Lucid Air Stereo "Surreal Sound" Testing Method

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If you have it set to play in hifi it will do that, by buffering until it can play. Low signal just means it may pause again to buffer at some point.

Makes sense!! Thanks again. 😎
 
Yeah I guess if you bought the high res data, the data will come eventually whether it be LTE or 5G to your phone, or LTE to the car. The question is what happens then? USB input would be a direct digital input, whereas WiFI connection sends the same digital data but I guess is more prone to loss/sync issues and is lower bandwidth, and Bluetooth is the most limited bandwidth of them all? In recording studios if I remember correctly 24bit/96khz source material was connected via SPDF digital optical cable or HDMI, we never used USB because of latency problems. Multiply that by a minimum of 9+ channels of audio you’re getting with Atmos encoded audio and that’s a big data hose you’re gonna need.
 
I was lectured by "experts ' on this forum about how great Atmos sounds in Lucid compared to a Bluetooth stream on Tesla or Lucid. I complained about the bass "lacking something." I stated Tesla sounded better since I am new to Lucid. I might be wrong. My Tesla S sounds better than MY Lucid since I suspect those two 8-inch speakers buried under the footwell do not work. Once I reset the Lucid, I can compare again. None of the experts suggested that could be the problem. All the experts told me how Lucid is made for Atmos, Master audio, etc., and my untrained ears cannot tell the wonders of uncompressed music.

I hate to bring it up, but I have bad news: The Atmos on Tidal is a compressed format, 782k, DD+ JOC, just like the compressed AAC. AAC Bluetooth codec is better than Dolby AC3. So Dolby Atmos on Tidal would not make the car sound better in terms of resolution compared to an AAC stream. However, it will sound better to envelop the listener since it is multi-channel vs. stereo.

TIDAL uses a 768 kb/s bit rate for the DD+ with Atmos streaming. -NOT Dolby True HD with Atmos. Yep, you've been listening to compressed Dolby Atmos all this time. The Atmos bit rate on Tidal is lower than on CD audio

The stereo tracks on Tidal are Master Audio, indeed.

There are audio quality differences between lossy (streaming DD+ JOC) and lossless (Dolby TrueHD with Atmos on Blu-ray).

I even noticed somebody copied and pasted from one of those magazines reviewing 100k tube amps and 500k speakers, stating that Tesla bass is designed to cover"poor recordings."
Tesla bass is designed to play a lot harder when customers want to listen at loud levels.

Suppose you know Hi-fi as well as I do. In that case, you'd know that a subwoofer that handles a lot of power and goes very low in the frequency domain can also be adjusted for less bass through tone controls, according to the owner's taste; At Lower volumes, high-performance subs will have less distortion than a tiny low-diameter subwoofer, like the one in Lucid, in a sealed design. It is not too bad, but I think if it had a vented design and a higher diameter, it would go lower and have more authority.


I have about ten different subwoofers at home, and I can tell the difference between different designs. I have all kinds of speakers. I drove many cars and listened to their sound systems. I have a Mini ME DSP P-15 unopened, I will test it soon.

Mr. BunnyLebowski, with all due respect, my name is not " dude." It is straightforward to figure out that the subwoofer's enclosure is small just by looking at it without measuring the cubic feet. When you pop up the Lucid's back trunk, you see the subwoofer enclosure. That is regarding one of your comments.
I never mentioned I was listening to Tidal through Bluetooth. I mentioned Bluetooth, and that was for electronic music on di.FM, which does not mean that I could not use the car app for Tidal.
When I mentioned limiters, this is what I meant. The Lucid DSP will use limiters when sending the bass to the subwoofer to prevent over-excursion. It might even use a high pass filter at 25 HZ since the Lucid sub is so feeble. If I want to add a better sub, I have to pull the signal from the existing Lucid sub and use a high-level to the low-level adaptor, then an amp.

I wish DSP did not alter the low-frequency signal I am pulling; pure bass, like an LFE out, would have been better.


I have a friend in Canada, a music composer; he stated that the differences between 48k, 96k, and 192k are present but very subtle. Same with different compression codecs at high bit rates, So efficient compression at high bit rates through Bluetooth would not ruin the bass, as so many people on this forum stated. Small anemic subwoofers will ruin the bass, not high-efficiency advanced compression codecs.
Most compression artifacts occur in the high-frequency domain.
  • AAC-LC 320kbps 44.1kHz Stereo, for example, is more than perfect for reproducing bass between 20-120 Hz, almost identical to the original.


While all the experts blamed the problem I had in my car on Bluetooth compression, none of you figured out the real problem..-the 8-inch footwell speakers not working.

Using the test tone generator, I also noted a significant drop under 40 Hz. So maybe Lucid will sound better than Tesla after the reset.

Buy 1 Mii, do a blind test between different codecs, and see how much difference you can perceive.

I am posting some pictures of the speakers I have tried lately. Thank you to experts on this forum for teaching the wonders of Hi-fi to my ignorant, untrained ears and lecturing me about the bass response in subwoofers in relationship to the compression algorithms



 

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Yeah I guess if you bought the high res data, the data will come eventually whether it be LTE or 5G to your phone, or LTE to the car. The question is what happens then? USB input would be a direct digital input, whereas WiFI connection sends the same digital data but I guess is more prone to loss/sync issues and is lower bandwidth, and Bluetooth is the most limited bandwidth of them all? In recording studios if I remember correctly 24bit/96khz source material was connected via SPDF digital optical cable or HDMI, we never used USB because of latency problems. Multiply that by a minimum of 9+ channels of audio you’re getting with Atmos encoded audio and that’s a big data hose you’re gonna need.

Bluetooth can be lossless. I am wondering if Lucid can support it through a software update. Or maybe Lucid does not have the chip the 250-dollar blue tooth receivers sold on Amazon have. It could be hardware decoding or software decoding; the software decoding will eat some of the Lucid's processing power.

SPDIF or HDMI in for the Lucid would have been nice.

Watching Netflix while parked or Amazon prime also

I asked someone at Lucid if it would play Atmos video files from a USB stick, and they said maybe in the future. Does it play MP3 from USB like Tesla, did not try yet
 
I meant Bluetooth could be lossless for CD audio, not for surround sound, etc. 192k/44.1, etc. -not enough bandwidth with current lossless compression. AC3 with JOC for Atmos, not supported by the recent versions of Bluetooth
 
Amirm-trained ears, cannot tell the difference between 256k or 320k, and uncompressed. I was listening with 320k compression, di.fm through Bluetooth and people on this forum were telling me how bad it was.... Compared to that amazing Tidal Dolby Atmos everyone was raving about, which is equally compressed, considering is AC3+ JOC. But what do I know... Yep , looks like I have the last word on this , unless someone has something to add


I've done that but once I "reach" the 320kb/s mark (even 256 for most songs) it becomes imperceptible to me, which is completely fine.
It is hard for me too despite my training.

I should also note that training is not limited to hearing impairments but optimal way to take the test. Ability to loop small segments for example is very important as compression artifacts vary from moment to moment. You can have all the training in the world but if all you do is play one clip, then play the other, you may very well miss the differences.

Amir
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These are the Klipsch LF-10, a legendary sub, an earthquake smaller sub, and Martin Logan and Anthony Gallo speakers. As I said, I listened to all sorts of speakers; that is why I think something in my car is wrong, even though it sounds pretty good.
 

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We get it dude, your Tesla’s audio is better than LUCID‘s in your opinion. I don’t know why you continue to go on and on and on and on and on and on about the minutia of technical details. If you don’t like your LUCID’s audio system then please feel free to sell it And move on with your life

The mods should really shut this thread down as this topic has been beaten to death
 
We get it dude, your Tesla’s audio is better than LUCID‘s in your opinion. I don’t know why you continue to go on and on and on and on and on and on about the minutia of technical details. If you don’t like your LUCID’s audio system then please feel free to sell it And move on with your life

The mods should really shut this thread down as this topic has been beaten to death
You do not get it. I said Lucid might sound better after I do the reset, dude, but the "experts" blamed it on Bluetooth instead of the Lucid software glitches. If you could not figure out that much , have a nice life
 
I think part of the issue is your rambling tangential communication style is confusing at least myself about your points, but here’s my attempt to address them:

-why did you bring the Nyquist limit into it? The 22khz aliasing that occurs at 44.1khz has nothing to do with your point of inadequate bass in the car, nor streaming compression formats

-are you saying the car’s audio has poor accuracy as compared to other car systems or not? My ear cannot detect any major flaws in the accuracy of this system, which is not an audiophile level system, but then neither are most recording/mixing studios. My point is the car’s audio system is very accurate.

-the car’s bass does have a drop off below 35hz, so the accuracy below this point may be worse than some other car audio systems if the original mix emphasized frequencies below this point, which few do. Also since you mentioned it, I know the Waves MaxxBass plug in very well, used it since day 1 of its release. So yeah, if you want to slap that on a mix to make it less accurate and extend the bass, you can do so, but I’m confused as to what this would have to do with your criticism of SSP as being disappointing, inferior to Tesla, etc. And as far as bass limiter goes, so if it’s there to prevent distortion-level excursion limiting the max amplitude to the woofer…isn’t that a good thing? I don’t know if the car has one or not, but you said it does, so what’s the problem again?

-if you’re using Bluetooth streaming to try and talk about the fidelity of two channnel 16 bit 44.1khz audio as played back by tidal via Bluetooth to the system, and are comparing that versus the same track in the tidal app in the car, then to my ear for some reason the Bluetooth version of the identical format track is lacking, so I’m not trusting it as a measuring stick for the quality of the sound system. I don’t know if that’s due to how the Lucid processes incoming Bluetooth audio, as the digital data between what Bluetooth is sending versus what Tidal in the car is playing should be identical, but you can sit in the car as I have and compare the two with an identical track, and while I don’t know why, I think the difference is noticeable. This may be a flaw in how the Lucid handles Bluetooth audio, but not a flaw in the quality of the system.

-play INXS Mediate in Dolby Atmos in the Lucid tidal app, and then tell me how disappointing the SSP system in this car is… it sounds incredible. Not disappointing. Not weak bass.

-nowhere did I imply you don’t know pro audio, speakers, etc, yeah you know a lot about all that stuff, but I will directly state you’ve made a lot of very self assured statements about the speaker sizes, enclosures, DSP, etc about the car and levied criticism of the car’s audio based on all those things to try and say “this is why the car’s audio is disappointing”. You can go ahead being disappointed in the car’s audio system but I’m sitting in it thoroughly enjoying it, wondering who these golden ears people are who think it’s underwhelming when I’m listening to a mix I heard in the studio a thousand times and being amazed at how much it sounds like I’m back in the studio. So if the Tesla is better than that, well good for them, but the SSP in the Lucid is impressive enough to be worth the price of admission.
 
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If you detect a difference, it could be how Lucid handles the Bluetooth. If you remember, I mentioned I suspect that the phone decodes and re-encodes the stream instead of sending the bitstream to the Lucid, since changing the volume on the phone will not change it on the Lucid

But It sounds kind of the same on Bluetooth from my phone and the Tidal app on Lucid to me.

I am not advertising Tesla; I love both cars. However, the bass problem kept nagging me, and I felt it on the Tidal app on the vehicle. So I will do a reset. I am curious how it goes.

Can you tell the difference between Dolby True HD Dolby Atmos and Ac3 Dolby Atmos? I am not a studio engineer; I am sure you have better ears. And I am not being sarcastic when I say that.

I will download these MKV files, copy them on USB, and try to play on Lucid, but not sure it supports the codec. Maybe I will convert it to Ac3+JOC and retry
 
Can you tell the difference between Dolby True HD Dolby Atmos and Ac3 Dolby Atmos? I am not a studio engineer; I am sure you have better ears. And I am not being sarcastic when I say that.
AC3 is Dolby’s compression format to fit the multiple channels, but it’s better than MP3 (I think it’s 460kbps vs MP3 320?), but to Dolby’s credit their encoding/decoding codec, which is proprietary, is to my ear less “lossy” than comparing uncompressed 24bit/96khz mixes compressed to 320kbps MP3 format. TrueHD is uncompressed. This is what is delivered to Dolby Cinema theatrical presentations. I was just leaving the film industry in 2010 when Atmos was first starting to be announced, but did get to hear my former employer’s sound design and mix for Ang Lee’s Life of Pi in Atmos in a screening room set up for it, which I believe was one of the first films to be mixed in Atmos, and WOW that was amazing. It’s only recently that music mixes have started to take advantage of Atmos format, but it’s fun when done right.

I will download these MKV files, copy them on USB, and try to play on Lucid, but not sure it supports the codec. Maybe I will convert it to Ac3+JOC and retry
The car cannot play back audio over USB.
 
Amirm-trained ears, cannot tell the difference between 256k or 320k, and uncompressed. I was listening with 320k compression, di.fm through Bluetooth and people on this forum were telling me how bad it was.... Compared to that amazing Tidal Dolby Atmos everyone was raving about, which is equally compressed, considering is AC3+ JOC. But what do I know... Yep , looks like I have the last word on this , unless someone has something to add



It is hard for me too despite my training.

I should also note that training is not limited to hearing impairments but optimal way to take the test. Ability to loop small segments for example is very important as compression artifacts vary from moment to moment. You can have all the training in the world but if all you do is play one clip, then play the other, you may very well miss the differences.

Amir
Founder, Audio Science Review
Founder, Madrona Digital
Review Thread Rules
My Technical Background
My YouTube Channel
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Are you saying you are Amir?
 
Please refer to previous topics in this thread regarding ways to test your audio system to ensure it's working properly. While intriguing this discourse over audio formats has gotten this thread off topic.

 
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