Tom Moloughney Range Test

[Maverick]

Hmm, so these podcasts seem to last around 90 minutes. Any guesses on whether it will be towards the beginning or the end?

 

[hydbob]

I would just wait for hmp to come report to us what it was = )

 

[Mountain Man]

That's because they are morons. I own a Tesla, and I think their cars a junk. It's like driving a golf cart. Cool at first, until you realize it is missing most of the features you expect in a car. Those morons think their car is the pinnacle of luxury, technology and range. Because they have blinders on.

Which Tesla do you own? I am on my 3rd Model S in 10 years (currently a P100D) and I would not call them "junk." My P100D is going on 5 years old and it is still solid as a rock. It has niggly little problems that you learn to live with, like a drivers window that doesn't seal correctly, windshield washer jets that are garbage (like a squirt gun), and a UI that has grown very slow. Maybe that's what you mean by "junk"? I have high hopes that my DE will be a whole class higher in terms of quality, but I still would compare the Model S to a 5-series BMW or Mercedes C-class in terms of quality.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I have a 5 series BMW (530e PHEV) and the company would never tolerate a driver's window that doesn't seal correctly. I would have had the car in the dealership and driven away with a loaner the same day. I don't have a Tesla so I can't intelligently comment on the evaluation of its contents but there is definitely some hyperbole there. Companies like Mercedes and BMW may make a car with some problems, but they fix them. I think the test for Lucid will be if it fixes the problems.

 

[stealthpilot]

Which Tesla do you own? I am on my 3rd Model S in 10 years (currently a P100D) and I would not call them "junk." My P100D is going on 5 years old and it is still solid as a rock. It has niggly little problems that you learn to live with, like a drivers window that doesn't seal correctly, windshield washer jets that are garbage (like a squirt gun), and a UI that has grown very slow. Maybe that's what you mean by "junk"? I have high hopes that my DE will be a whole class higher in terms of quality, but I still would compare the Model S to a 5-series BMW or Mercedes C-class in terms of quality.

I have a 2021 Model Y.

Have you owned a 2020 or newer Mercedes or BMW with all of the optional equipment? There is no comparison in terms of build quality, features, tech or luxury. The only edge the Model S has is the powertrain.

 

[manitou202]

No results today. It didn't hit the EPA rating (520 miles) but exceeded 4mi/kWh which would be 472 miles. So it's between 472-520.

We have to wait for the official video.

 

[RichMalden]

I've been watching. He isn't announcing the final number today. But, he said the average was over 4 m/kw (would need to be 4.4 to reach 520) but that it did not reach the 520 (He never expected it to) it did exceed his expectations, it was the longest range he's ever tested. He said ever Tesla he's tested had always been 12-13% below the EPA 5 cycle range and he was mostly expecting similar with Lucid but that it exceeded it.

If I had to guess I think it'll be 490-500 which to me is amazing.

 

[manitou202]

Realistically it goes 75-100 miles further than any other EV on sale today. That's an extra hour of driving and allows for skipping chargers that would be required in other vehicles. It's significant.

 

[hmp10]

When Moloughney was describing his 110-mile loop, he said he did four and a half loops. That would be around 495 miles.

He emphasized that no car he has ever range tested met its EPA numbers if derived using the 5-cycle test (which Tesla, Rivian, Polestar, and Lucid use), nor did he expect the Lucid to. Instead, he was expecting the Lucid to yield 10-13% less in range, which is the typical variance from the 5-cycle result. He would only say that the Lucid exceeded his expectation in this regard.

Kyle Conner, who said he knew the actual number from Moloughney's test, seemed to be chomping at the bit to reveal it. But he held his tongue other than saying that the Lucid easily beat the range produced by any other vehicle that has ever been tested.

 

[Mountain Man]

I have a 2021 Model Y.

Have you owned a 2020 or newer Mercedes or BMW with all of the optional equipment? There is no comparison in terms of build quality, features, tech or luxury. The only edge the Model S has is the powertrain.

Yes, we own a current model Mercedes GLS450 - I still find the aging Model S better than the Mercedes but maybe that's just my bias toward the powertrain and overall EV experience compared to ICE vehicles generally. I admit I have never been in a Model Y and I have heard they are junk, but I think my old P100D "compares" to my wife's GLS in terms of overall interior quality - for example, her seats are not leather but Mercedes' leatherette, which is durable but cold, and the Model S seats are much nicer; the Mercedes dash is inferior to the Model S, but the Mercedes doors close more solidly and the windows are better than the frameless crap on the Models S. I should add that I also own a 2020 Range Rover Supercharged and will admit that every time I climb into it, I say "damn this is nice." The materials and interior design are vastly nicer than the Model S. But then I start it up and drive it and it's like driving a dump truck, with the engine and transmission noise and drivetrain slop.

But the things you're describing --lower-end quality--is one of the reasons I am moving away from Tesla toward Lucid. I have never even seen a Lucid in person, but the interior design is superior to the Model S and professional reviewers say the interior quality is vastly better. So that's a good reason to give Lucid a chance (plus the Model S is grotesquely common in Denver so I'd like to not drive the same car as all my neighbors!).

 

[hydbob]

Yes, we own a current model Mercedes GLS450 - I still find the aging Model S better than the Mercedes but maybe that's just my bias toward the powertrain and overall EV experience compared to ICE vehicles generally. I admit I have never been in a Model Y and I have heard they are junk, but I think my old P100D "compares" to my wife's GLS in terms of overall interior quality - for example, her seats are not leather but Mercedes' leatherette, which is durable but cold, and the Model S seats are much nicer; the Mercedes dash is inferior to the Model S, but the Mercedes doors close more solidly and the windows are better than the frameless crap on the Models S. I should add that I also own a 2020 Range Rover Supercharged and will admit that every time I climb into it, I say "damn this is nice." The materials and interior design are vastly nicer than the Model S. But then I start it up and drive it and it's like driving a dump truck, with the engine and transmission noise and drivetrain slop.

But the things you're describing --lower-end quality--is one of the reasons I am moving away from Tesla toward Lucid. I have never even seen a Lucid in person, but the interior design is superior to the Model S and professional reviewers say the interior quality is vastly better. So that's a good reason to give Lucid a chance (plus the Model S is grotesquely common in Denver so I'd like to not drive the same car as all my neighbors!).

Wow, so you are really buying this car without ever touching one? That's a huge leap of faith, bravo

 

[hmp10]

But the things you're describing --lower-end quality--is one of the reasons I am moving away from Tesla toward Lucid. I have never even seen a Lucid in person, but the interior design is superior to the Model S and professional reviewers say the interior quality is vastly better. So that's a good reason to give Lucid a chance (plus the Model S is grotesquely common in Denver so I'd like to not drive the same car as all my neighbors!).

We find the panel alignment and interior fit and finish of our Model S Plaid to be inferior to the 2015 Model S P90D we traded for it. (However, the design and materials of the Plaid are a significant improvement over the 2015's interior . . . except for that execrable yoke.)

We have a friend who is an incurable cynic and noted curmudgeon who finds fault with everything, to the point that we and most of our friends solicit his opinions on things just for the entertainment value. Last night he was in the back seat of the Air for the fourth or fifth time on the way to dinner. After we exchanged greetings, he quieted down for an unusual length of time. Finally, he said, "you know, I really can't believe how good a job Lucid did with this car. It's so much better than those Teslas you drive." Given the fact that he's a software developer and knows the issues we're having with the Lucid software, his comments last night floored me.

 

[hydbob]

We find the panel alignment and interior fit and finish of our Model S Plaid to be inferior to the 2015 Model S P90D we traded for it. (However, the design and materials of the Plaid are a significant improvement over the 2015's interior . . . except for that execrable yoke.)

We have a friend who is an incurable cynic and noted curmudgeon who finds fault with everything, to the point that we and most of our friends solicit his opinions on things just for the entertainment value. Last night he was in the back seat of the Air for the fourth or fifth time on the way to dinner. After we exchanged greetings, he quieted down for an unusual length of time. Finally, he said, "you know, I really can't believe how good a job Lucid did with this car. It's so much better than those Teslas you drive." Given the fact that he's a software developer and knows the issues we're having with the Lucid software, his comments last night floored me.

Out of curiosity, what car does he drive?

 

[hmp10]

Out of curiosity, what car does he drive?

A Ford Explorer and a Hyundai CUV (I forget the model name) . . . and has a deposit down on a Hyundai Ioniq 5 EV. He also drives a 2018 BMW 750iL that they are keeping during his father-in-law's prolonged illness.

 

[CraZ8]

No results today. It didn't hit the EPA rating (520 miles) but exceeded 4mi/kWh which would be 472 miles. So it's between 472-520.

We have to wait for the official video.

Typical tease for more clicks. Well we have a approximate number based on kWh. It’s obviously not real close to the epa range but over472 miles. I’m guessing 480-490 range. Still exceptional.

 

[stealthpilot]

Yes, we own a current model Mercedes GLS450 - I still find the aging Model S better than the Mercedes but maybe that's just my bias toward the powertrain and overall EV experience compared to ICE vehicles generally. I admit I have never been in a Model Y and I have heard they are junk, but I think my old P100D "compares" to my wife's GLS in terms of overall interior quality - for example, her seats are not leather but Mercedes' leatherette, which is durable but cold, and the Model S seats are much nicer; the Mercedes dash is inferior to the Model S, but the Mercedes doors close more solidly and the windows are better than the frameless crap on the Models S. I should add that I also own a 2020 Range Rover Supercharged and will admit that every time I climb into it, I say "damn this is nice." The materials and interior design are vastly nicer than the Model S. But then I start it up and drive it and it's like driving a dump truck, with the engine and transmission noise and drivetrain slop.

But the things you're describing --lower-end quality--is one of the reasons I am moving away from Tesla toward Lucid. I have never even seen a Lucid in person, but the interior design is superior to the Model S and professional reviewers say the interior quality is vastly better. So that's a good reason to give Lucid a chance (plus the Model S is grotesquely common in Denver so I'd like to not drive the same car as all my neighbors!).

The Lucid seems like a luxury car. They use Aston Martin Leather and generally they have considered the covering of every surface to deliver a luxury experience. They also have a broad set of features like massage seats, window shades, a high end sound system, Apple CarPlay (in theory), etc.

The Tesla's to me, if you set aside the drive train which is very good, seem like something that Ford would build. The grade of leather is really cheap. The feature set is limited, the car seems to lack rigidity and doesn't feel solid. Yes the plastics are pretty good, but so are they in a Ford. If we fast forward a few years when everyone has great electric powertrains, Tesla will need to up their game massively or they will be cross shopped with Ford and Chevy and will need to price at that level. I doubt I will buy a Tesla ever again. I only got it because I was curious.

 

[HC_79]

The Lucid seems like a luxury car. They use Aston Martin Leather and generally they have considered the covering of every surface to deliver a luxury experience. They also have a broad set of features like massage seats, window shades, a high end sound system, Apple CarPlay (in theory), etc.

The Tesla's to me, if you set aside the drive train which is very good, seem like something that Ford would build. The grade of leather is really cheap. The feature set is limited, the car seems to lack rigidity and doesn't feel solid. Yes the plastics are pretty good, but so are they in a Ford. If we fast forward a few years when everyone has great electric powertrains, Tesla will need to up their game massively or they will be cross shopped with Ford and Chevy and will need to price at that level. I doubt I will buy a Tesla ever again. I only got it because I was curious.

You're certainly paying for it with the Lucid though. Right down from the Pure to the Grand Touring they're very pricey EV's and if the Pure is so stripped down where you have to add things like DreamDrive etc. for additional costs it's still going to be a higher price than it's competition in the segment. Tesla seems to have built it reputation on efficiency and the supercharger network. Quality issues have plagued them for years and yet people are still buying them in the masses so why would they upgrade the leather if people don't seem to care.

Lucid's price premium seems to be banking on efficiency \ range over its competitors and quality which i'm a fan of and willing to pay the premium for. I do wonder how many people are in this space willing to pay the premium. If you can get an Audi, BMW, Mercedes with more features but less range will people sacrifice the range? Hopefully they haven't bet on the wrong horse but time will tell and I really want to see them succeed.

 

[hmp10]

I do wonder how many people are in this space willing to pay the premium.

The premium German brands have never suffered for lack of people willing to pay a premium, especially in the U.S. As ICE vehicles begin to drop out of the model lineups these brands offer, I'm sure the customers who pay these premiums will pay the premiums for their luxury EV replacements.

To me, the question isn't whether there will be enough EV buyers at premium price points, but whether Lucid will have the brand caché to pull those customers away from the German brands. The fact that Lucid seems to have landed a better product with its initial offering that Mercedes has landed with its first luxury sedan -- and that BMW still seems to be lost in the wilderness -- might give the Lucid brand enough time to acquire the luster it will take to compete against Mercedes, BMW, and Audi in this space down the road.

 

[Lucken]

If you read the reviews on the new BMW electrics, the i series, they are far from lost in the wilderness. They certainly seem to have their new software, iDrive 8, at a far more developed state than a certain brand we're discussing here.

Yes, the Lucid range trumps the BMW electrics, but the BMW electric drivetrains and software are nothing to sneeze at. Personally I'm not bothered by the sharing of a platform with an ICE car if the execution is good.

I have a reservation for both vehicles and I'm still undecided. Certainly many of the posts here don't increase my confidence that I won't be bothered by many day to day annoyances.

 

[hydbob]

No one is talking much about the VW software, but there are a lot of stories about it not being very good either? Anyone have some first hand experience with it?