RESOLVED Does your front footwell woofer work properly? TSB-B1122-001

[stratus]

There has been a tremendous amount of discussion about the sound system , with some people critical of it and others smitten.
It really seems as if the Lucid system has been maximized for the Dolby Atmos experience. If you are listening in Atmos and it still sounds off, there is likely something wrong. I have to say, that when listening to Atmos songs , I am absolutely blown away and have never heard anything like it. It’s mind boggling and downright beautiful to listen to. When listening to master quality , it’s excellent but not quite as engrossing.
As far as the volume, I can’t turn it all the way up and listen comfortably, but admit it’s a little low at “ normal volumes”. I would strongly recommend listening to Ah Ha’s Take on Me in Atmos, on Tidal. This song really shows off the system and should make you smile, even if you don’t love the song.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

This sound system in the GT & Dreams is a $4000 upgrade compared to the standard sound option in the Air Pure. I definitely expected much more for what this system costs.

Burmeister in Mercedes versus stock audio in the car is $6-9K upgrade for perspective.

 

[MoniputerLM]

I guess there’s no arguing with hyped systems that artificially crank certain things to make mediocre streaming sources sound adequate? Harman Kardon just is not capable of reproducing accurate audio. They’re solid prosumer but much like consumer Bose systems, there are massive frequency loss issues and very uneven dynamic range. You’ll get a “punch”, but anything using lower bits like the resonance of a Tom Tom or reverb in a track is just absolutely absent. Maybe my ears are programmed wrong from being in audio engineering for 9 years, but 75-80% of max volume should be where you’re listening at, as that’s how things are actually mixed in the studio. With Tidal HiFi Plus (are all those who don’t like the car’s audio really listening in this resolution or are you streaming over Bluetooth or cheap version of Spotify?) I just can’t fathom someone saying “meh, my Volvo sounds better” playing back the Atmos mix of Riders on the Storm or When Doves Cry. There’s this transparency and very broad dynamic range that you rarely hear outside of a recording studio in the car (again, 75% of volume on the wheel is how it should be, not a car dial set to 5 being loud), so I’m convinced those who are disappointed actually are either not listening in the correct format or are trying to force the car to do what lesser systems do by sounding “big” at 50% volume. It can’t be possible that so many cars somehow have a defective audio system and a small handful of owners somehow got the good system. I tested another car and it was literally identical to mine, pretty amazing they were able to achieve that level of consistency if you ask me.

I guess there’s no arguing with hyped systems that artificially crank certain things to make mediocre streaming sources sound adequate? Harman Kardon just is not capable of reproducing accurate audio. They’re solid prosumer but much like consumer Bose systems, there are massive frequency loss issues and very uneven dynamic range. You’ll get a “punch”, but anything using lower bits like the resonance of a Tom Tom or reverb in a track is just absolutely absent. Maybe my ears are programmed wrong from being in audio engineering for 9 years, but 75-80% of max volume should be where you’re listening at, as that’s how things are actually mixed in the studio. With Tidal HiFi Plus (are all those who don’t like the car’s audio really listening in this resolution or are you streaming over Bluetooth or cheap version of Spotify?) I just can’t fathom someone saying “meh, my Volvo sounds better” playing back the Atmos mix of Riders on the Storm or When Doves Cry. There’s this transparency and very broad dynamic range that you rarely hear outside of a recording studio in the car (again, 75% of volume on the wheel is how it should be, not a car dial set to 5 being loud), so I’m convinced those who are disappointed actually are either not listening in the correct format or are trying to force the car to do what lesser systems do by sounding “big” at 50% volume. It can’t be possible that so many cars somehow have a defective audio system and a small handful of owners somehow got the good system. I tested another car and it was literally identical to mine, pretty amazing they were able to achieve that level of consistency if you ask me.

The audio system in my car just doesn't sound good, to me, and telling me how sophisticated it is just doesn't change my mind, sorry. But I glad that are enjoying it.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

The audio system in my car just doesn't sound good, to me, and telling me how sophisticated it is just doesn't change my mind, sorry. But I glad that are enjoying it.

So you’re playing back Tidal HiFi Plus format mixes in the Tidal app in the car and it doesn’t sound good to you? There are definitely some Atmos mixes that actually are not good and don’t sound good, but the playlist that @hydbob posted, or even non-Atmos tracks like Yosi Horikawa’s “Bubbles” don’t sound good? I’m just not convinced that there’s some other car or system out there that makes what I’m hearing in the Lucid bad by comparison.

 

[MoniputerLM]

So you’re playing back Tidal HiFi Plus format mixes in the Tidal app in the car and it doesn’t sound good to you? There are definitely some Atmos mixes that actually are not good and don’t sound good, but the playlist that @hydbob posted, or even non-Atmos tracks like Yosi Horikawa’s “Bubbles” don’t sound good? I’m just not convinced that there’s some other car or system out there that makes what I’m hearing in the Lucid bad by comparison.

CDs that I ripped to a USB drive sound so much better in my 2018 Navigator than anything I have heard, so far, in my Lucid. SiriusXM in my wife's EQS sounds better, to me. I tried Tidal months ago and no longer have it so can't compare. I listen to Amazon music and streaming from my phone and those sources sound flat to me in the Lucid.

 

[hydbob]

CDs that I ripped to a USB drive sound so much better in my 2018 Navigator than anything I have heard, so far, in my Lucid. SiriusXM in my wife's EQS sounds better, to me. I tried Tidal months ago and no longer have it so can't compare. I listen to Amazon music and streaming from my phone and those sources sound flat to me in the Lucid.

I'd say, subscribe to Tidal for a month with the hifi plus plan and try again. Either that or something must be really wrong for siriusxm to sound better at all...

 

[Bobby]

This is another example of Lucid needing to move toward more user control, options, and info. Perhaps a full equalizer would help satisfy those who want more control over the sound.

 

[Neurio]

CDs that I ripped to a USB drive sound so much better in my 2018 Navigator than anything I have heard, so far, in my Lucid. SiriusXM in my wife's EQS sounds better, to me. I tried Tidal months ago and no longer have it so can't compare. I listen to Amazon music and streaming from my phone and those sources sound flat to me in the Lucid.

Well, you're not making full use of the sound system then. Streaming via Bluetooth is crap. You need to listen to an Atmos song in Tidal to truly hear what the system can do, as @bunnylebowski and @stratus have just said.

 

[stratus]

The thing I noticed most about the system in the Lucid, is the crispness of the sound. There is , in my experience, much more definition to music, if you are sourcing from high quality audio.
When I am in my other vehicles, there is a bit more bass but it’s a tad muffled , and I definitely notice a relative lack of definition. That is likely because I am not streaming high quality audio. This is my impression, others may disagree.

 

[windscar911]

I'm no audio engineer but I picked the speakers in my home very carefully (7.1ch Bowers & Wilkens with atmos ceiling speakers m).

It literally does not matter what source audio I pick (Bluetooth, Atmos and DD 5.1 over hdmi or digital) the speakers sound fantastic. And that's with my reciever "guessing" how to mix the channels for pure stereo input, just like the car.

At this point I'd consider myself an audio snob.

My main impression of the car's audio is that it's absolutely stunning in the backseat. It's a little bit narrow (sound stage) with limited bass extension in the front seat without Atmos.

It's not necessarily broken or faulty but it's also not blowing me away (it does in the back!).

I'm starting to just not care and enjoy it for what it's really good at. The mids and highs are probably the best in the industry. I think with one additional pair of speakers on the B pillars, I'd get the sound stage expansion I'm looking for. The bass is decent and I can chart that upto a creative design decision. It's not inadequate just not insane.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Compared to the B&W system in our Volvo, the Harman system in our Polestar... eh, I'm pretty underwhelmed.

I haven’t used the balance setting. I have been using just default. I am also not audiophile. But I can assure you my impression is the other way around when I get in our Polestar 2 cabin. I am more underwhelmed by Harmon Kardon speakers when I turn up the volume as hearing distortion when I crank it. I don’t have to turn volume up all the way bc Polestar 2 cabin is much smaller than Air’s cabin. Air in the other hand feels like in symphony hall, I can sense spatial cadence and loudness same time when I close my eyes.

It is true I sometimes escape by going to garage to my mini theater. My wife occasionally knock on the window to wake me up to go back inside to sleep.

 

[ARamsdale]

I just can’t fathom someone saying “meh, my Volvo sounds better” playing back the Atmos mix of Riders on the Storm or When Doves Cry. There’s this transparency and very broad dynamic range that you rarely hear outside of a recording studio in the car (again, 75% of volume on the wheel is how it should be, not a car dial set to 5 being loud), so I’m convinced those who are disappointed actually are either not listening in the correct format or are trying to force the car to do what lesser systems do by sounding “big” at 50% volume. It can’t be possible that so many cars somehow have a defective audio system and a small handful of owners somehow got the good system. I tested another car and it was literally identical to mine, pretty amazing they were able to achieve that level of consistency if you ask me.

It's not about artificially "cranking" things to make mediocre streaming sources sound better. It's about a broad range of sound reproduction that not only sounds true to life - the feeling that you can close your eyes and hear a sound-stage that makes you question whether or not you hear a live instrument - but also that the sound system doesn't produce any off-putting noises, knocks, and other annoyances that detract from the experience.

I apologize for not "credentializing" myself, in terms of car audio. I started my career by selling high-end aftermarket systems, before moving into the home audio world. I was MECP certified over 20 years ago now, and have listened to hundreds of thousands of car stereo systems. After moving from the sales floor to the corporate office to procure the latest home and car stereo equipment, I found myself heading to CES every year, and specifically, the Venetian towers - which anyone in the know will confirm that that is where the best-of-the-best audio systems are put on display, with incredible sound demos in order to demonstrate the capabilities of their hardware. We're not talking about the Dolby booth in the South Hall, which albeit impressive on a consumer scale, doesn't hold a candle to the reproduction of a set of Focal Grand Utopias.

So sure - I understand that you "can't fathom" someone saying that their Volvo sounds better, but if you're ever in Atlanta, I will gladly give you a side-by-side demo and clearly articulate the capabilities of both systems. Again, there's something very wrong here, especially with so many people experiencing a similar displeasing set of sound characteristics. And YES, the tweeters, horns, etc DO sound great - There are some tracks that I've been absolutely in love with on this system, but that doesn't mean that we can't expect better for everyday listening.

And yes, I'm on Tidal HiFi Plus. Yes, I've made sure that the highest streaming option is set on my profile in the car.

 

[ARamsdale]

I haven’t used the balance setting. I have been using just default. I am also not audiophile. But I can assure you my impression is the other way around when I get in our Polestar 2 cabin. I am more underwhelmed by Harmon Kardon speakers when I turn up the volume as hearing distortion when I crank it. I don’t have to turn volume up all the way bc Polestar 2 cabin is much smaller than Air’s cabin. Air in the other hand feels like in symphony hall, I can sense spatial cadence and loudness same time when I close my eyes.

It is true I sometimes escape by going to garage to my mini theater. My wife occasionally knock on the window to wake me up to go back inside to sleep.

I can relate to that!

My wife is a psychologist, and I'm always in fear that she will 5150 me if I bring home any more gear.

The premium sound on our PS2 definitely misses the crispness of the horns in the Lucid, but the overall experience sounds decent with anything I throw at it. Not mind-blowing, like some of the Atmos tracks in the Lucid, but also not displeasing on music that I would normally listen to. I think striking a balance and having a DSP that can accommodate many music styles or additional EQ settings would serve Lucid well... But again, I think there is something wrong with my system (and others that are describing this very particular negative experience).

I'm confident that it will get fixed.

 

[maractwin]

To offer another perspective: I don't want to stream from Tidal. The Tidal experience sucks, with a poor U/I and plays the same tracks over and over. I own an extensive library of music which I've digitized at lossless quality that sounds great on other sound systems. If I can't play this in the car, then the car stereo doesn't sound good.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I can relate to that!

My wife is a psychologist, and I'm always in fear that she will 5150 me if I bring home any more gear.

The premium sound on our PS2 definitely misses the crispness of the horns in the Lucid, but the overall experience sounds decent with anything I throw at it. Not mind-blowing, like some of the Atmos tracks in the Lucid, but also not displeasing on music that I would normally listen to. I think striking a balance and having a DSP that can accommodate many music styles or additional EQ settings would serve Lucid well... But again, I think there is something wrong with my system (and others that are describing this very particular negative experience).

I'm confident that it will get fixed.

Yeah sorry didn’t mean to question what you’re hearing, as you’re obliviously hearing it, and I’ll check out the example track you gave and see if I can reproduce it. I just think this notion the car’s audio system has “bad design choices” because some tracks but not others sound displeasing, doesn’t mean that something is necessarily physically defective with the car’s system, because if it’s able to make some tracks sound mind blowing, then the capabilities seem to be intact, no? It’s either defective or not defective. It can’t be bad only some of the time on some songs, as a physical defect with a speaker or its enclosure would manifest itself whenever anything was played through it that had similar frequencies and amplitude. I myself have noticed that in Tidal all source material is definitely not created equal, and while it may stream at the highest available but depth, if the original that Tidal is sourcing from wasn’t remastered at a high bit depth/sampling rate, the inferiority of the source material is very noticeable. The high dynamic range of the car I think actually exposes these inadequacies and can make some tracks actually sound worse than you’re used to.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

To offer another perspective: I don't want to stream from Tidal. The Tidal experience sucks, with a poor U/I and plays the same tracks over and over. I own an extensive library of music which I've digitized at lossless quality that sounds great on other sound systems. If I can't play this in the car, then the car stereo doesn't sound good.

Yeah that’s a legitimate point and Lucid needs to add that capability, either via USB access or WiFI hotspot or something.

 

[ARamsdale]

The high dynamic range of the car I think actually exposes these inadequacies and can make some tracks actually sound worse than you’re used to.

This isn't a high-dynamic range issue.

I did some additional listening in the garage today and opened up the car. Last night, I was sitting in my driveway with the doors closed and running my ear around all of the expected sound ememanating points. When I got down near the floorboard, I definitely hear the focal point as being from behind the footwell/plastic piece in the driver well... Here is a recording from right next to the footwell speaker.

https://soundcloud.com/austin-ramsdale%2Fchapel-crossing-rd-2

Now take this as an OVER EXAGGERATION - remember, I was cranking the bass up, mids and treble down in order to isolate the problem. Furthermore, this is coming from an iphone right next to the speaker, so the effects are going to be amplified. With that said, the flat bass note that you're hearing is very prevalent at +/- 0 across the board, almost like a dull thud and bass that hasn't fully developed.

We used to hear this a lot when folks with pickup trucks wanted to add subwoofers to their cars, and without doing any custom work, a slim sealed truckbox was really the best we could do. Now sticking a sub with very little clearance, and almost no room for the sound to develop meant that you had a restricted voice coil, and even without the speaker being blown, you could get this lack of bass in a sealed box that sounds just like this.

The alternative to limited space is to use tuned ports, or a bandpass style enclosure, which lets more airflow and allows for the bass to "develop" as it travels through the enclosure. An improperly tuned port/enclosure can lead to muddy or "airy" bass that doesn't have a good kickdrum punch, if you will.

The reason why I'm wondering if this was a design issue, is that there seems to be very little room for this footwell speaker to properly function. Bass radiates, and as compared to treble, it needs space to open up - it's why you can hear subwoofers reverb throughout the house or from a car down the street, even if it's not incredibly loud near the speaker. Hence why a lot of OEMs put the sub in the trunk - it's the farthest position from the passengers, there is less concern about SPL, and there's plenty of space to work with to provide a proper seal for the speaker (something else I suspect is happening).

Now quick sidebar on soundwaves - speakers generate two opposite soundwaves, one on each side of the speaker. If you take a speaker and place it on the counter and hook it up without an enclosure, you will still hear it, but most of the sound will be lost due to the opposite sinewave cacancelingut the other side. So properly sealing the enclosures are vital in order to provide separation for the sound waves to create sound. I'm curious if some of the sound is lost due to improperly sealed speakers, or more than likely, a combination of factors.

My wife is out with the PS2 right now, but I try to do a video recording later to show what I mean across all 3 cars, and show exactly what to look for, and what I'm hearing that is so displeasurable to some of us - like someone else said, I'm elated that some of you aren't experiencing this or are extremely happy with the sound - That's fantastic! And if these ARE isolated issues, then I have even more hope that it's a defect in my equipment, and not a design issue.

 

[Bus Driver]

This isn't a high-dynamic range issue.

I did some additional listening in the garage today and opened up the car. Last night, I was sitting in my driveway with the doors closed and running my ear around all of the expected sound ememanating points. When I got down near the floorboard, I definitely hear the focal point as being from behind the footwell/plastic piece in the driver well... Here is a recording from right next to the footwell speaker.

https://soundcloud.com/austin-ramsdale%2Fchapel-crossing-rd-2

Now take this as an OVER EXAGGERATION - remember, I was cranking the bass up, mids and treble down in order to isolate the problem. Furthermore, this is coming from an iphone right next to the speaker, so the effects are going to be amplified. With that said, the flat bass note that you're hearing is very prevalent at +/- 0 across the board, almost like a dull thud and bass that hasn't fully developed.

We used to hear this a lot when folks with pickup trucks wanted to add subwoofers to their cars, and without doing any custom work, a slim sealed truckbox was really the best we could do. Now sticking a sub with very little clearance, and almost no room for the sound to develop meant that you had a restricted voice coil, and even without the speaker being blown, you could get this lack of bass in a sealed box that sounds just like this.

The alternative to limited space is to use tuned ports, or a bandpass style enclosure, which lets more airflow and allows for the bass to "develop" as it travels through the enclosure. An improperly tuned port/enclosure can lead to muddy or "airy" bass that doesn't have a good kickdrum punch, if you will.

The reason why I'm wondering if this was a design issue, is that there seems to be very little room for this footwell speaker to properly function. Bass radiates, and as compared to treble, it needs space to open up - it's why you can hear subwoofers reverb throughout the house or from a car down the street, even if it's not incredibly loud near the speaker. Hence why a lot of OEMs put the sub in the trunk - it's the farthest position from the passengers, there is less concern about SPL, and there's plenty of space to work with to provide a proper seal for the speaker (something else I suspect is happening).

Now quick sidebar on soundwaves - speakers generate two opposite soundwaves, one on each side of the speaker. If you take a speaker and place it on the counter and hook it up without an enclosure, you will still hear it, but most of the sound will be lost due to the opposite sinewave cacancelingut the other side. So properly sealing the enclosures are vital in order to provide separation for the sound waves to create sound. I'm curious if some of the sound is lost due to improperly sealed speakers, or more than likely, a combination of factors.

My wife is out with the PS2 right now, but I try to do a video recording later to show what I mean across all 3 cars, and show exactly what to look for, and what I'm hearing that is so displeasurable to some of us - like someone else said, I'm elated that some of you aren't experiencing this or are extremely happy with the sound - That's fantastic! And if these ARE isolated issues, then I have even more hope that it's a defect in my equipment, and not a design issue.

Just to flog this dead horse a little longer, that’s exactly the sound coming from the driver’s foot well or driver’s door. “Whoomp, whoomp, whoomp”, or fart, fart, fart.

I can’t decide whether I want to write this up and have Lucid Mobile take a look at it again (he did the first time and determined there was nothing wrong), or just live with it, and accept it as part of my $140,000 car’s high end, premium sound system.

I can mitigate the sound some by turning down the volume or tweaking the equaliser, and granted the sound isn’t present on every track.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

This isn't a high-dynamic range issue.

I did some additional listening in the garage today and opened up the car. Last night, I was sitting in my driveway with the doors closed and running my ear around all of the expected sound ememanating points. When I got down near the floorboard, I definitely hear the focal point as being from behind the footwell/plastic piece in the driver well... Here is a recording from right next to the footwell speaker.

https://soundcloud.com/austin-ramsdale%2Fchapel-crossing-rd-2

Now take this as an OVER EXAGGERATION - remember, I was cranking the bass up, mids and treble down in order to isolate the problem. Furthermore, this is coming from an iphone right next to the speaker, so the effects are going to be amplified. With that said, the flat bass note that you're hearing is very prevalent at +/- 0 across the board, almost like a dull thud and bass that hasn't fully developed.

We used to hear this a lot when folks with pickup trucks wanted to add subwoofers to their cars, and without doing any custom work, a slim sealed truckbox was really the best we could do. Now sticking a sub with very little clearance, and almost no room for the sound to develop meant that you had a restricted voice coil, and even without the speaker being blown, you could get this lack of bass in a sealed box that sounds just like this.

The alternative to limited space is to use tuned ports, or a bandpass style enclosure, which lets more airflow and allows for the bass to "develop" as it travels through the enclosure. An improperly tuned port/enclosure can lead to muddy or "airy" bass that doesn't have a good kickdrum punch, if you will.

The reason why I'm wondering if this was a design issue, is that there seems to be very little room for this footwell speaker to properly function. Bass radiates, and as compared to treble, it needs space to open up - it's why you can hear subwoofers reverb throughout the house or from a car down the street, even if it's not incredibly loud near the speaker. Hence why a lot of OEMs put the sub in the trunk - it's the farthest position from the passengers, there is less concern about SPL, and there's plenty of space to work with to provide a proper seal for the speaker (something else I suspect is happening).

Now quick sidebar on soundwaves - speakers generate two opposite soundwaves, one on each side of the speaker. If you take a speaker and place it on the counter and hook it up without an enclosure, you will still hear it, but most of the sound will be lost due to the opposite sinewave cacancelingut the other side. So properly sealing the enclosures are vital in order to provide separation for the sound waves to create sound. I'm curious if some of the sound is lost due to improperly sealed speakers, or more than likely, a combination of factors.

My wife is out with the PS2 right now, but I try to do a video recording later to show what I mean across all 3 cars, and show exactly what to look for, and what I'm hearing that is so displeasurable to some of us - like someone else said, I'm elated that some of you aren't experiencing this or are extremely happy with the sound - That's fantastic! And if these ARE isolated issues, then I have even more hope that it's a defect in my equipment, and not a design issue.

Yeah I listened to the St Lucia track and don’t hear the issue you’re describing so there may be something loose or missing with your system. It doesn’t matter where I move the position, no flaws are heard. One striking thing about the car is the separation between front and rear when you move the position extreme front or rear, it’s almost like it’s a chauffeur mode where the people in the back can be rocking out and you can enjoy relative peace or vice versa. And it’s not a smooth transition from front to rear when using the position slider, so that’s something I’d consider a fault though maybe it’s by design.

Regarding low frequencies, it’s the waveLENGTH that is why subs are in the trunk. 40hz = 2.6 meters, IE one complete cycle is that long. Enclosures do matter some like you say, but those low frequencies would travel through many of the materials in the car ok (it’s why you can hear bass outside of cars) so I don’t perceive much blocking/baffling of the sound. As far as phase cancellation, I’m amazed the car has as little as it does. @copper did a full spectrum analysis of the car and it has a few spots where it looks like phase cancellation to me, but I expected way more with the glass canopy and the angle at which the audio is reflecting, so they did a monster job of tuning this system and it must have been very difficult.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Regardless of whether you’re a fan of their music or not, just play this track by The Cure “Play for Today” at 75% volume. https://tidal.com/track/33351972

You will feel the beater of the kick drum in your chest, the very clean Fender jazz chorus amp with the guitars falls right into place, and none of the bouncing notes of the Fender precision bass are lost. If there was rampant phase cancellation this track would fall to pieces, especially with a chorused guitar (chorus effect is a form of phase cancellation itself, just slightly time delayed to create the effect), and yet every note and tone is head with pristine clarity. I do hope those who are struggling with the audio system in this car find a resolution, because it really is excellent.