV charging. It's dying out. Too many variables and too many house fires. Tesla now only sells hardwire units for fixed, home level 2 wall mounts. both it's Gen 3 and it's new UWC, universal. Properly hardwired home chargers have no issues. No risk of the electrician or homeowner using a $10 Leviton. Tesla knows this. Their decision to stop selling plug in home units is significant.

While the $1200 Lucid charger does 80 amps, that is not where I see the home charging industry going. Imho, the BEV industry for level 2 home, overnight charging with fixed units is going to 48 amp 11.3kv, hardwired with 6 awg, wired into a 60 amp breaker. It's safe. It works. Any journeyman electrian can do it. Most service panels can handle it. And it will easily fully charge any BEV overnight. Great bang for the buck.

Sorry for the long explanation. I would go for hardwiring if it's your charging place. But a quality receptacle on the existing CP should be fine. Especially interim use while figuring this out. Remember, just because you hardwire, does not mean you are stuck forever witth that charger. An electrician can easily unhook a hardwired charger and replace it as technology changes.

I appreciate the info.

I currently have a chargepoint home flex connected via a Midwest electric outdoor 15-40 plug. The Midwest is rated 50 amp for outdoor use and has the outdoor covered casing. We chose to use a 40 amp connection which delivers 32 amps to the charger. I think it is pretty safe.

I will take your advice and hard wire another chargepoint homeflex inside the garage (where my car is kept) and do the full 50 amp on it. Then, I will wait for the Lucid or Ultium GM bi directional technology to come out to reevaluate next steps.

I mention GMs Ultium tech because we have a Bolt EUV and my oldest son is a GM engineer. I will buy a silverado EV at some point.

 

[Lucken]

IMHO, when talking about overnight charging, I can't get too excited about the difference between 48 amp & 80 amp speeds. I think for most use cases, 48 amps is perfectly fine and will do the job overnight.

 

[Andretex]

My only additional question is regarding 48 amp charging. Chargepoint home flex can be used on a 50 or 40 amp circuit which delivers 40 or 32 amps to the car. To get 48 amp, you need 60 amp circuit but with what wall charger? Can you use the lucid charger on a 60 amp circuit?

 

[Ampere]

I use a Grizzl-e 48 amp charger hardwired to a 60 amp circuit. Works like a charm. My Lucid charges plenty fast when necessary, but most of the time I'm merely adding 5-10 percent overnight after local driving. I'm not sure what an ultra-fast 80 amp charger buys you unless you return home from one long trip and want to immediately turn around and set out on another long trip.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

Can you use the lucid charger on a 60 amp circuit?

YES -- easy - the Lucid automatically handles from a few amps to 80 and everything in between. I use a 60 circuit at my home - I told my CP its on a 60 amp circuit/breaker and the CP knows to output 48 amps to the Lucid - and the Lucid is fine with that.

When you put a CP on a 60 amp breaker circuit and tell the CP that its on a 60 amp breaker, the CP will then only put out 48 amps - 11.3kv. The CP does the downrating required by the National Electric Code. Continuous use elec circuits must be downrated according to the NEC, to use 80%. This applies to a circuit powering a continuous loads, which are defined as more than 3 hours continuous (such as BEVs). In other words, we wire the circuit for 60 amps, put in a 60 amp breaker but then are only allowed by the NEC to draw 48 amps - giving the circuit 20% headroom, so to speak. Dryers and Stoves are INTERMITENT loads and do not have the 80% downrating NEC rule. You can power a 50 amp range on a 50 amp circuit. Unless, of, course, you dry your clothes at high heat continuously for more than 3 hours at a time.

When you hard wire the CP, it is very flexible - so much more so than when you plug in to a receptacle. Look at the installation manual. You can ONLY use plugs for the CP in for 32 or 40 amp charging (using a 40 and 50 amp breakers/circuits. But with hardwiring, you have many options and can set the CP to handle them.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

IMHO, when talking about overnight charging, I can't get too excited about the difference between 48 amp & 80 amp speeds. I think for most use cases, 48 amps is perfectly fine and will do the job overnight.

Totally agree - the whole point of OVERNIGHT Level 2 is TO SET IT AND FORGET IT, and it is done when I wake up. I think the 80 amp came from marketing, thinking the more is better. 80 sounds better than 40. But as you say, of what practical use? I think it very significant that Tesla no longer makes a Level2 home OR DESTINATION charger that goes above 48 amp. I think 48 will become the standard, not because ITS THE BEST (whatever that means) but became it very doable, proven to work well with our cars with big batts, and is the best bang for the buck.

Perhaps, if someone forgets to charge overnight, needed to charge their BEV during the day, at lunch, in between errands, then 80 amp would shorten time bit. Or if someone comes home at 3 AM with their Lucid at 20% SOC and then needs a 80% SOC to be out at 7 am - I think only @borski or @joec fits into that hard partying category.

 

[borski]

Totally agree - the whole point of OVERNIGHT Level 2 is TO SET IT AND FORGET IT, and it is done when I wake up. I think the 80 amp came from marketing, thinking the more is better. 80 sounds better than 40. But as you say, of what practical use? I think it very significant that Tesla no longer makes a Level2 home OR DESTINATION charger that goes above 48 amp. I think 48 will become the standard, not because ITS THE BEST (whatever that means) but became it very doable, proven to work well with our cars with big batts, and is the best bang for the buck.

Perhaps, if someone forgets to charge overnight, needed to charge their BEV during the day, at lunch, in between errands, then 80 amp would shorten time bit. Or if someone comes home at 3 AM with their Lucid at 20% SOC and then needs a 80% SOC to be out at 7 am - I think only @borski or @joec fits into that hard partying category.

I mean, I like the 80 amps because it means I can plug in after lunch if I happen to be home and get back to 80 before a trip, or anything like that. I like the optionality, but I did not have to do a panel upgrade or anything to support it; just upgrade the breaker in the subpanel and in the main panel (the panel was already a 125A, but the breaker in it and the main for it was 100A).

But I'm stupid, and have both, lol - I have the 80A Lucid EVSE + the 48A Wallbox, for our two EVs. You might say "that's way too many amps!" and you'd be right, except that I also have the Wallbox Power Boost, which puts a couple CTs on the subpanel mains and measures the current going through, adjusting the Wallbox's power draw so as to stay within the 80% continuous limits.

That means when my Lucid isn't plugged in, other car gets full 48A. When mine is plugged in, it gets less, but as soon as mine is charged it bounces back up to 48A. Of course, my wife can use the Lucid charger too if she needs the speed, but it's nice to have both and 'set it and forget it'.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

I mean, I like the 80 amps because it means I can plug in after lunch if I happen to be home and get back to 80 before a trip, or anything like that. I like the optionality, but I did not have to do a panel upgrade or anything to support it; just upgrade the breaker in the subpanel and in the main panel (the panel was already a 125A, but the breaker in it and the main for it was 100A).

But I'm stupid, and have both, lol - I have the 80A Lucid EVSE + the 48A Wallbox, for our two EVs. You might say "that's way too many amps!"

Don't worry, we ALL know you have an "electric" personality.

 

[borski]

Don't worry, we ALL know you have an "electric" personality.

More like “forgetful” and automation is key to ensuring I don’t wake up to a last minute Uber ride.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

More like “forgetful” and automation is key to ensuring I don’t wake up to a last minute Uber ride.

I get it. (I am a subpanel addict) I just hope that some of the newbies here do not look at your extensive set up and think what you did is "required" for a good home charging.

Running a pair of #2AWG for a 100 amp circuit is not for the faint of heart. My thinking is I do not want to discourage anyone from thinking that doing a hardwired 50 amp circuit for 40 amp charging, OR a 60 amp circuit for 48 amp charging will not work admirably for them - for a long time to come. In other words, I do not want someone to do home charging with a splitter on an old dryer 240v outlet because they think the alternative to that is a multi thousand dollar 100 amp install.

 

[Bobby]

I get it. (I am a subpanel addict) I just hope that some of the newbies here do not look at your extensive set up and think what you did is "required" for a good home charging.

Running a pair of #2AWG for a 100 amp circuit is not for the faint of heart. My thinking is I do not want to discourage anyone from thinking that doing a hardwired 50 amp circuit for 40 amp charging, OR a 60 amp circuit for 48 amp charging will not work admirably for them - for a long time to come. In other words, I do not want someone to do home charging with a splitter on an old dryer 240v outlet because they think the alternative to that is a multi thousand dollar 100 amp install.

I will gladly buy you a beer if you come to my house and tell me what I need to do with my panel and sub panels.