NACS Megathread

[Adnillien]

Talking voltage to most customers is like talking ISO15118. People will tune it out. I agree that Lucid needs a message on NACS and the Tesla network that customers can appreciate. However, most new EV buyers probably cannot tell the difference between CCS and NACS. NACS will become the standard so Lucid will move that way but I don’t think staying on CCS for now is hurting them.

 

[Rob Stark]

I think it's more that every car company doing a deal with Musk essentially kills his incentive to move the network to v4 (and thus 1000v) faster. Why would he care, once everyone has already announced the switch?

There's Cybertruck, but I get the feeling actual sales of Cybertruck are going to be underwhelming now that Rivian, F150, and many more are coming online.

Better if they had all gotten together and held out until there was a clear timeline for that upgrade. Not that anyone could trust it, given Tesla's history.

Also, I'd want EA's and Chargepoint's, etc. timeline as well.

Personally, I think Lucid is the only company being smart about this. Getting in bed with Musk is a rookie mistake.

Cybertruck will be the first not the last Tesla vehicle to move to 1000v.

I think Cybertruck sales will be smashing success. Lightning demand is already feeling the force of Cybertruck's immanent debut.

Even if Cybertruck sales where underwhelming Tesla will simply release a conventional truck.

Refusing to offer your BEV customers access to Superchargers and NACS because you think "getting in bed with Musk is a rookie mistake" is sophomoric defiance.

 

[Adnillien]

Refusing to offer your BEV customers access to Superchargers and NACS because you think "getting in bed with Musk is a rookie mistake" is sophomoric defiance.

I hope that you are not calling anyone here Sophomoric since personal attacks are not allowed on the forum. Pleas reread the guidelines.

 

[Volund]

I think that would be a mistake. CCS is going to be viewed as a reason not to buy a Lucid. It would be ok to implement with 2026 models, but announcing the change and shipping cars with an adapter needs to happen now.

Are people going to be okay with 50kw charging speeds and hogging chargers for an hour or 2?

Otherwise, I am all for it!

 

[stratus]

Are people going to be okay with 50kw charging speeds and hogging chargers for an hour or 2?

Otherwise, I am all for it!

Not at all. I think from a marketing perspective Lucid could win by announcing a future NACS capability. Not an expert, just an opinion.

 

[xponents]

I hope that you are not calling anyone here Sophomoric since personal attacks are not allowed on the forum. Pleas reread the guidelines.

Well, I am a sophomore, so it would be justified

 

[xponents]

Not at all. I think from a marketing perspective Lucid could win by announcing a future NACS capability. Not an expert, just an opinion.

Announcing things that WILL happen soon that cannibalize current model sales is never good. It is called the osborne effect, for osborne computers early on. Some teslas faced this problem in 21/22(price cuts/increases were frequent), I'd also say that windows phone messing up nokias legacy sales is an example.

 

[stratus]

Announcing things that WILL happen soon that cannibalize current model sales is never good. It is called the osborne effect, for osborne computers early on. Some teslas faced this problem in 21/22(price cuts/increases were frequent), I'd also say that windows phone messing up nokias legacy sales is an example.

Perhaps. I am not sure if Rivian’s announcement has hurt their sales, especially if a simple adapter is available.
It wouldn’t deter me , but I cannot speak for the general populace.

 

[quantum]

Cybertruck will be the first not the last Tesla vehicle to move to 1000v.

I think Cybertruck sales will be smashing success. Lightning demand is already feeling the force of Cybertruck's immanent debut.

Even if Cybertruck sales where underwhelming Tesla will simply release a conventional truck.

Refusing to offer your BEV customers access to Superchargers and NACS because you think "getting in bed with Musk is a rookie mistake" is sophomoric defiance.

Why would you trust Musk? He hasn’t delivered on many of his promises. Those will take up a whole page but you know them.

Cybertruck will be a flop in my opinion. Looks ugly, not functional as a real truck and will be much more expensive than the $40k that was promised.

Companies that are switching to NACS either have inferior 400V tech or desperate. NACS is just a plug!

Never trust Musk! Good example, he scammed his customers out of 7.5k- 15k for FSD which doesn’t work! Robotaxis are coming he said in 2016 and released a video of a Tesla driving on its own which was false…in my book that is called lying!

 

[Viking]

Being a recent Lucid Air Pure owner I was on the fence about my order due to the charging. I saw so many nightmare posts about EA in particular. So, perhaps others would like more clarity on Lucid's plans? I don't think the Osborne effect applies here. Many others have announced NACS support. I think Mercedes has a high voltage EV (EQXX), yet they have announced a switch to NACS by 2025. In the meantime, like many, they will be offering an adapter.

 

[xponents]

Perhaps. I am not sure if Rivian’s announcement has hurt their sales, especially if a simple adapter is available.
It wouldn’t deter me , but I cannot speak for the general populace.

A lot of things satisfy us(somewhat enthusiastic forum members), but more general populations will not care to do research, they just take everything surface level. For example, this is why exaggerated and misleading articles are often very popular despite being overly inaccurate or dramatic.

 

[xponents]

Being a recent Lucid Air owner (August) I was on the fence about my order due to the charging. I saw so many nightmare posts about EA in particular. So, perhaps others would like more clarity on Lucid's plans? I don't think the Osborne effect applies here. Many others have announced NACS support. I think Mercedes has a high voltage EV, yet they have announced a switch to NACS by 2025.

Mercedes currently does not, I believe the only other HV car is Hyundai/Kia and their EGMP.

 

[Bill55]

You are correct. Thus rendering the whole NACS thing moot.

But I do think for optics, some sort of eventual switch to NACS would be a good idea. Somwhere down the line, CCS will die out and start looking obsolete.

I just would advise waiting until a) 1000v NACS charging is readily available and b)I was a week away from switching out the port on all new vehicles.

There's no sense in pre-announcing this for Lucid. And they seem to agree with me.

Pretty much every charging company has already announced that they are going to support NACS. For example EA has committed to NACS at new and existing locations by 2025.
There are many times 50kW at a Tesla station would have been my best option on the road if it was possible. The reason to pre announce is to show "Lucid will be at the fore front of technology and Lucids will be able to charge at the maximum number of locations". An adapter is just plastic and metal and not expensive. Indicating that the cars will have the required software to charge at as many locations as possible is important. I will order a CCS to NACS adapter the day Lucid opens orders. 50kW is a hell of a lot better than 7-9kW at a level 2. TESLA super charger stations represent over 50% of all DC fast chargers. That's a network that has value even if it is limited to 50kW.

 

[Bobby]

Pretty much every charging company has already announced that they are going to support NACS. For example EA has committed to NACS at new and existing locations by 2025.
There are many times 50kW at a Tesla station would have been my best option on the road if it was possible. The reason to pre announce is to show "Lucid will be at the fore front of technology and Lucids will be able to charge at the maximum number of locations". An adapter is just plastic and metal and not expensive. Indicating that the cars will have the required software to charge at as many locations as possible is important. I will order a CCS to NACS adapter the day Lucid opens orders. 50kW is a hell of a lot better than 7-9kW at a level 2. TESLA super charger stations represent over 50% of all DC fast chargers. That's a network that has value even if it is limited to 50kW.

Agree. I waited an hour at EA once while there were many Tesla chargers available next door. I’d have happily taken 50kW over zero.

 

[stratus]

Pretty much every charging company has already announced that they are going to support NACS. For example EA has committed to NACS at new and existing locations by 2025.
There are many times 50kW at a Tesla station would have been my best option on the road if it was possible. The reason to pre announce is to show "Lucid will be at the fore front of technology and Lucids will be able to charge at the maximum number of locations". An adapter is just plastic and metal and not expensive. Indicating that the cars will have the required software to charge at as many locations as possible is important. I will order a CCS to NACS adapter the day Lucid opens orders. 50kW is a hell of a lot better than 7-9kW at a level 2. TESLA super charger stations represent over 50% of all DC fast chargers. That's a network that has value even if it is limited to 50kW.

Out here in the boondocks , it would come in very handy to have a few more options.

 

[Drendino]

Hey, Siri, what's the Osbourne Effect?

Ok, I just asked Siri what the Osborne effect is? I cant believe that you actually this, but so do I now!

 

[xponents]

Ok, I just asked Siri what the Osborne effect is? I cant believe that you actually this, but so do I now!

There are a bunch of obscure effects and theories, its actually really fun to research and find out about! One such is godwins law for example, which hasnt occurred in this forum. Yet.

 

[Dhimiter]

Are people going to be okay with 50kw charging speeds and hogging chargers for an hour or 2?

Otherwise, I am all for it!

I mean, is it all that different right now - either due to pesky Chevy Bolts or power-limited chargers?

 

[Volund]

Pretty much every charging company has already announced that they are going to support NACS. For example EA has committed to NACS at new and existing locations by 2025.
There are many times 50kW at a Tesla station would have been my best option on the road if it was possible. The reason to pre announce is to show "Lucid will be at the fore front of technology and Lucids will be able to charge at the maximum number of locations". An adapter is just plastic and metal and not expensive. Indicating that the cars will have the required software to charge at as many locations as possible is important. I will order a CCS to NACS adapter the day Lucid opens orders. 50kW is a hell of a lot better than 7-9kW at a level 2. TESLA super charger stations represent over 50% of all DC fast chargers. That's a network that has value even if it is limited to 50kW.

A solution like this, I can agree with. An adapter for example and the ability to use both. Best of both worlds basically.

When people usually say NACS vs CCS, they usually refer to one or the other, meaning the Lucid comes retrofitted with a NACS charging port. But even then, adapters for CCS exist and that's why sometimes Tesla cars are charging at EA

 

[scal_air]

So a couple questions for the group
There are already adapters for CCS to NACS. Will equipping these on the Lucid allow for charging at Tesla without any other modifications?
Because of the voltage difference, you would be limited to 50kW charging. Is that a theoretical maximum or are you actually getting that ? For example at 150kW EA chargers, I'm lucky to get 85 kW and even then I think it's slow. So getting 50kW would not be much worse than EA.
If it's a marketing thing, I guess Lucid could provide an adapter so that the cars can be said to be "NACS compatible", if that sells more cars. It would probably be rarely used and could be provided/sold for earlier models which would cost less than retrofitting.
Be careful about declaring a "winner" for the charging standard - look what has happened to the apple lightning charger!