Lucid Air Stereo "Surreal Sound" Test Impressions

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have owned two Model S in the past and Tesla had a descent sound system but wasn’t the best. I will say Lucid’s sound , ATMOS , with the latest firmware update sounds AMAZING ! To my ears , before the last updates , the ATMOS sounded like the regular music but now, I keep chasing the ATMOS titles and turning up the music in the car. Highly recommend you listen to The Motto by Tiesto in ATMOS ( make sure the car is set to Tidal Hifi Plus). Setup a playlist from your PC , iPad, iPhone and add Atmos songs then access the playlist from the car.
Did you have this speaker layout on Model S? https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-sound-system/model-s-speaker-placement/
 
Thank you, Bunny!

I currently have a Model S 2021 “refresh“ and an AGT
I’ve no expertise in audio technology, period
That said, I do love music, all of it, from Mozart to the Clash.

Initially, I thought the MS sound system was great
Then I got my AGT….. oh my!

No doubt, the MS sound system is quite good, credit there.
I don’t know what ordinary tracks sound like on the AGT system, I only use Tidal w ATMOS

All I can say, IMHO, the Lucid sound system is the best I’ve ever heard in a car.
It’s one the reasons the MS sits in my driveway.

That, plus DDPro doesn’t phantom brake in the middle of a freeway
 
Thank you, Bunny!

I currently have a Model S 2021 “refresh“ and an AGT
I’ve no expertise in audio technology, period
That said, I do love music, all of it, from Mozart to the Clash.

Initially, I thought the MS sound system was great
Then I got my AGT….. oh my!

No doubt, the MS sound system is quite good, credit there.
I don’t know what ordinary tracks sound like on the AGT system, I only use Tidal w ATMOS

All I can say, IMHO, the Lucid sound system is the best I’ve ever heard in a car.
It’s one the reasons the MS sits in my driveway.

That, plus DDPro doesn’t phantom brake in the middle of a freeway
Tesla does phantom brake and is annoying. But I would rather have the phantom breaking than run into the car in front of me or a pedestrian if I am distracted or have a medical emergency and lose control of the vehicle. The adaptive Cruise on Lucid failed to see the car in front of me three times in a few days, took too long to slow down the car, then started warning me to push the brakes. It stays in the lane on the freeway, but when the curve is a little steep, it warns me to steer manually. Forget about merging lanes markings; Lucid will not handle them. I can only hope Lucid software gets better. Would Lucid see the deer in time and react? https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/0...erhuman-reflexes-as-it-avoids-hitting-a-deer/
Dash cam function would also be excellent, but I guess people would start posting the dream drive Pro failures.
 
Thank you for the post. The cars have resonances; you are right. Lucid is very well built; I do not hear rattling when turning up the volume. I am trying to understand the schematics. Where are the 8-inch woofers? An 8-inch woofer, in addition to a sub, should make it sound FANTASTIC... And 21 speakers? Maybe I do not have the latest software. I will check; do you have a link showing speaker placement, diameter, etc., in the Lucid? Tesla S looks like this https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-sound-system/model-s-speaker-placement/ . Maybe AptX codec would allow higher resolution, but I only see SBC and AptX supported. Why does the volume on the car not move when I change it on the phone and vice-versa, like other cars or blue tooth devices?
I am afraid that the AAC stream is decoded in my phone and reconverted instead of sending the original bitstream to the car, where conversion takes place.MQA is controversial...

I miss the detailed highs from the BMW 840i I rented in Miami recently. Neither Tesla nor Lucid's come even close in that department.

This is not my photo but from another member who was having work done, it’s the woofer in the footwell. Looks like 8” to me? Maybe 6”. Paging @Bobby, he can tell you better than me. Appears to be Kevlar to me, which is excellent for low-mid frequencies. I used KRK studio monitors for many advertising mixes specifically because they were Kevlar and could allow you to find and eliminate low-mid frequencies that would otherwise muddy up a mix.

Also FYI while I’m not exactly sure how Lucid handles Bluetooth streaming, ANYTHING you play over your phone to the car regardless of selected quality or streaming app is going to sound inferior to Lucid’s Tidal app in the car, AAC or not (confirming it’s set to HiFi in settings!). You can’t judge an Atmos track played over Bluetooth. While I realize FLAC/AAC/MQA are supposed to be “lossless” or at least super high resolution, while I don’t know about other cars, playing any of that over Bluetooth will sound markedly inferior to the Tidal app in the car, of course making sure you’ve subscribed to Tidal HiFI Plus and that option is turned on in settings and your Tidal subscription.
 

Attachments

  • A009E908-7BF9-45D4-A560-53CC266AF5FC.jpeg
    A009E908-7BF9-45D4-A560-53CC266AF5FC.jpeg
    837.3 KB · Views: 84
Last edited:
Yes. I own Lucid Touring and Tesla Model S. People glorifying the Lucid sound system on this thread should listen to different systems. Tesla bass sounds fuller/deeper. Lucid breaks apart at high volumes. The bass is not as deep, and it sounds somewhat not as well integrated with the other speakers compared to the Tesla. The lucid sound is simply missing something. Many comments suggest that Lucid Atmos is the best thing since sliced bread. There are a few Atmos tracks on Tidal. Everything else is up-converted to Dolby surround when you listen to music on Lucid. As I stated before, Lucid has SMALL mid-woofers compared to the Tesla. There is no replacement for displacement. Lucid sounds clear but not good enough for a 120k car. Compare sub-plus small 3-4-inch satellites vs. sub-plus 6-inch speakers at home, and then you will understand.

It is like listening to a high-end soundbar, being blown away, and then you listen to separates with bigger drivers, and you realize that the soundbar is nice but not as good as the real deal.

Tesla is far from perfect, but it has better sound than Lucid.
Lucid looks better. Tesla autopilot is ten years ahead of the pathetic Lucid dream Drive PRO, which is more like a nightmare drive. I do not regret buying the Lucid, but if I could only have a car, I would even have a Model 3 with Autopilot over Lucid with DreamDrive Pro. Safety and accident prevention are more critical than head-turning designs to me.

I can only hope that Lucid will develop excellent software within a few years for the 9000 I paid for the dream Drive Pro ( I had the old price before the increase, I just got the car). Lucid has a 360-degree view when backing up, which is very good; Tesla does not have it.

I will park the cars next to each other and listen more, side by side.

I wish Amir could measure both Lucid and Tesla. He would be horrified by both audio systems but more horrified by the Lucid.
That just tells you how subjective this stuff is. I’m a musician, but don’t consider myself an audiophile like some here. To my ear Tesla’s system has too much base distortion and poor dynamics. It gets louder lower in the sound bar than SSP, but farts out in the upper range rather quickly, where SSP with hi fi get crisper the louder it gets. I think you can make a reasonable debate between Harman Kardin, SSP and Burmester, but don’t see how Tesla’s system could even enter the debate. To each their own and I’m glad you like Tesla’s System.
 
In the Eurostar crash test the car stopped for a simulated pedestrian and a bicycle that pulled out in front of it.
Interestingly we had this conversation yesterday at the Millbrae Delivery event. AirDoll recently hit a coyote which did quite a bit of damage to the car. To her knowledge the car did not automatically brake but she told me the coyote was small and darted out right in front of them so I'm not sure the car could have reacted. Also, one of the Lucid management types told me the height of the object/person/animal can be a factor.
 
I have owned two Model S in the past and Tesla had a descent sound system but wasn’t the best. I will say Lucid’s sound , ATMOS , with the latest firmware update sounds AMAZING ! To my ears , before the last updates , the ATMOS sounded like the regular music but now, I keep chasing the ATMOS titles and turning up the music in the car. Highly recommend you listen to The Motto by Tiesto in ATMOS ( make sure the car is set to Tidal Hifi Plus). Setup a playlist from your PC , iPad, iPhone and add Atmos songs then access the playlist from the car.

Thank you for that great recommendation with The Motto. Just listened on my way into the office. Holy s!!!t, that is chest thumping musical ecstasy .
 
I would have never thought Devialet was better than A500. I spent less, though. The most I besides A700 is $ 3000 for Tekton double impact and 2500 for PB16 sub.
Dirac, please make some software so I can improve my Lucid
I did compare both extensively (see pic attached). Both have very different and distinct sound signature. I liked Devialet much more, my wife did too, that's why A500 ended up in my bedroom (and we love them).
My wife asked, honey where are all the amps, peramps, da converters, voltage regulators for my tube apms (KT 77 tubes are very rare and expensive), cables, other unnecessary shit and equipment racks?
And...I said, guess what, they are all gone. She loves me even more (if that's possible :) )
 

Attachments

  • image_94.jpg
    image_94.jpg
    3.3 MB · Views: 92
I did compare both extensively (see pic attached). Both have very different and distinct sound signature. I liked Devialet much more, my wife did too, that's why A500 ended up in my bedroom (and we love them).
My wife asked, honey where are all the amps, peramps, da converters, voltage regulators for my tube apms (KT 77 tubes are very rare and expensive), cables, other unnecessary shit and equipment racks?
And...I said, guess what, they are all gone. She loves me even more (if that's possible :) )
Speaker in front of the screen?
 
I’m sorry, honest question, but how do you know these speaker sizes in the Lucid and which specific ones are you referring to? The ones in the dash behind the cockpit under the windshield? The subs in the trunk? The floor well woofers? Having seen pics of the floor well speakers with the floor taken apart, they appear to be Kevlar cone/forged metal 8” I believe with a tunnel to channel some of the low frequencies. The smaller ones you’re referring to as 3-4” satellites are more for height channels for Atmos.


Here’s how I can state the Lucid is the real deal. I apologize and I hope this doesn’t sound too obnoxious or name droppy (as I’ve mentioned it before when a few people have said how disappointing the car’s audio is), but in my prior career for 9 years I worked as an assistant sound editor/supervising sound editor/mixer/sound designer (depending on the project) for many films and a few TV commercials, some of which I’m sure you’ve seen. So I’ve been in the mixing studio and either heard or created myself the final product you listened to, and have heard and re-heard the film scores, source music/soundtrack songs, and sound effects and dialog for months on end, which by defacto is the ultimate resolution in terms of fidelity (IE it doesnt matter if you played back one of our 24bit/96khz mixes at 192khz because you’re limited by the fidelity of the original). While there are many good car audio systems, and I have not heard Tesla’s so cannot comment on them specifically, I’ve heard many other great car audio setups, and the Lucid’s is more accurate overall, including bass reproduction as it was intended in the original mix. I think the top end Burmeister in Mercedes is also outstanding with Tidal MQA format, but the Lucid’s is the most accurate overall. It’s literally the only system I’ve heard where I was immediately surprised by, because for one the volume knob is calibrated like a fader you’ll find in the studio (79dB = zero on the fader and you’ve got 12-16 more dB to go until max), and also more importantly I was surprised as it literally felt like I was back in the studio hearing what I heard during the mix. While the system is not perfect (the bass is fine but the highest high frequencies seem to lose a little separation and clarity probably because of the limitations of the glass cockpit and materials in the car), it’s closer to what I would consider professional grade accurate than any other car. The caveat being that the audio source must be high resolution, aka Tidal HiFi Plus MQA or Atmos. There are many tracks on Tidal that are not in Master quality format, and they still sound very good but not studio grade accurate. So I very much begin to wonder, knowing the source material very well, whether those who are disappointed with the car’s sound are either listening with the wrong format, the wrong volume, or have just had their ears retrained by hyped inaccurate car audio.



A car cannot be an audiophile environment. It’s not an isolation chamber, it’s got too many surfaces an acoustician would find limiting. So when I sit in the Lucid with the severe angle of the glass roof and all these angled absorptive surfaces combined with the reflective surfaces of the dashboard and windshield, I think it’s an car audio marvel that it sounds as accurate as it does. Again, it’s not flawless, but I’m convinced a lot of this criticism is due to wrong format/wrong point of reference.
This is the typical gnashing of teeth response to posts like @LucidvsTeslaS. @bunnylebowski and others in this thread make excellent points in defense of SSP but the key was @SaratogaLefty asking about the music source. While SSP sounds "good" using normal inputs like spotify or bluetooth from your phone, it really was designed to play atmos/high fidelity sources. It seems like he is not able to compare the same high fidelity source in both vehicles so his impressions of the sound quality/bass output is, well, low fidelity. He opines that the woofers are small but has no knowledge of their size, they just sound small to him.

When he activates his free trial of Tidal hi-fi plus and sets up his Touring for it, plays master quality and atmos tracks, then his impressions of SSP would be relevant to how many of you use SSP. Apologies if he is already doing that but reading this thread, it seems unlikely. Also, reference the song recommendations thread for what to listen to while forming your opinion. Since Lucid worked with Dolby in putting SSP and the 21 speakers together, I have a high level of confidence that you'll like what you hear when you use high fidelity sources.

As to having someone that measures stereos/speakers test the car, it is a very different circumstance. As this article by miniDSP shows https://www.minidsp.com/applications/car-audio/0-automotive-sound-minidsp-rew#section-list, measuring a car isn't simple. Testing home speakers is relatively easy. Have the speaker in a treated room or outdoors on a raised platform. Set up the measuring mike the same distance for every speaker at the same height with the speaker placed in the same position for all tests with the same equipment. As the miniDSP article states, this setup won't work in a car.

Off-topic but @Cosmo Cruz's post about speakers 1/3 of the way into the room reminded me of the most common mistake I see with speaker placement in a room. Back ported speakers too close to the wall behind them. When I was looking at HT speakers, I got a chance to exchange emails with the designer for one of the high end DTC speaker companies and he told me the minimum distance a back ported speaker should be from the wall behind it is 3 feet with 5 feet being better. For my setup, I had to find front ported speakers so they could be placed close to the wall.
 
Yeah if we knew he was listening to his music via Bluetooth that would have cleared things up quickly.
 
This is the typical gnashing of teeth response to posts like @LucidvsTeslaS. @bunnylebowski and others in this thread make excellent points in defense of SSP but the key was @SaratogaLefty asking about the music source. While SSP sounds "good" using normal inputs like spotify or bluetooth from your phone, it really was designed to play atmos/high fidelity sources. It seems like he is not able to compare the same high fidelity source in both vehicles so his impressions of the sound quality/bass output is, well, low fidelity. He opines that the woofers are small but has no knowledge of their size, they just sound small to him.

When he activates his free trial of Tidal hi-fi plus and sets up his Touring for it, plays master quality and atmos tracks, then his impressions of SSP would be relevant to how many of you use SSP. Apologies if he is already doing that but reading this thread, it seems unlikely. Also, reference the song recommendations thread for what to listen to while forming your opinion. Since Lucid worked with Dolby in putting SSP and the 21 speakers together, I have a high level of confidence that you'll like what you hear when you use high fidelity sources.

As to having someone that measures stereos/speakers test the car, it is a very different circumstance. As this article by miniDSP shows https://www.minidsp.com/applications/car-audio/0-automotive-sound-minidsp-rew#section-list, measuring a car isn't simple. Testing home speakers is relatively easy. Have the speaker in a treated room or outdoors on a raised platform. Set up the measuring mike the same distance for every speaker at the same height with the speaker placed in the same position for all tests with the same equipment. As the miniDSP article states, this setup won't work in a car.

Off-topic but @Cosmo Cruz's post about speakers 1/3 of the way into the room reminded me of the most common mistake I see with speaker placement in a room. Back ported speakers too close to the wall behind them. When I was looking at HT speakers, I got a chance to exchange emails with the designer for one of the high end DTC speaker companies and he told me the minimum distance a back ported speaker should be from the wall behind it is 3 feet with 5 feet being better. For my setup, I had to find front ported speakers so they could be placed close to the wall.

I did compare both extensively (see pic attached). Both have very different and distinct sound signature. I liked Devialet much more, my wife did too, that's why A500 ended up in my bedroom (and we love them).
My wife asked, honey where are all the amps, peramps, da converters, voltage regulators for my tube apms (KT 77 tubes are very rare and expensive), cables, other unnecessary shit and equipment racks?
And...I said, guess what, they are all gone. She loves me even more (if that's possible :) )
I have too many speakers. Please do not tempt me to buy Devialet!!! Buchardt A700 sounds great to me. Have you tried different master tunings on A500? Tubes gone- DSP in-way to go -cheaper and more efficient. Not sure why so many purists cannot accept DSP and class D and stick with Vynil and analog filters. Nostalgia?
 
Interestingly we had this conversation yesterday at the Millbrae Delivery event. AirDoll recently hit a coyote which did quite a bit of damage to the car. To her knowledge the car did not automatically brake but she told me the coyote was small and darted out right in front of them so I'm not sure the car could have reacted. Also, one of the Lucid management types told me the height of the object/person/animal can be a factor.

Didn't see that ice either

I have too many speakers. Please do not tempt me to buy Devialet!!! Buchardt A700 sounds great to me. Have you tried different master tunings on A500? Tubes gone- DSP in-way to go -cheaper and more efficient. Not sure why so many purists cannot accept DSP and class D and stick with Vynil and analog filters. Nostalgia?

Still waiting on that photo...
 
Yeah if we knew he was listening to his music via Bluetooth that would have cleared things up quickly.
Wrong. I listen to Tidal in the car using the car's app. I will copy uncompressed audio on a USB stick also , and listen in both cars

I am using Tidal in Lucid, NOT over Bluetooth, which does not have enough bandwidth for surround sound and cannot carry surround sound. So what you suspected was not the case. Bluetooth only carries stereo, spdif cannot carry Atmos, etc. I know a lot about HiFi stuff
I am using TIDAL on the car itself. So I know what I am talking about. However, I did more research and realized the Lucid sub is in a tiny enclosure -this is where the lack of deep bass comes from. If Lucid does not use limiters, I can find a shop to pull a signal from the sub, install a bigger sub or 2 in front of the back seats, and see how it goes. However, if the Lucid DSP cuts off the bass, so it would not drive their tiny subwoofer into over-excursion, there is nothing I can do...
I love the car regardless; I am not a secret Elon Musk agent who advertises Tesla. I love both cars.
Psychoacoustic research shows how much of a difference is perceived between Bluetooth APTX Lossless and the original file.
NONE . But Lucid does not support APTX.

320K MP3 sounds indistinguishable from CD, for example,
It is not the Bluetooth compression; it is the small sub in the small enclosure in the Lucid.
People keep saying Lucid is made for Tidal, and nothing else should sound good on Lucid. False. Moderate imperceptible compression is a well-tuned system with deep bass, and flat response will sound better than DSD or PCM 192 on a system with anemic subs/small midbass drivers. In one of my rooms, I am using a small class D 100-dollar amp with Klipsch towers over the low-quality SBC codec - Bluetooth, and, despite all that compression, it blows away any car system. There is no replacement for displacement.
Suppose I listen to those "horrible" AAC 256 and MP3 320 "over-compressed" stereo signals up-mixed to Dolby surround on my home system with high-end subs and full-range speakers-a 7.2.4 system. In that case, it will mop the floor with TIDAL uncompressed -original Atmos content everybody is raving about on this forum, played on a soundbar with small drivers and a small sub. Bluetooth CODECS are called perceptual because there is very little difference in what humans hear when compression is done correctly at a reasonably high bitrate.
Lucid does not support high-quality Bluetooth codecs, but even AAC can sound very good at a high bit rate.
What is next, people raving about how they can perceive uncompressed UltraHD content on their TVs over a very efficient codec like H265?
The human ear has limitations.
I have had many cars and home systems in my life. Lucid sounds excellent but lacks deep bass. The highs are not very detailed either, but they are pretty good. The strength is in the VERY CLEAR mids.
I will try, MaxxBass from Waves on my laptop and see if t helps. I will use Bluetooth to send the sound to the Lucid. Wouldn't an HDMI input for lucid have been nice?

MaxxBass creates harmonics that you can add to the signal. These harmonics trick the ear into perceiving low bass frequencies that may not actually be present in the output. This psychoacoustic illusion can be used for mixing and mastering to enhance the bass response for playback on any system.
 
One more suggestion to everyone who believes compression over Bluetooth makes such a huge difference.
Use a high-end phone, buy a Bluetooth receiver that supports all codecs ( Bluetooth to SPDIF), and play Tidal from your phone through APTX lossless AAC. SBC, LDAC, etc. You can switch the codecs from the phone.
Have a friend switch the codecs and play the same content from an uncompressed PC to your Home theater receiver.
Have a blind test.
See if you can perceive much difference. Play the content in Stereo, of course, if you use a PC to HT receiver with HDMI
Then you tell me if high-quality compression is easily distinguished from uncompressed.
I tried, so I know what I am talking about.
Too many people here blame it on Bluetooth- the lack of deep bass in Lucid.
Please read about the enclosure size in subwoofers -how it affects the bass response. That is the problem with the Lucid if the only sub is the one in the back, in that small enclosure. I do not have the schematics with all 21 speakers.
I am using TIDAL atmos tracks on the car app in my Lucid
Not my phone, as people suggested


 
@LucidvsTeslaS I guess I'm confused on the emphasis on subwoofer. What "naturally" do you feel the need to reproduce? Kick drums are from 50-60Hz

I'm still waiting on that pic.
 
I have had many cars and home systems in my life. Lucid sounds excellent but lacks deep bass. The highs are not very detailed either, but they are pretty good. The strength is in the VERY CLEAR mids.
I have had many cars and home systems as well. I agree the Lucid lacks deep bass. I strongly disagree about the Tesla stereo being superior or the highs lacking, but you do you.

I suggest you drop this subject and move on. You're alienating many people on this thread by hijacking it for yourself.

Goodbye.
 
If what he says is correct, people using the Tidal app on the Lucid are not even getting Dolby Atmos! They get the compressed 320k, and then they get a simulated Atmos. I doubt it, though. The only way to know for sure is if Tidal has a Dolby Atmos channel check track like VUDU has. But if he is right, all this raving about Bluetooth compression VS uncompressed Tidal was for nothing. It would make more sense to get full bitrate while using the Lucid app.

If he uses Alexa, he says he gets a higher bitrate. How would that be, since Lucid does not have Android Auto??


He said

So I started doing some research into the music quality on the Lucid Air and discovered something interesting. When using Tidal via the built-in application, the stream is limited to 320kbps. However, if you use Alexa to play the same song via Tidal, it seams to play at max quality > 1411kbps. This applies to other services as well, Tidal, Amazon Music, etc. If you play the same song using each method, the version playing via Alexa is noticeably better quality. My guess is Lucid limits the stream quality with the built in application so they do not use as much data but is not able to with Alexa. Thoughts? https://lucid324632209.wordpress.com/.../24/media-overview/







 
@LucidvsTeslaS I guess I'm confused on the emphasis on subwoofer. What "naturally" do you feel the need to reproduce? Kick drums are from 50-60Hz

I'm still waiting on that pic.
The longer you wait, the better you will feel when I finally post it. Patience is a Virtue. Do you think I cannot afford a Lucid, maybe? are you doubting my purchasing power? I am in the top 1.5 %, and that is without doing the 9 to 5, or even worse, working 80 hours a week like my cousin, who got his MBA from Harward. The beauty of my situation is not the 1.5 % but the fact that I wake up every day at noon and do whatever I please. A picture of my insurance with the VIN numbers is on my avatar. Do the Carfax
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top