NACS Megathread

[DeaneG]

V4 station is actually starting to deploying in South Carolina, Oregon and Alabama right now at this point. There are sightings of these new stations. In Europe, they are coming to Netherland and England. Theoretically, it can deliver 615kW speed at 615 amp at 1000 volt. But it will be capped at 250kW for now.

All v4 dispensers worldwide are currently limited to 450V because they are being fed by v3 power conversion cabinets. There are no 1000V v4 power conversion cabinets in a public installation anywhere. Hope this changes soon, but with the continued slow-walk of Cybertruck production, not likely.

 

[Tesla2.0]

View attachment 15821

Subaru just joined the list.

 

[par11768]

From Lucid's perspective this should be a simple up vs downside analysis of adoptiing the standard. What is the downside of Lucid announcing they will support NACS? Only downside seems to be the CEO giving into Tesla. Ego is a lousy way to run a business. In terms of upside, virtually all of the EV manufacturers delivering prodcut have endorsed the standard. The standard is being adopted by the other charging networks, so the majority of charging ports in this country will evolve to NACS over the next few years. People are hesitant to purchase EVs because of the lack of reliable, available chargers and the horror stories of using EA chargetrs. Charging at 50KW is better than getting stranded. They might actually sell more cars.....

Seems like a pretty straight forward business decision.

 

[Snafu]

From Lucid's perspective this should be a simple up vs downside analysis of adoptiing the standard. What is the downside of Lucid announcing they will support NACS? Only downside seems to be the CEO giving into Tesla. Ego is a lousy way to run a business. In terms of upside, virtually all of the EV manufacturers delivering prodcut have endorsed the standard. The standard is being adopted by the other charging networks, so the majority of charging ports in this country will evolve to NACS over the next few years. People are hesitant to purchase EVs because of the lack of reliable, available chargers and the horror stories of using EA chargetrs. Charging at 50KW is better than getting stranded. They might actually sell more cars.....

Seems like a pretty straight forward business decision.

No, keeping the eye on the ball and moving to a quicker and more efficient charging infrastructure is the way to go. Make the charging networks accountable and responsible for supporting their networks. Again, one of the biggest gripes about EV charging is how long it takes.... settling for a current mediocre speed (albeit more reliable) that may soon become overwhelmed by demand and end up costing a lot more for many users is not the answer.

 

[par11768]

No, keeping the eye on the ball and moving to a quicker and more efficient charging infrastructure is the way to go. Make the charging networks accountable and responsible for supporting their networks. Again, one of the biggest gripes about EV charging is how long it takes.... settling for a current mediocre speed (albeit more reliable) that may soon become overwhelmed by demand and end up costing a lot more for many users is not the answer.

What is this quicker, more efficient charginng infrastructure you propose? Should the charging companies all adopt the Lucid standard, a company that sells very few cars? How would you make the networks accountable. The existing Supercharger network is reliable, available in many locations, expanding and will slowly move to higher voltage charging. Lucid needs to sell more cars and can't wait for some theoretical future efficent network to make people comfortable they can travel with their cars. The other manufacturers have recognized this. Again, making an announcement has no downside, but holding out does.

 

[xponents]

What is this quicker, more efficient charginng infrastructure you propose? Should the charging companies all adopt the Lucid standard, a company that sells very few cars? How would you make the networks accountable. The existing Supercharger network is reliable, available in many locations, expanding and will slowly move to higher voltage charging. Lucid needs to sell more cars and can't wait for some theoretical future efficent network to make people comfortable they can travel with their cars. The other manufacturers have recognized this. Again, making an announcement has no downside, but holding out does.

Sorry, but wtf are you talking about? Lucid may announce WHEN they get high voltage charging(not like Tesla holds its promises well).. and anyways we have access to v4 superchargers with magic dock. I do not see the point of doing such an early move to nacs when all it does is limit our options. You can still use new scs.

 

[Adnillien]

Only downside seems to be the CEO giving into Tesla. Ego is a lousy way to run a business.

There is zero evidence that Ego from either company is holding up a NACS announcement. The plug can now be used without any agreement with Tesla but access to the Tesla Supercharger Network does require an agreement with Tesla.

The existing Supercharger network is reliable, available in many locations, expanding and will slowly move to higher voltage charging.

One key question is how soon higher voltage superchargers will be available. Cybertruck supposedly uses a 800 volt battery and may start deliveries soon but there are zero 1000V Tesla Superchargers. V4 chargers are supposed to be capable of it but the cabinets to support it are not being deployed. It seems like the only thing that may push Tesla to higer voltage is NEVI fudning. Who knows how long it will be before we see any 1000v Tesla Superchargers and I don't think that a 50kW charging experience is a good experience for Lucid owners.

 

[par11768]

Sorry, but wtf are you talking about? Lucid may announce WHEN they get high voltage charging(not like Tesla holds its promises well).. and anyways we have access to v4 superchargers with magic dock. I do not see the point of doing such an early move to nacs when all it does is limit our options. You can still use new scs.

Please visit this link and count the number of chargers open to non Tesla vehicles. https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bo...5625&zoom=6&search=supercharger&filters=party This is not a solution.

Lucid is a business that is failing by every economic measure. Lucid is not selling sufficient cars and is bleeding cash, an SUV is a year away and will cost over 100K, limiting sales, and a mass market car is years away. I hope the company succeeds. Love the car. The company needs to sell cars. The company has no leverage to wait for or demand high voltage charging from anyone. They should be pulling every lever they can to sell more cars. Announcing they will support NACS will help sell cars. All the other automakers have recognized this.

 

[par11768]

There is zero evidence that Ego from either company is holding up a NACS announcement. The plug can now be used without any agreement with Tesla but access to the Tesla Supercharger Network does require an agreement with Tesla.


One key question is how soon higher voltage superchargers will be available. Cybertruck supposedly uses a 800 volt battery and may start deliveries soon but there are zero 1000V Tesla Superchargers. V4 chargers are supposed to be capable of it but the cabinets to support it are not being deployed. It seems like the only thing that may push Tesla to higer voltage is NEVI fudning. Who knows how long it will be before we see any 1000v Tesla Superchargers and I don't think that a 50kW charging experience is a good experience for Lucid owners.

You are not looking at the situation from the perspective of the average buyer who has no idea that an 900v architecture will only charge at 50kw on the Tesla network. Hyundai/Kia run higher voltages and have announced support because they understand that buyers are looking for this capability in the future and see the ability to access reliable chargers as a reason to buy their cars. Lucid needs to sell more cars to be successful. What is the downside?

 

[hydbob]

You are not looking at the situation from the perspective of the average buyer who has no idea that an 900v architecture will only charge at 50kw on the Tesla network. Hyundai/Kia run higher voltages and have announced support because they understand that buyers are looking for this capability in the future and see the ability to access reliable chargers as a reason to buy their cars. Lucid needs to sell more cars to be successful. What is the downside?

Seems like you are saying the company should mislead their customers and subject them to a poor charging experience. Almost like we are experiencing now with EA. How much crap has Lucid gotten because of EA, but at least we can blame EA. This time around it would be Lucid catching all the shit for this. I don't think you are thinking it through clearly.

 

[joec]

You are not looking at the situation from the perspective of the average buyer who has no idea that an 900v architecture will only charge at 50kw on the Tesla network. Hyundai/Kia run higher voltages and have announced support because they understand that buyers are looking for this capability in the future and see the ability to access reliable chargers as a reason to buy their cars. Lucid needs to sell more cars to be successful. What is the downside?

The downside is disappointing customers when they plug into a Supercharger and realize it will be two hours before they have enough charge to move on.

This conversation has been done to death here. I suggest you do a search and read the many, many arguments already presented for why NACS is not a high priority for Lucid at the moment.

I think most here agree eventually everyone will move to the NACS plug. But until that plug is more capable of producing higher voltage (something that has never been proven by Tesla, by the way) it makes little sense to pre-announce the change.

Lucid will have a strategy for this move in the future. Right now, there’s zero evidence not announcing the change is having any impact on sales.

 

[quantum]

From Lucid's perspective this should be a simple up vs downside analysis of adoptiing the standard. What is the downside of Lucid announcing they will support NACS? Only downside seems to be the CEO giving into Tesla. Ego is a lousy way to run a business. In terms of upside, virtually all of the EV manufacturers delivering prodcut have endorsed the standard. The standard is being adopted by the other charging networks, so the majority of charging ports in this country will evolve to NACS over the next few years. People are hesitant to purchase EVs because of the lack of reliable, available chargers and the horror stories of using EA chargetrs. Charging at 50KW is better than getting stranded. They might actually sell more cars.....

Seems like a pretty straight forward business decision.

Almost all the companies that adopted the standard use 400V architecture. They just took the " easy way out " by caving in to Tesla. They didn't want to invest in 700-900V electricals. If you can't beat them, join them! If you want faster charging you need the 1000V support that Tesla will not install for the forseeable future. The sensible thing to do is not do a knee jerk reaction. Why invest in new charge port that does not add any benefit?

EA actually seems to be improving its charging stations. I had a perfect experience recently.

The Saudis are building a countrywide EV charging infrastructure. I see a lot of Lucids being sold in the Middle East.

 

[Adnillien]

Speed of charging is very important to some owners. I can easily drive 800 miles in a day in an Ice car. I can do the same on some routes in my AGT but not all routes that I would like to take. Charging at 50kW does not enable that so I do not see the benefit of the current low voltage Tesla network.

 

[xponents]

Speed of charging is very important to some owners. I can easily drive 800 miles in a day in an Ice car. I can do the same on some routes in my AGT but not all routes that I would like to take. Charging at 50kW does not enable that so I do not see the benefit of the current low voltage Tesla network.

..and any high voltage superchargers(v4) will have ccs standard along with nacs. I do not understand this debate.

 

[Snafu]

Speed of charging is very important to some owners.

This.

These arguments have all seemed to be "distance centric", and the bottom line is that there is a capability to have a NACS adapter for those who are content with the 50 kW when necessary. Step back and look at the overall goal of EV adoption - mass conversion to a climate friendly/friendlier mode of transportation. There is a huge population which does not have access to nor the financial ability to have a home charger, and their daily commute or driving would force charging stops on a daily or near-daily basis. Making a stop and having time to grab a cup of coffee or use the facilities is different than having enough time to make inroads into the latest book you're reading or take the whole family to dinner (while people are queueing up staring daggers at you because they're trying to get home).

The 50 kW charger is here, and that is fine for those wanting to drive a Model T, but my thoughts are that people reached for the Cadillac, Buick, Mustang, or Ferrari (and beyond) which would demand more speed and efficiency. Much as Tesla is/was an icon, there is a future beyond it. Now is the time to reimagine that infrastructure demand and speed and future-proof it, not hobble it with a first-generation standard.

P.S. My dryer doesn't work on my 110v outlet. Think about that.

 

[DBV]

I definitely want Lucid to adapt NACS. The NACS plug itself is so much better than CCS. It is much smaller and instantly plugs in. CCS is very large and in IMHO does not plug in easily. To me it is a no brainer move that everyone should adopt.

 

[xponents]

I definitely want Lucid to adapt NACS. The NACS plug itself is so much better than CCS. It is much smaller and instantly plugs in. CCS is very large and in IMHO does not plug in easily. To me it is a no brainer move that everyone should adopt.

They should, just not now.

 

[joec]

I definitely want Lucid to adapt NACS. The NACS plug itself is so much better than CCS. It is much smaller and instantly plugs in. CCS is very large and in IMHO does not plug in easily. To me it is a no brainer move that everyone should adopt.

Again, once someone demonstrates the NACS plug actually charging at 1000v, I completely agree.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Please visit this link and count the number of chargers open to non Tesla vehicles. https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bo...5625&zoom=6&search=supercharger&filters=party This is not a solution.

USA - 35, Canada - 2

The list may double next year.

 

[koflo]

Why can’t lucid adopt an onboard converter when they adopt NACS just like taycan? Wouldn’t that enable 150kw charging for anything 400v? Seems like a sensible ask to me and the best of both worlds.