NACS Megathread

[Adnillien]

So a couple questions for the group
There are already adapters for CCS to NACS. Will equipping these on the Lucid allow for charging at Tesla without any other modifications?
Because of the voltage difference, you would be limited to 50kW charging. Is that a theoretical maximum or are you actually getting that ? For example at 150kW EA chargers, I'm lucky to get 85 kW and even then I think it's slow. So getting 50kW would not be much worse than EA.
If it's a marketing thing, I guess Lucid could provide an adapter so that the cars can be said to be "NACS compatible", if that sells more cars. It would probably be rarely used and could be provided/sold for earlier models which would cost less than retrofitting.
Be careful about declaring a "winner" for the charging standard - look what has happened to the apple lightning charger!

The actual charging rate will be in the mid 40kW range. The car will take up to 50kW but once conversion losses along with battery thermal management are accounted for, approximately 45kW will be going into the battery.

 

[Volund]

There are already adapters for CCS to NACS. Will equipping these on the Lucid allow for charging at Tesla without any other modifications?

I used to think this as well, but unfortunately not.
It's not a simple software limitation, there actually controls and other protocols on Tesla's side that they did not account for in the chargers. That's why magic dock Tesla stations exist and why Tesla couldn't simply do a software update to make Tesla support CCS vehicles.

 

[scal_air]

Thank you. So just checked with a level 2 charger - pulls 8-9kW with an estimated 30mi/hr of charging. So 5X that (40-45kW) would give 150mi/hr? Wouldn't normally go for that unless the situation was really bad....

 

[Tâm]

So a couple questions for the group
There are already adapters for CCS to NACS. Will equipping these on the Lucid allow for charging at Tesla without any other modifications?

The only working Supercharger adapters are the ones kept at the Supercharger stalls called Magic Dock and you have to use Tesla's app. You cannot take the Magic Dock home. Tesla doesn't sell it.

You can buy an adapter from a non-Tesla source, but it doesn't work because Tesla protocol would detect that you are not using Magic Dock and your car's company has not signed the NACS deal.

Otherwise, there's no need for modifications.

Because of the voltage difference, you would be limited to 50kW charging. Is that a theoretical maximum or are you actually getting that ? For example at 150kW EA chargers, I'm lucky to get 85 kW and even then I think it's slow. So getting 50kW would not be much worse than EA.

Consumer Reports did it during the cold winter while the snow was still on the ground and got only 49 instead of 50kW:

“I was limited to 49kW on all charge attempts, both with and without preconditioning the battery,” Alex said. “I suspect this is a result of Lucid’s 900-volt charging system, which can only accept 50kW from older, legacy 400-volt charging networks.” Lucid claims that under ideal conditions, the Air can add 200 miles of range in about 12 minutes of charging. It would have taken well over an hour to add the same amount of range at that 49 kW rate.

If it's a marketing thing, I guess Lucid could provide an adapter so that the cars can be said to be "NACS compatible", if that sells more cars. It would probably be rarely used and could be provided/sold for earlier models which would cost less than retrofitting.

See above. Providing an adapter won't work with Supercharger because 1) Not Magic Dock, 2) Lucid didn't sign the NACS deal.

 

[scal_air]

I used to think this as well, but unfortunately not.
It's not a simple software limitation, there actually controls and other protocols on Tesla's side that they did not account for in the chargers. That's why magic dock Tesla stations exist and why Tesla couldn't simply do a software update to make Tesla support CCS vehicles.

Yeah that would have been too simple.

 

[Tâm]

...Wouldn't normally go for that unless the situation was really bad....

It's just like a doughnut spare tire I wouldn't want to use unless I have a flat.

 

[scal_air]

It's just like a doughnut spare tire I wouldn't want to use unless I have a flat.

Which most of us probably don't have

 

[Tâm]

Which most of us probably don't have

That might be the crux of the issue.

Lucid emphasizes the convenience of slow home charging and de-emphasizes the hype of fast charging.

"It's really important to get more overnight AC [alternating-current charging, also known as Level 2] infrastructure for those who live in apartment complexes or street park. There's too much emphasis on DC fast charging."

 

[RichMalden]

Presumably, if Lucid adopts it they'll develop their own adapter so we don't have to worry about warranty issues

 

[EVCar]

Mercedes currently does not, I believe the only other HV car is Hyundai/Kia and their EGMP.

MB actually actually has joined the chorus. Among the big names that haven't are Lucid, VW, Toyota, Stellantis, and Mazda.

 

[xponents]

MB actually actually has joined the chorus. Among the big names that haven't are Lucid, VW, Toyota, Stellantis, and Mazda.

Sorry, I should clarify. I was talking about the High Voltage NACS cars, which only Hyundai is. I stated that mercedes was not a high voltage electric car, leaving the egmp platform mates the only HV cars using NACS>

 

[Tâm]

Sorry, I should clarify. I was talking about the High Voltage NACS cars, which only Hyundai is. I stated that mercedes was not a high voltage electric car, leaving the egmp platform mates the only HV cars using NACS>

In addition to the Hyundai/Kia 800V,

Mercedes will upgrade to 800V architecture in 2025:

Mercedes to upgrade its EQE and EQS

German premium car manufacturer Mercedes-Benz will reportedly upgrade its EQE and EQS electric models to an 800-volt electrical system from 2025 onward, allowin

newmobility.news

Polestar 800V

Polestar 5 electric 4-door GT to debut exclusive new Polestar electric powertrain | Polestar

Polestar is showing a development prototype of the Polestar 5 in public for the first time at the 2022 Goodwood Festival of Speed (23-26 June). Polestar 5 is a high-performance electric 4-door GT with proper sports car credentials, and the production evolution of the Precept concept car first...

investors.polestar.com

GM is not 800V architecture, but it is compatible with both 400 and 800V with a decent rate (350kW at 800V, 250kW at 400V).

Everything We Know About GM’s Ultium Battery Technology

GM’s Ultium battery technology is a trump card for the auto giant, and this will enable it to eclipse other automakers. Here's why it's special.

www.topspeed.com

 

[xponents]

In addition to the Hyundai/Kia 800V,

Mercedes will upgrade to 800V architecture in 2025:

Mercedes to upgrade its EQE and EQS

German premium car manufacturer Mercedes-Benz will reportedly upgrade its EQE and EQS electric models to an 800-volt electrical system from 2025 onward, allowin

newmobility.news

Polestar 800V

Polestar 5 electric 4-door GT to debut exclusive new Polestar electric powertrain | Polestar

Polestar is showing a development prototype of the Polestar 5 in public for the first time at the 2022 Goodwood Festival of Speed (23-26 June). Polestar 5 is a high-performance electric 4-door GT with proper sports car credentials, and the production evolution of the Precept concept car first...

investors.polestar.com

GM is not 800V architecture, but it is compatible with both 400 and 800V with a decent rate (350kW at 800V, 250kW at 400V).

Everything We Know About GM’s Ultium Battery Technology

GM’s Ultium battery technology is a trump card for the auto giant, and this will enable it to eclipse other automakers. Here's why it's special.

www.topspeed.com

Thank you for the correction. I was not aware that mercedes was going to switch. I wonder how they will handle that upgrade, same car with different batteries or just an all new EQS model? Or maybe discontinue the s class and replace it with a new EQS?(as mercedes has been planning)

 

[Tâm]

Thank you for the correction. I was not aware that mercedes was going to switch. I wonder how they will handle that upgrade, same car with different batteries or just an all new EQS model? Or maybe discontinue the s class and replace it with a new EQS?(as mercedes has been planning)

I have no idea. It's an MMA platform. I imagine if the current design fits the MMA platform, then why not leave it the same?

Mercedes' New EV Platform Could Beat Tesla At Its Own Game: Here's Why

The new CLA Class concept will debut the new platform, but Mercedes has a lot more on the way.

www.hotcars.com

 

[Bill55]

ChargePoint begins rolling out NACS connectors, enabling Tesla drivers to use its charger network

Global EV charging network ChargePoint has officially opened up its AC and DC piles to the most prominent electric brand...

electrek.co

 

[ZimZim]

Simple answer: When tesla actually releases its 1000v superchargers. It sucks, I know, just announce NACS for 2026 or something when v4 sc's exist!

I do a lot of road trips. On I10 from Houston to California there are only Tesla and Electrify America charging stations. Without both options you can get stranded. I would glad use any charger available rather than being stuck, so in that situation, it doesn't matter what voltage the charger is, or weather it optimizes the car's capabilities, you just want enough juice to get to the next location. Chargers are at least 100 miles apart. With availability of NACS, we'd have another option which at times could be hugely useful. Also, along that route, EA mostly has 4 chargers per station while Tesla has 8 to 40 at those same locations. EA has a waiting line and Tesla has openings. I think the real reason that Lucid hasn't switched to NACS is because of the CEOs personal grudge with Musk and that's hurting Lucid's customers.

 

[joec]

I think the real reason that Lucid hasn't switched to NACS is because of the CEOs personal grudge with Musk and that's hurting Lucid's customers.

There is zero evidence of this. Just pointing that out. Let's try to avoid making wild speculations about why this or that decision gets made.

 

[kerplunk]

My gut feeling is I don't like nacs because it's the whole industry bowing to a Tesla lead push even more, like apple with their headphone jacks.

But my desire to be able to charge overrides all of that. Tired of waiting on broken chargers and showing up and seeing a line of cars with just 4 bays. Give me a nacs adapter!

 

[racerx2095]

 

[Viking]

MB actually actually has joined the chorus. Among the big names that haven't are Lucid, VW, Toyota, Stellantis, and Mazda.

Toyota just joined.

Toyota Adopts the North American Charging Standard to Expand Customer Charging Options