Lucid Air Stereo "Surreal Sound" Test Impressions

Status
Not open for further replies.
And this is where the subjective part comes in. No one can argue with what you prefer. At least not sanely.

We’re talking about very good systems here in all three cars, for sure.
I had Lincoln MKZ Hybrid with THX. Bought it in 2014 and sold it in 2019. Tesla S sounds better on mids than in Lincoln. Lincoln sounded great though. I liked the bass better than in Lucid, but I like Lucid mids better than Lincoln.
 
Interesting observation.

My partner and I remain at odds about what is good bass in a sound system. We have reached a compromise by which I don't touch the equalizer controls in the Tesla (in which he keeps the bass cranked up), and he doesn't touch the equalizer controls in the Lucid (which I keep flat but are overridden by Dobly Atmos, anyway).

I think a large part of this difference derives from our backgrounds. I learned to listen to music while taking piano lessons, playing oboe in a high school orchestra, and attending a lot of live classical concerts in college during which time I chased every new piece of exotic audio gear and speaker that came on the market. (For example, I was the first in my dorm to get electrostatic speakers.)

My partner grew up in Russia-controlled Poland and learned to listen to music by attending rock concerts and listening to mostly-pirated sources on cheap home or car gear. The coolest guy among his friends was always the one who could crank the most bass out of a crappy system -- which really meant producing the most distortion at the loudest volume.

To this day, what I view as a clean, nuanced, and powerful bass line properly blended into the tonal wall he views as a weak and dull bass line.
So if you play Tidal atmos tracks, will that disable tone controls? Would be nice to be able to watch Netflix or amazon prime in Atmos while charging. I will copy the Atmos demos on a stick, will it play from USB?
 
Among my many hobbies is DIY HiFi. I build speakers and amps for fun and have a passion for really great sounding systems. There's a special kind of joy from listening to music on a system you designed yourself and is really dialed-in for the room. You get to realize the fruits of your hard work in a way that few other hobbies provide.

Ever since Lucid started marketing the Surreal Sound, I knew I had to get a proper test. With that in mind, I met up today with @borski to run some tests on the stereo using a measurement mic and a few reference tracks.

TL;DR: Excellent sound staging if a little bright on the treble, small drop around 130-200hz, great bass extension but needs some oomph. You'll probably want to bump the bass EQ +2 to +4 DB and the treble down -1 to -2 db (if it seems harsh at times, YMMV). Designed for long-listening without fatigue and brings out details you'll love to hear.

The Data

Below is the results of some test loops between 30hz-20khz. I used Room EQ Wizard on my laptop, connected to the Air via bluetooth.

View attachment 1092

Caveats:
  • We ran this with both of us in the car, climate control off, but there's some reflections and background noise that make the graph rougher than it will really sound to your ears.
  • I was in the passenger seat which is going to have a disadvantage vs. driver for my impressions of music.
  • I intentionally did not test Atmos tracks. The goal here was pure 2ch stereo as that is what I know and can test the best.
  • [edit] Apparently, to connect a laptop to bluetooth you'll need to have it set up both as a phone and audio device in the Air.
Technical Impressions
  • Bass goes a long ways down, but has a -3db of 44hz before it levels off and then stays solid to ~26hz. This means a few of the deeper bass hits lack "oomph" but are not by any means missed.
    • This is something that could be adjusted for in EQ and I'm surprised they let it remain. I would have dropped the mid bass down ~5db and bumped up the absolute bottom to compensate.
    • The sub clearly rolls in at 150hz and has a lot of output. However, it isn't booming which means some tracks can feel light because we're used to overcompensated low-end in car stereos. This means you get a more "real" sound, but can lack a bit of excitement unless you crank it.
  • There's a dip after the sub where the mids roll in, rising to a pretty big hump at 700hz before rolling back as you go higher.
    • The midrange is very healthy. Music might seem more "full" than you're used to - that is how it should sound!
    • Lots of car stereos will lack output in several spots of 200hz-2khz range, resulting in entire instruments going missing on tracks (either due to DSP, reflection/cancellation, etc.) The lucid does not have this problem, despite the jagged response due to room modes.
    • The dip on the lucid at 130-200hz isn't that big of a deal as you won't notice it, except with very cello-forward or string-bass compositions.
  • The treble is a bit bright and could cause a bit of fatigue on long sessions.
    • That peak at 8khz is pretty noticeable, and some tracks might end up harsh.
    • The treble ends abruptly at ~16khz for some reason. This is probably the DSP as it definitely doesn't look like a natural rolloff on the tweeter. Since I was running pure 2ch output this could be Atmos' fault. It won't mess up your listening.
Impressions with Music

I was very happy with the sound staging and depth of response. Horns, strings, vocals, all excelled. We tested Ce Matin-là by Air for purity of a French horn, then Loyal by Odesza for a more complex arrangement. Both did extremely well with the instruments being very clearly placed with no "fuzz". We also gave Young by Vallis Alps a go for a slower-paced but dynamic track with my favorite combination of vocals and bass of late. The singer's voice was very clear, no ringing or harshness (very hard in a car) and the bass line was tight and didn't suffer from any phase delay or lingering-boom. I should have popped on some Faith No More to get a feel for kick drums. Oh well, next time!

We also tossed on some good orchestral and Jazz tracks (Snarky puppy!). The midrange is really a highlight on this stereo, with every instrument coming alive. The guitar, cello and flute on Morning in Norkia from the anime Last Exile (random track, but absolutely excellent engineering) sounded like they're right in front of you. For fans of live instruments and vocals you'll be very happy. Synths and electronic music also do very well, with swelling sounds getting goosebumps immediately.

However, the system can also be unforgiving. You're going to notice poorly engineered tracks much more readily as you can hear the difference in quality between the live instrument and the synthesized one. Sampled music with hiss/hum or low quality takes will be clear as day. This is common in HiFi, but hearing it in a car is a first. It will bring out imperfections in ways that surprise you, an inadvertent drawback for the level of detail it provides.

That said, the overall experience is really joyful. There were moments that the music just really took over and the world melted away. I've not gotten that in a car before the Lucid!

Areas for Improvement

The system lacks volume in the absolute lowest octaves and getting that bottom end to really hit. This could be compensated with EQ, but I didn't have time test what range the bass EQ will affect (some of them go all the way up to 300-400hz). It doesn't lack for extension, just output, and I don't believe it is from insufficient amplification. A feature I'd love to see from Lucid is the ability to more finely tune the response, or at least some improvement in percussion and sustained bass notes while dialing back the top. An optional 10-band or better EQ would be a nice option for advanced users.

The top end can be a bit bright, especially with cymbal-heavy percussion, but I didn't detect a lot of distortion. Dialing this back a bit to reduce fatigue would help. I don't know what drivers are used, but this is common in titanium and aluminum dome tweeters that can get really tinny without some proper adjustment. I'm wondering if the glass canopy causes a lot of reflections or cancellations, which means they have to boost output to compensate. I've not designed a car stereo however, so I'm sure they've got their reasons why they bumped up the top-end.

(Note on treble: as you age your hearing in the higher range can diminish, which may make you want more treble to compensate. This is completely normal so take the top-end feedback with a grain of salt.)

Fix that extreme low-end: I'm not sure if there are two subs instead of one, but a -3bd of 44hz is pretty high for what the car has. Maybe a shelf biquad with a high Q to raise it a few db?

Final Thoughts

This is absolutely an excellent system. The level of detail in it is top-notch for a car stereo and with a little bit of adjustment you'll get a ton of enjoyment. I'd say this is designed more for extended listening without fatigue instead of thumping along. The end result is you'll find yourself listening to music longer without needing to turn it down, and will notice things that had been missing. It will capture your interest in a way most car stereos do not, akin to sitting in a dedicated listening room with a dialed-in system.

A lot of mass-market car stereos will hit the bass on a track hard. They'll get your blood going, but you also end up turning it down after a bit - there's distortion, ringing, or a "boom" that fatigues you. The Lucid does not suffer from this at all. Instead, it feels like a system that could use a few improvements, but gets so close to the mark that I really can't fault it, which says a lot.

I'm really surprised to get a stereo this good on the first car from a new carmaker. Surreal sound indeed!
I am thinking about using EQ to flatten out the response, is there any good Android app out there? I wish Dirac came out with something for Phones/tablets... I do not understand why they did not achieve a flatter frequency response using DSP. Is up and down all over the place. How big is the subwoofer, and how big are the midbass speakers, are the layout and technical data published by anyone?
 
So if you play Tidal atmos tracks, will that disable tone controls?

If I correctly understood an earlier post by bunnylebowski, I believe the equalization embedded in Dolby Atmos encoding overrides the manual tone controls.

As Dobly Atmos sounds phenomenal in this car, that's not a problem for me.
 
If I correctly understood an earlier post by bunnylebowski, I believe the equalization embedded in Dolby Atmos encoding overrides the manual tone controls.

As Dobly Atmos sounds phenomenal in this car, that's not a problem for me.
I’m not certain it ignores the EQ settings, but it defintiely ignores balance and fade. Which makes sense, since Atmos precisely positions sound in speakers according to the engineer’s specifications.
 
I’m not certain it ignores the EQ settings, but it defintiely ignores balance and fade. Which makes sense, since Atmos precisely positions sound in speakers according to the engineer’s specifications.

That is correct. You can still change bass, mid, treble , but you cannot change speaker configuration or output as that is encoded into Atmos.
 
So if you play Tidal atmos tracks, will that disable tone controls? Would be nice to be able to watch Netflix or amazon prime in Atmos while charging. I will copy the Atmos demos on a stick, will it play from USB?
So if you play Tidal atmos tracks, will that disable tone controls? Would be nice to be able to watch Netflix or amazon prime in Atmos while charging. I will copy the Atmos demos on a stick, will it play from USB?

You can still manipulate bass, treble and mid on the equalizer, but you cannot change the distribution of sound in the speakers with Atmos. You can change the distribution of sound on master and hifi recordings.
 
With all due respect, I am not the average customer. I have an Atmos system at home in each one of my 4 bedrooms, and very high-end HiFi. HiFi is a hobby for me. I have the Buchardt A 700. Lucid audio engineers could learn some DSP tricks from Buchardt... https://buchardtaudio.com/collections/active-speakers/products/a700


I believe Bose is garbage for example, and overhyped. I know audio. The problem with Lucid, as I posted on youtube, is that it uses a subwoofer plus small diameter midbass speakers plus tweeters. Tesla bass is more integrated because it has some beefy midbass speakers in the doors, I think 5 or 6 inches. The problem with tesla is that those doors resonate a little at high volumes. Try a system with small satellites and sub, and then try a system with 6-inch speakers as satellites and sub, and see which one sounds better. I am not talking about punchiness, but the overall blending of sub and speakers. It should sound perfect with any music and have a FLAT response for the money I paid. period. Not have the 100-200 hs 10 dB deep, which is very audible. It falls apart at higher volumes. Low volume /moderate volume sounds OK. Very clear. I am not saying is a bad system. Regarding the highs, the BMW 840i Harman audio system blows away the Lucid
Ah that explains it! Small speakers can only do so much at higher volumes. Would you consider yourself as a high volume listener? At lower volumes, you still prefer the Tesla?
 
If I correctly understood an earlier post by bunnylebowski, I believe the equalization embedded in Dolby Atmos encoding overrides the manual tone controls.

As Dobly Atmos sounds phenomenal in this car, that's not a problem for me.
No, you can change EQ in Atmos because that is a global setting applied to the entire amplifier output. You cannot change position, because Atmos takes over the position control by assigning which signals go to which speakers. Atmos is only a spatialization/multichannel codec, it doesn’t alter audio frequency.
 
It’s funny the complaints about the bass. I’m sitting in a grocery store parking lot right now instead of going inside so I can listen to the the Atmos mix for INXS Mediate at the appropriate volume, and it is literally stomping on you, kicking you in the chest. And the open airiness where you can just hear everything transparently gives mountain size goosebumps to me. And now I’m listening to Fleetwood Mac’s Dreams and Stevie Nicks sounds like she’s sitting right next to you. I just don’t comprehend any complaints about this system. Maybe my ears are just trained a certain way. If anything the car sounds too good and causes trouble, like now I gotta explain to my wife why it took me 30 minutes longer than expected to get the right cheese for the French onion soup she’s making 😆
 
No, you can change EQ in Atmos because that is a global setting applied to the entire amplifier output. You cannot change position, because Atmos takes over the position control by assigning which signals go to which speakers. Atmos is only a spatialization/multichannel codec, it doesn’t alter audio frequency.

Thanks for clearing that up. I obviously did not correctly remember/understand what you originally posted on this topic.
 
It’s funny the complaints about the bass. I’m sitting in a grocery store parking lot right now instead of going inside so I can listen to the the Atmos mix for INXS Mediate at the appropriate volume, and it is literally stomping on you, kicking you in the chest. And the open airiness where you can just hear everything transparently gives mountain size goosebumps to me. And now I’m listening to Fleetwood Mac’s Dreams and Stevie Nicks sounds like she’s sitting right next to you. I just don’t comprehend any complaints about this system. Maybe my ears are just trained a certain way. If anything the car sounds too good and causes trouble, like now I gotta explain to my wife why it took me 30 minutes longer than expected to get the right cheese for the French onion soup she’s making 😆

Picking out the proper damn cheese for French onion soup can be an immensely difficult and important decision.

And thanks for helping so many of us have a better understanding of sound. It’s awesome .
 
With all due respect, I am not the average customer. I have an Atmos system at home in each one of my 4 bedrooms, and very high-end HiFi. HiFi is a hobby for me. I have the Buchardt A 700. Lucid audio engineers could learn some DSP tricks from Buchardt... https://buchardtaudio.com/collections/active-speakers/products/a700


I believe Bose is garbage for example, and overhyped. I know audio. The problem with Lucid, as I posted on youtube, is that it uses a subwoofer plus small diameter midbass speakers plus tweeters. Tesla bass is more integrated because it has some beefy midbass speakers in the doors, I think 5 or 6 inches. The problem with tesla is that those doors resonate a little at high volumes. Try a system with small satellites and sub, and then try a system with 6-inch speakers as satellites and sub, and see which one sounds better. I am not talking about punchiness, but the overall blending of sub and speakers. It should sound perfect with any music and have a FLAT response for the money I paid. period. Not have the 100-200 hs 10 dB deep, which is very audible. It falls apart at higher volumes. Low volume /moderate volume sounds OK. Very clear. I am not saying is a bad system. Regarding the highs, the BMW 840i Harman audio system blows away the Lucid
I think I'm a high end guy too, spending over my lifetime an equivalent of, roughly, 2 Airs. Funny you mentioned Buchardt A 700.
I have A 500 in my bedroom. They are okay (for a bedroom). I downscaled a lot lately and ended up with Devialet Phantom Golds. Wanna listen to a truly undistorted base, deep base, listen to them.
As for a Lucid, i really don't care about the sound as I listen to my audiobooks only.
 
I highly recommend using a quality SPL meter in this discussion. Not an app on a phone. We need to make sure we are talking apples to apples. Volume influences perceived sound.
 
I think I'm a high end guy too, spending over my lifetime an equivalent of, roughly, 2 Airs. Funny you mentioned Buchardt A 700.
I have A 500 in my bedroom. They are okay (for a bedroom). I downscaled a lot lately and ended up with Devialet Phantom Golds. Wanna listen to a truly undistorted base, deep base, listen to them.
As for a Lucid, i really don't care about the sound as I listen to my audiobooks only.
I would have never thought Devialet was better than A500. I spent less, though. The most I besides A700 is $ 3000 for Tekton double impact and 2500 for PB16 sub.
Dirac, please make some software so I can improve my Lucid
 
Ah that explains it! Small speakers can only do so much at higher volumes. Would you consider yourself as a high volume listener? At lower volumes, you still prefer the Tesla?
At lower volumes,
Lucid sounds decent.



The lucid audio system is disappointingnting for such an expensive car. I wish cars would have a sub out ( not affected by limiters or subsonic filters, just pure unfiltered bass -pre-out level) and 12 V out in the trunk so that people can augment the bass by adding a sub/amp combo. They could make money by having proprietary outputs which can work with their amps only,Imagine such two outputs allowing two punchy sub on the floor under the seats, etc . problem solved..
 
At lower volumes,
Lucid sounds decent.



The lucid audio system is disappointingnting for such an expensive car. I wish cars would have a sub out ( not affected by limiters or subsonic filters, just pure unfiltered bass -pre-out level) and 12 V out in the trunk so that people can augment the bass by adding a sub/amp combo. They could make money by having proprietary outputs which can work with their amps only,Imagine such two outputs allowing two punchy sub on the floor under the seats, etc . problem solved..
Sorry about the misspellings. My keyboard went crazy
 
Sorry about the misspellings. My keyboard went crazy
I'm curious. Are your comments based on listening in your own car or ?? Also, are you listening to Tidal Hi-Fi Plus Dolby Atmos tracks, and if so which ones have you tried?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top