NACS Megathread

[MorganB]

You can buy an adapter from a non-Tesla source, but it doesn't work because Tesla protocol would detect that you are not using Magic Dock and your car's company has not signed the NACS deal.

See above. Providing an adapter won't work with Supercharger because 1) Not Magic Dock, 2) Lucid didn't sign the NACS deal.

Signing a NACS will not enable a Supercharger to work with an adapter.

 

[Rob Stark]

Signing a NACS will not enable a Supercharger to work with an adapter.

If Lucid signed a NACS deal with Tesla then Lucid cars could use all the North American Superchargers with an adapter at ~ 50 kW on the specified date in the deal.

Lucid could adapt their inverter to up the kW or Tesla could adapt the V1,V2,V3 Superchargers to increase power.

V4 Superchargers should allow Lucid cars to charge at 300 kW.

 

[MorganB]

If Lucid signed a NACS deal with Tesla then Lucid cars could use all the North American Superchargers with an adapter at ~ 50 kW on the specified date in the deal.

In 2025. Not now. A lot can happen between now and then.

 

[Rob Stark]

In 2025. Not now. A lot can happen between now and then.

GM and Ford should start using the Supercharger network in late Q1 2024.

Toyota signed later and will not have their software ready til 2025. Lucid, being a CA startup, should be able to move much faster on the software front than Toyota.

What pray tell do you foresee possibly happening between now and 2025?

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

What pray tell do you foresee possibly happening between now and 2025?

The end of civilization ?

Good time to get a Lucid if you are on the fence.

YOLO

...

 

[MorganB]

GM and Ford should start using the Supercharger network in late Q1 2024.

Toyota signed later and will not have their software ready til 2025. Lucid, being a CA startup, should be able to move much faster on the software front than Toyota.

What prey tell do you foresee possibly happening between now and 2025?

GM and Ford are quick to promise and slow to deliver. We will see when this much storied charging network is actually fully functional with Ford and GM EVs.

Lucid could easily sign at any point if they choose to do so. Other networks are coming. Lucid is holding out for a faster charging standard for obvious reasons. Keep in mind most people think the Air charges at 350kw from zero to 100 percent until they actually buy one. Managing expectations of charging speed on the supercharger network will be a nightmare.

 

[Jonathan S.]

If Lucid signed a NACS deal with Tesla then Lucid cars could use all the North American Superchargers with an adapter at ~ 50 kW on the specified date in the deal.

Lucid could adapt their inverter to up the kW or Tesla could adapt the V1,V2,V3 Superchargers to increase power.

V4 Superchargers should allow Lucid cars to charge at 300 kW.

Only the ~12,000 V3 250kW Superchargers (in the U.S. and Canada) will work with CCS1 EV models.
(Although that's still a whole lotta chargers!)
The V1 and V2 Superchargers do not support CCS communication protocols.

Going forward, Lucid could modify its vehicles to support speeds faster than 50kW on V3 Superchargers.
This is what Porsche offers as an option on the Taycan.
Could Lucid offer this as a retrofit at a cost that registers favorably on the WorthItMeter? I have no idea.

 

[Jonathan S.]

GM and Ford should start using the Supercharger network in late Q1 2024.

Toyota signed later and will not have their software ready til 2025. Lucid, being a CA startup, should be able to move much faster on the software front than Toyota.

What pray tell do you foresee possibly happening between now and 2025?

The delayed access for Toyota, Hyundai, and BMW appears to be imposed by Tesla.

The adapters announced so far are passive:

The Typhoon Plug : NACS to CCS1 adapter - Updates & Information

Timeline of events : 2022 September: Commencement of brainstorming on the concept and feasibility of the project. October: Development of initial drawings. November: Creation of functionality and wiring diagrams. December 9th: Completion of the initial sample design. 2023 February: Initiation of...

a2zevshop.com

Lectron Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter | Vortex Plug | 500A | 1000V

Shop our Lectron Vortex Plug Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter. Get fast delivery and best prices.

ev-lectron.com

So essentially the same as a Magic Dock.
Just have to buy it on your own (or have it supplied for free by some car manufacturers, as already announced so far), carry it with you (as with a Tesla Destination Adapter), and affix (and remove) it yourself (ditto).

Software implementation on the CCS1 EV model side?
That does not appear to be necessary.
Same as with the current Magic Dock stations.
Instead, just as with a Magic Dock, Tesla needs to modify the app to allow non-Tesla account holders to be recognized by V3 Superchargers.
And block CCS1 EV models from car manufacturers whose access has not yet been allowed.
(Otherwise, could just start using the Lectron adapter in January.)

But as previously noted, all of this is entirely moot if civilization ends between now and 2025.
(Or even between now and 2024!)

 

[Jonathan S.]

GM and Ford are quick to promise and slow to deliver. We will see when this much storied charging network is actually fully functional with Ford and GM EVs.

[...]

GM and Ford don't have to delivery anything. This is all on Tesla's end.
As for Tesla being quick to promise and slow to deliver, on vehicles, yes, that's for sure!
On Superchargers though in recent years, Tesla sure seems to deliver.
And given that the Magic Dock access already works fine for all CCS1 EV models, sure seems like a simple matter to open access to the V3 Superchargers on a BYO adapter basis.
(The only potentially tricky part would be keeping out the CCS1 EV models whose manufacturers have no yet entered into agreements with Tesla, or whose access is delayed b/c they were comparatively late in entering into those agreements compared to other manufacturers.)

 

[Tesla2.0]

 

[Tesla2.0]

Simple answer: When tesla actually releases its 1000v superchargers. It sucks, I know, just announce NACS for 2026 or something when v4 sc's exist!

V4 station is actually starting to deploying in South Carolina, Oregon and Alabama right now at this point. There are sightings of these new stations. In Europe, they are coming to Netherland and England.

Theoretically, it can deliver 615kW speed at 615 amp at 1000 volt. But it will be capped at 250kW for now.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Have to option to charge @50kw is better than nothing, but I still suspect the large majority of Lucid's ownerbase will have home charging available.

Good point and it could be what's holding up an announcement

Are people going to be okay with 50kw charging speeds and hogging chargers for an hour or 2?

Otherwise, I am all for it!

I’m ok with 50kW speed as long as it works and as reliable as TSCN!

On my recent trip going from Houston to Dallas to Vegas. This was the ONLY 1 CCS in 120 miles radius at city of Wichita Falls. If this stall has failed, I would have to go to Level-2 asking Cadillac dealership for a favor. There was a nearby Tesla Super Charging Station with who knows how many abundant stalls over there and a CCS in Frederic town, but PlugShare showed it was not working.

City of 200k population, ONLY 1 CCS stall!!! Who would even want to buy Bolt or Lightning to home charge there even with $7500 tax credit rebate?

Yes, I could be safe driving Interstate to Oklahoma City then to Amarillo so I can use many EA; but I rather take the short cut! Who wouldn’t to save distance?! Little did I know I would faced a major hailing thunderstorm hitting my range going into that northern Texas.

50kW station is still better than Level-2. Sometimes, that 45min ~ 1 hrs extra charge can get you to the next station.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Why would you trust Musk? He hasn’t delivered on many of his promises. Those will take up a whole page but you know them.

Cybertruck will be a flop in my opinion. Looks ugly, not functional as a real truck and will be much more expensive than the $40k that was promised.

Companies that are switching to NACS either have inferior 400V tech or desperate. NACS is just a plug!

Never trust Musk! Good example, he scammed his customers out of 7.5k- 15k for FSD which doesn’t work! Robotaxis are coming he said in 2016 and released a video of a Tesla driving on its own which was false…in my book that is called lying!

There is zero evidence of this. Just pointing that out. Let's try to avoid making wild speculations about why this or that decision gets made.

Although Musk often over-promised and under-delivered, he is merely a great salesman CEO pushing for his Tesla shareholders to sell company product. But in world of electrification Musk will push relentlessly for Tesla’s mission statement — “TO ACCELERATE THE WORLD’S TRANSITION TO SUSTAINABLE ENERGY.”

Tesla shareholders fanbois may not like it. Their invested Tesla company had foresight to have energy delivery solution when knowing mass production will hit that road facing charging issue, so they anticipated and provided that solution. Likewise too for Rivian making Rivian Adventure Network for Rivian product only.
Tesla fanbois were angry to about to lose their privilege of sharing stations with Bolts Lightning truck soon in a year, but at least Tesla can make $$$ from charging as another good revenue streaming.

This has nothing to do with trust. Yes, Lucid can be concerned about Tesla getting all the marketing data such as credit card info and owners’ addresses for whoever uses TSCN, but it’s better than getting frustrated owning an EV and return to ICE

Recently, Ford CEO Jim Farley took family road-trip and talked to other CCS EV owners at EA stations, and he listened, listened and listened to complaints and took the leap of faith to be first to adopt NACS. People don’t want to buy CCS EV to deal with inconvenience. Their notion of charging is akready more inconvenient than getting gas. Surely, I own Lucid AGT will face least inconvenience than other CCS because of range, but it doesn’t mean the new ICE-to-EV shoppers don’t have stigma to stay away. Jim Farley understood this.

 

[Tesla2.0]

GM and Ford should start using the Supercharger network in late Q1 2024.

Toyota signed later and will not have their software ready til 2025. Lucid, being a CA startup, should be able to move much faster on the software front than Toyota.

What pray tell do you foresee possibly happening between now and 2025?

Only the ~12,000 V3 250kW Superchargers (in the U.S. and Canada) will work with CCS1 EV models.
(Although that's still a whole lotta chargers!)
The V1 and V2 Superchargers do not support CCS communication protocols.

Going forward, Lucid could modify its vehicles to support speeds faster than 50kW on V3 Superchargers.
This is what Porsche offers as an option on the Taycan.
Could Lucid offer this as a retrofit at a cost that registers favorably on the WorthItMeter? I have no idea.

The delayed access for Toyota, Hyundai, and BMW appears to be imposed by Tesla.

The adapters announced so far are passive:

The Typhoon Plug : NACS to CCS1 adapter - Updates & Information

Timeline of events : 2022 September: Commencement of brainstorming on the concept and feasibility of the project. October: Development of initial drawings. November: Creation of functionality and wiring diagrams. December 9th: Completion of the initial sample design. 2023 February: Initiation of...

a2zevshop.com

Lectron Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter | Vortex Plug | 500A | 1000V

Shop our Lectron Vortex Plug Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter. Get fast delivery and best prices.

ev-lectron.com

So essentially the same as a Magic Dock.
Just have to buy it on your own (or have it supplied for free by some car manufacturers, as already announced so far), carry it with you (as with a Tesla Destination Adapter), and affix (and remove) it yourself (ditto).

Software implementation on the CCS1 EV model side?
That does not appear to be necessary.
Same as with the current Magic Dock stations.
Instead, just as with a Magic Dock, Tesla needs to modify the app to allow non-Tesla account holders to be recognized by V3 Superchargers.
And block CCS1 EV models from car manufacturers whose access has not yet been allowed.
(Otherwise, could just start using the Lectron adapter in January.)

But as previously noted, all of this is entirely moot if civilization ends between now and 2025.
(Or even between now and 2024!)

Tesla currently only has 12,000 stalls in V3, The other 38,000 stalls of V1 and V2 won’t ever work with CCS cars like Lucid.

But that’s world wide numbers. In USA, Tesla has about 1900 stations and 20,000 stalls, Electrify America has 840 stations and 3700 stalls and EA is working on getting to 1000 stations in the next few months. Currently Tesla can charge CCS using adapter at Electrify America and EVGo, but Lucid and other CCS EV can only charge at Tesla station with MagicDock only.

Unless they adopt NACS and programmed into Tesla SC Network. To me having “more options” is also part of definition of “luxury”. Tesla has luxury of using more stations on the road, and that is optic to the new EV shoppers.

 

[Snafu]

This is just another race to the bottom if all these companies are "switching" to NACS without demanding accelerated upgrades/installation of V4 level chargers. What is the biggest complaint (aside from range) that is preventing ICE owners' swap to EVs? It's availability/time spent charging. Several of the EV companies have factored in the future and gone to a high voltage architecture, and they are now literally allowing the "gas stations" to turn the spigots into straws.

Musk did have the foresight to have the infrastructure in place, but by putting a proprietary charging connection in place, he has hamstrung the adoption process. My next comment is not political. Allowing one company to hijack and control the supply of anything is a recipe for disaster long-term.

I have the luxury of extended range AND the ability to charge at home, but a large percentage of people that own/want to own an EV will be dependent on public charging stations. How would you like an hour (minimum, not counting waiting in line) added to your commute a couple days a week? Who remembers the gas shortage lines back in the 70s?

 

[Tesla2.0]

This is just another race to the bottom if all these companies are "switching" to NACS without demanding accelerated upgrades/installation of V4 level chargers. What is the biggest complaint (aside from range) that is preventing ICE owners' swap to EVs? It's availability/time spent charging. Several of the EV companies have factored in the future and gone to a high voltage architecture, and they are now literally allowing the "gas stations" to turn the spigots into straws.

Musk did have the foresight to have the infrastructure in place, but by putting a proprietary charging connection in place, he has hamstrung the adoption process. My next comment is not political. Allowing one company to hijack and control the supply of anything is a recipe for disaster long-term.

I have the luxury of extended range AND the ability to charge at home, but a large percentage of people that own/want to own an EV will be dependent on public charging stations. How would you like an hour (minimum, not counting waiting in line) added to your commute a couple days a week? Who remembers the gas shortage lines back in the 70s?

Indeed, I would say EV is not for everyone, especially apartment dwellers who have to go crowd at charging stations. I wouldn’t want to wait ti put fuel in my car every week.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Musk did have the foresight to have the infrastructure in place, but by putting a proprietary charging connection in place, he has hamstrung the adoption process. My next comment is not political. Allowing one company to hijack and control the supply of anything is a recipe for disaster long-term.

True, Tesla can be monopoly of energy delivery service if everyone changes to NACS and only charges at TSCN stations. But EA, EVGO and ChargePoint are also providing NACS dispenser very soon. Since TSCN stations have proven more reliable than other brands (except RAN imo), it’s faster adoption if people can crowd in their station stalls. I can assure you many apartment residents who own Tesla are not happy about this. They bought Tesla over CCS for that reason. Their privilege will soon be gone in a year or 2.

 

[hydbob]

True, Tesla can be monopoly of energy delivery service if everyone changes to NACS and only charges at TSCN stations. But EA, EVGO and ChargePoint are also providing NACS dispenser very soon. Since TSCN stations have proven more reliable than other brands (except RAN imo), it’s faster adoption if people can crowd in their station stalls. I can assure you many apartment residents who own Tesla are not happy about this. They bought Tesla over CCS for that reason. Their privilege will soon be gone in a year or 2.

The monopoly is what is worrisome.

 

[Jonathan S.]

How can Tesla achieve a DCFC monopoly when all the current CCS1 chargers and all the upcoming non-TSCN NACS chargers are accessible to all CCS1 EV models, Tesla models since 2020, and all the upcoming non-Tesla NACS models?
Sure, all the DCFC networks other than TSCN are generally miserable in the U.S., but the widespread prevalence of an inferior product isn’t a monopoly.

 

[quantum]

This is just another race to the bottom if all these companies are "switching" to NACS without demanding accelerated upgrades/installation of V4 level chargers. What is the biggest complaint (aside from range) that is preventing ICE owners' swap to EVs? It's availability/time spent charging. Several of the EV companies have factored in the future and gone to a high voltage architecture, and they are now literally allowing the "gas stations" to turn the spigots into straws.

Musk did have the foresight to have the infrastructure in place, but by putting a proprietary charging connection in place, he has hamstrung the adoption process. My next comment is not political. Allowing one company to hijack and control the supply of anything is a recipe for disaster long-term.

I have the luxury of extended range AND the ability to charge at home, but a large percentage of people that own/want to own an EV will be dependent on public charging stations. How would you like an hour (minimum, not counting waiting in line) added to your commute a couple days a week? Who remembers the gas shortage lines back in the 70s?

Agree, Musk is SMART! But that doesn't mean he is to be trusted or right. With all these manufactureres adopting for NACS, I feel it is a knee jerk reaction. Musk aim is to make 400V architecture relevant as long as possible. He doesnt want to engineer higher voltage into his cars right now. This is a way to prolong 400V relevance.

And some of the 700-900V manufacturers fell for his trick!

I would like to see CCS vehicle manufacturers give EA a big kick up its butt! VW should be ashamed. Dieselgate and now this. I'm never buying from the group again.