Lucid Air Stereo "Surreal Sound" Testing Method

[Bunnylebowski]

Wireless CarPlay only uses Bluetooth initially to handshake. Then it uses WiFi for communications for everything else. As far as I know, Lucid’s CarPlay will be wireless.

Unfortunately, audio quality is degraded by wifi or bluetooth connectivity as compared to usb. Usb>wifi>bluetooth. This is due to compression algorithms and while these algorithms have advanced, they are still limiting and will impact audio quality.
Wireless carplay uses bluetooth only for initial “handshaking” and creates a closed wifi network. This is better than bluetooth but maxes out at “cd quality” (16bit, 44.1khz). Depending on the kind of usb connection you have and it gets complicated… you can get to 24bit and 192khz but more likely 24bit 96khz.
Can you tell the difference? In a car? Maybe/maybe not. If not moving…. Probably.
I can certainly tell in comparing these various bitrates on a home stereo.

Thanks I wasn’t sure technically how it was done. Then I really hope they make it USB CarPlay for the sake of audio quality and because I prefer Tidal app in CarPlay where I can like tracks and it displays more when you search than the weirdly limited Lucid Tidal interface does.

 

[joec]

Thanks I wasn’t sure technically how it was done. Then I really hope they make it USB CarPlay for the sake of audio quality and because I prefer Tidal app in CarPlay where I can like tracks and it displays more when you search than the weirdly limited Lucid Tidal interface does.

I really hope they do wired as well. I figure wireless will be as good as my AirPods Max, which is pretty darn good to my ears. But wired would obviously be even better. Give people the best possible quality as an option, at least.

 

[borski]

Thanks, I’ll have to try AudioCheck. I agree, the car really should have allowed USB audio, but maybe they’re on to some security knowledge we aren’t, or maybe the car has a flaw that makes USB insecure?

It’s a temporary security measure, is my understanding. Basically, USB ports are one of the most common attack vectors for… well, anything. As an example, Stuxnet would have been impossible if USB had been disabled.

To get the car out, they decided to turn off data access via USB so that they could later audit it and potentially turn it on. Will they? No idea.

But that’s my understanding

 

[PaulM]

I have seen this explanation before but there is a difference between usb data and usb audio and I know they can restrict the input to audio. When it comes to USB audio, there are several different audio formats that can be transferred over a USB connection, including PCM (Pulse Code Modulation), DSD (Direct Stream Digital), and MP3 (MPEG audio Layer 3). The specific audio format used will depend on the devices being used and the capabilities of the USB connection. Right now we have no idea the capabilities of the USB connections in our Lucid Air other than power.

 

[borski]

I have seen this explanation before but there is a difference between usb data and usb audio and I know they can restrict the input to audio. When it comes to USB audio, there are several different audio formats that can be transferred over a USB connection, including PCM (Pulse Code Modulation), DSD (Direct Stream Digital), and MP3 (MPEG audio Layer 3). The specific audio format used will depend on the devices being used and the capabilities of the USB connection. Right now we have no idea the capabilities of the USB connections in our Lucid Air other than power.

I agree completely.

 

[Crazybrit]

Unfortunately, audio quality is degraded by wifi or bluetooth connectivity as compared to usb. Usb>wifi>bluetooth. This is due to compression algorithms and while these algorithms have advanced, they are still limiting and will impact audio quality.
Wireless carplay uses bluetooth only for initial “handshaking” and creates a closed wifi network. This is better than bluetooth but maxes out at “cd quality” (16bit, 44.1khz). Depending on the kind of usb connection you have and it gets complicated… you can get to 24bit and 192khz but more likely 24bit 96khz.
Can you tell the difference? In a car? Maybe/maybe not. If not moving…. Probably.
I can certainly tell in comparing these various bitrates on a home stereo.

You seem to be an authority on this subject, but I’m surprised that WiFi would universally be lower quality than USB. Doesn’t it depend on the implementation? I would think that with enough buffering, LTE/WiFi aught to be able to handle the bandwidth of lossless 192kHz 24bit audio. If Apple implemented CarPlay right, they would use the Bluetooth to communicate with the phone in the car, and stream lossless hi res audio directly from their server to the car via either LTE or WiFi.

 

[borski]

You seem to be an authority on this subject, but I’m surprised that WiFi would universally be lower quality than USB. Doesn’t it depend on the implementation? I would think that with enough buffering, LTE/WiFi aught to be able to handle the bandwidth of lossless 192kHz 24bit audio. If Apple implemented CarPlay right, they would use the Bluetooth to communicate with the phone in the car, and stream lossless hi res audio directly from their server to the car via either LTE or WiFi.

Yeah, you’re right; wifi is not necessarily incapable of streaming lossless audio. At present, however, Apple does not stream lossless over wireless CarPlay.

“Can I listen to lossless audio using CarPlay?
You can listen to lossless audio with CarPlay using a USB connection. Streaming lossless audio in a car over a cellular network will consume significantly more data.” From https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212183

It is unclear if other apps will stream lossless audio, though.

 

[Crazybrit]

Yeah, you’re right; wifi is not necessarily incapable of streaming lossless audio. At present, however, Apple does not stream lossless over wireless CarPlay.

“Can I listen to lossless audio using CarPlay?
You can listen to lossless audio with CarPlay using a USB connection. Streaming lossless audio in a car over a cellular network will consume significantly more data.” From https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212183

It is unclear if other apps will stream lossless audio, though.

Hmm, that paragraph is not clear cut. It doesn’t explicitly say you can’t stream lossless audio over a cellular network.

 

[borski]

Hmm, that paragraph is not clear cut. It doesn’t explicitly say you can’t stream lossless audio over a cellular network.

It does elsewhere, but I can’t find the link now.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

One other method to test the audio system not for audio quality but for random buzzing / vibration either in a transducer or by a loose panel is to play an audio sweep through the system. If at times you hear an rand buzz that is hard to reproduce, use the following free tool over Bluettooth:

f Generator

iOS App Store Link
Google play store Link

As a sweep is playing, try to isolate the offending frequency, then use the balance and fade control on the car audio controls to focus the audio on each channel individually. This is how I isolated a vibration in a door panel on my Model S and could then reproduce for the Mobile Tech. They added padding and we retested to be sure it was resolved. Playing random music makes diagnosing very difficult.

I thought this would be helpful for everyone. I hope I don’t have this issue when I get my Air

 

[Bunnylebowski]

One other method to test the audio system not for audio quality but for random buzzing / vibration either in a transducer or by a loose panel is to play an audio sweep through the system. If at times you hear an rand buzz that is hard to reproduce, use the following free tool over Bluettooth:

f Generator

iOS App Store Link
Google play store Link

As a sweep is playing, try to isolate the offending frequency, then use the balance and fade control on the car audio controls to focus the audio on each channel individually. This is how I isolated a vibration in a door panel on my Model S and could then reproduce for the Mobile Tech. They added padding and we retested to be sure it was resolved. Playing random music makes diagnosing very difficult.

I thought this would be helpful for everyone. I hope I don’t have this issue when I get my Air

I’ve done full frequency sweeps in my car using your method and as long as you’re not playing it back too loud (you should lower it below the 80db reference level once you start panning it to separate speakers because the distortion caused could make for confusion), and have had zero buzzes or rattles or any other issues. That is the best way to isolate a problem speaker though!

 

[Tim-in-CA]

I’ve done full frequency sweeps in my car using your method and as long as you’re not playing it back too loud (you should lower it below the 80db reference level once you start panning it to separate speakers because the distortion caused could make for confusion), and have had zero buzzes or rattles or any other issues. That is the best way to isolate a problem speaker though!

Exactly. Also to find a vibrating panel. The Tesla Mobile tech seemed to be amazed by this method and downloaded the application right then and there. As many people know, Teslas can be rattley!

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Thanks to everyone here for chatting about audio. Last night I sat in the car for a couple of hours playing with the settings.
First thing...It's freezing in the garage so I turned on the heat and the seat...and then it hit me: I COULD SIT HERE ALL NIGHT, WARM AND COMFY ... LISTENING TO MUSIC ! This is something awesome about EVs....no engine noise...no engine gasses...and the charger is literally right in front of my face.

I turned on the local public jazz station...to a trio doing Christmas standards. Turned off the fans... OMG what a wonderful sound environment. It is so quiet in this car...I turned the volume down and the soundstage was just awesome. There is a sweet spot for volume where this system just disappears. I'm loading Tidal as soon as I finish coffee. Thanks everyone !

Moderators ETAL: I spent several hours listening to jazz through the wee hours... did you guys know that the owners manual is right there on that big middle panel? It's really easy to read there, and it's really easy to use. I wish I had known about that. I'm used to books, the phone is impossible, so I've been reading off of the laptop...which also sucks. Putting the owner's manual on that huge center panel is a stroke of genius. I can read and fiddle at the same time. Plus, it gets updated along with the software. Brilliant. Just. Brilliant.
(sorry I"m such a moron ... Lucid has thought this out very well. I am ashamed.)

I'm wondering if this needs to be on the "so you bought a Lucid" things to do and see section:

"Before you drive, spend an hour or two listening to music, and play with the seat settings, and browse through the owner's manual".

I don't know why I did not do this in the first hours of ownership. Also, re: turn headights off. this is the one thing about listening to music in your Lucid, in the garage, in the wee hours: I settled for the parking lights since I could not shut off everything. nice ambience.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

As long as I have my Lucid I will always have a warm and comfortable dedicated listening room.

 

[borski]

Moderators ETAL: I spent several hours listening to jazz through the wee hours... did you guys know that the owners manual is right there on that big middle panel? It's really easy to read there, and it's really easy to use. I wish I had known about that. I'm used to books, the phone is impossible, so I've been reading off of the laptop...which also sucks. Putting the owner's manual on that huge center panel is a stroke of genius. I can read and fiddle at the same time. Plus, it gets updated along with the software. Brilliant. Just. Brilliant.
(sorry I"m such a moron ... Lucid has thought this out very well. I am ashamed.)

Yup! Been there since the earliest versions.

 

[stratus]

May I ask a question about streaming lossless audio? This topic is pretty fascinating to me.
Is it easier or better to stream over a cellular network versus a wireless connection or is there no difference? Thanks in advance.

 

[borski]

May I ask a question about streaming lossless audio? This topic is pretty fascinating to me.
Is it easier or better to stream over a cellular network versus a wireless connection or is there no difference? Thanks in advance.

Depends on the speed of your wireless network and your cellular data speed, but almost always WiFi will be superior to cell.

 

[Drendino]

Thanks to everyone here for chatting about audio. Last night I sat in the car for a couple of hours playing with the settings.
First thing...It's freezing in the garage so I turned on the heat and the seat...and then it hit me: I COULD SIT HERE ALL NIGHT, WARM AND COMFY ... LISTENING TO MUSIC ! This is something awesome about EVs....no engine noise...no engine gasses...and the charger is literally right in front of my face.

I turned on the local public jazz station...to a trio doing Christmas standards. Turned off the fans... OMG what a wonderful sound environment. It is so quiet in this car...I turned the volume down and the soundstage was just awesome. There is a sweet spot for volume where this system just disappears. I'm loading Tidal as soon as I finish coffee. Thanks everyone !

Moderators ETAL: I spent several hours listening to jazz through the wee hours... did you guys know that the owners manual is right there on that big middle panel? It's really easy to read there, and it's really easy to use. I wish I had known about that. I'm used to books, the phone is impossible, so I've been reading off of the laptop...which also sucks. Putting the owner's manual on that huge center panel is a stroke of genius. I can read and fiddle at the same time. Plus, it gets updated along with the software. Brilliant. Just. Brilliant.
(sorry I"m such a moron ... Lucid has thought this out very well. I am ashamed.)

I'm wondering if this needs to be on the "so you bought a Lucid" things to do and see section:

"Before you drive, spend an hour or two listening to music, and play with the seat settings, and browse through the owner's manual".

I don't know why I did not do this in the first hours of ownership. Also, re: turn headights off. this is the one thing about listening to music in your Lucid, in the garage, in the wee hours: I settled for the parking lights since I could not shut off everything. nice ambience.

I couldn’t agree more. I get made fun of in my house for doing garage time in my GT. I find SSP to be remarkable in this car, especially with Dolby Atmos and Mastered music on Tidal.

 

[stratus]

Depends on the speed of your wireless network and your cellular data speed, but almost always WiFi will be superior to cell.

I haven’t noticed a degradation in sound over Tidal when my signal is weaker. Perhaps too subtle ?

 

[borski]

I haven’t noticed a degradation in sound over Tidal when my signal is weaker. Perhaps too subtle ?

If you have it set to play in hifi it will do that, by buffering until it can play. Low signal just means it may pause again to buffer at some point.