They likely can… with a full hardware redesign.Why can’t lucid adopt an onboard converter when they adopt NACS just like taycan? Wouldn’t that enable 150kw charging for anything 400v? Seems like a sensible ask to me and the best of both worlds.
They likely can… with a full hardware redesign.Why can’t lucid adopt an onboard converter when they adopt NACS just like taycan? Wouldn’t that enable 150kw charging for anything 400v? Seems like a sensible ask to me and the best of both worlds.
What is the "Lucid Standard?"What is this quicker, more efficient charginng infrastructure you propose? Should the charging companies all adopt the Lucid standard, a company that sells very few cars? How would you make the networks accountable. The existing Supercharger network is reliable, available in many locations, expanding and will slowly move to higher voltage charging. Lucid needs to sell more cars and can't wait for some theoretical future efficent network to make people comfortable they can travel with their cars. The other manufacturers have recognized this. Again, making an announcement has no downside, but holding out does.
150 kW DC to DC converters are neither cheap or light weight. Hence, it will both increase cost and decrease efficiency because of the extra weight. 1000V charging networks make more sense.They likely can… with a full hardware redesign.
Makes two of us...and any high voltage superchargers(v4) will have ccs standard along with nacs. I do not understand this debate.
It’s not really a debate any longer. We are at the early stages of charger deployment. Settling on one standard so any EV can go to any charger is the most efficient use of resources. Just as I can go to any gas station. As the vast majority of stations and cars move to NACS, stations will stop having the added cost of multiple cables/connectors. New NACS deployments will be at higher voltage and over time older stations will be upgraded. Once VW announces NACS, for all practical purposes, CCS will be a legacy standard. Over time fewer and fewer stations will have CCS cables just as fewer and fewer have CHAdeMO. Those with CCS cars will carry an adapter, just as some of us now carry a “Tesla Tap”. NACS like it or not, will be the standard for the US...and any high voltage superchargers(v4) will have ccs standard along with nacs. I do not understand this debate.
I am not contesting that Lucid should eventually switch to NACS. The connector is much smaller, lighter, and aesthetically better, all of which are important for first time EV buyers. However, Lucid should not be announcing this now to cannibalize their car's sales and also to figure out if it is really 1000v like promised. If it is, then by all means Lucid can announce in 2024 for 2025 launch date. Now however, all we are doing is adding nothing and taking away all CCS options, considering that HV SC's will have CCS as well.It’s not really a debate any longer. We are at the early stages of charger deployment. Settling on one standard so any EV can go to any charger is the most efficient use of resources. Just as I can go to any gas station. As the vast majority of stations and cars move to NACS, stations will stop having the added cost of multiple cables/connectors. New NACS deployments will be at higher voltage and over time older stations will be upgraded. Once VW announces NACS, for all practical purposes, CCS will be a legacy standard. Over time fewer and fewer stations will have CCS cables just as fewer and fewer have CHAdeMO. Those with CCS cars will carry an adapter, just as some of us now carry a “Tesla Tap”. NACS like it or not, will be the standard for the US.
You’re not taking away any CCS options by announcing now.I am not contesting that Lucid should eventually switch to NACS. The connector is much smaller, lighter, and aesthetically better, all of which are important for first time EV buyers. However, Lucid should not be announcing this now to cannibalize their car's sales and also to figure out if it is really 1000v like promised. If it is, then by all means Lucid can announce in 2024 for 2025 launch date. Now however, all we are doing is adding nothing and taking away all CCS options, considering that HV SC's will have CCS as well.
Right now, the only place with a NACS plug is a supercharger. EA's or anything else do not have them. However, soon SC's will have CCS as well, so we would be sacrificing all those CCS options and not gain anything.You’re not taking away any CCS options by announcing now.
BMW, Fisker, Ford, Genesis, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar, Kia, Lexus, Mercedes, Mini, Nissan, Polestar, Volvo, Rivian, Rolls Royce, and Toyota have all announced.
Most people still don’t know what a Lucid or CCS or NACS is.
Adding charging options is not going cannibalize sales, in fact I would argue the opposite, failure to support the predominant standard will hurt sales.
I think the above companies would agree.
Osbourne effect, and the fact that we havent seen a 1000v sc yetAnnouncing now doesn’t change the car tomorrow. We would be looking at 2025 earliest.
Once agreements are made you can have CCS to NACS and NACS to CCS once supported in software.
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Doesn’t seem to be hurting Rivian.As soon as Lucid announces NACS, people will wait for the new thing. It does not matter that a simple adapter can substitute. Hence, announcing too soon will hurt sales, not help them.
I disagree. In fact, just the opposite. I bought a Pure just 2 months ago. I almost bought a Tesla instead. The horror stories I've read, like from Out Of Spec podcasts, gave me doubt. No word from Lucid added to my doubt. I just talked myself into the Lucid since I don't make many long trips. But I can tell you EA, in my experience so far, has been a nightmare. Thank goodness for home charging. I just hope Lucid steps up, as many of their competitors already have.As soon as Lucid announces NACS, people will wait for the new thing. It does not matter that a simple adapter can substitute. Hence, announcing too soon will hurt sales, not help them.
Monopoly is a legitimate concern.After reading numerous posts, I got a sense that people who wants Lucid to adopt NACS also imply that he/she wants to use Tesla Super Charger. I have to say be careful what you are asking for. As more OEMs adopt NACS, Tesla SC network will dominate the market and thus put most EVSE companies out of business. Eventually, Tesla SC will "monopolized" the EVSE market. They could increase kW/Hr rate, tack on miscellaneous fees just to use their network. We'll then complaining about service, cost and wonder why there isn't competition in the EVSE space. We see this with mobile service provider, internet service provider, US airlines, on and on.
Tesla was essentially a practical EV monopoly (cheaper Nissan Leaf is no competition because not practical to drive from coast to coast)."And when the monopoly becomes expensive, other competitors will rise up to fill the vacuum."
Oh only if we wish this statement is true. Our business climate allows big businesses swallow up smaller businesses. We will end up with "too big to fail" scenario with EVSE.
So I was in full agreement of this recently.Again, once someone demonstrates the NACS plug actually charging at 1000v, I completely agree.
Not a good analogy. When you can instal a charger that works for all cars you will have the largest possible addressable market. Included free charging will go away and charging stations will compete for business. Who has bought a car with included gasoline? When Teslas or any other EV do not have free charging included, charging will become more competitive. Houses will be built with level 2 chargers and apartment complexes will add level 2 charging as residents choose complexes with chargers. There is plenty of power for level 2, and for 99% of driving level 2 is perfect. 99% of all trips are less than 100 miles from home.After reading numerous posts, I got a sense that people who wants Lucid to adopt NACS also imply that he/she wants to use Tesla Super Charger. I have to say be careful what you are asking for. As more OEMs adopt NACS, Tesla SC network will dominate the market and thus put most EVSE companies out of business. Eventually, Tesla SC will "monopolized" the EVSE market. They could increase kW/Hr rate, tack on miscellaneous fees just to use their network. We'll then complaining about service, cost and wonder why there isn't competition in the EVSE space. We see this with mobile service provider, internet service provider, US airlines, on and on.
So I was in full agreement of this recently.
Having the 50 kw is better than nothing, if Lucid does announce the change to NACS, wouldn't that just mean we have an additional place to charge? The CCS chargers will still all work, but now we can go to NACS with an adapter right? That's what I assume.