Lucid's Future

[hmp10]

Lucid needs to start focusing on "sport" "performance" oriented options if they want to be successful following the Porsche model . . . .

Lucid has been focused more on taking a luxury car and giving it good driving dynamics. This doesn't make a Porsche competitor though.

When I said that Lucid should look to the Porsche business model I didn't mean that they should aim to compete directly with its sports products. What I meant was that Lucid should set its sights on becoming a vehicle brand that plays on the premium periphery of mass-market segments by bringing things such as energy efficiency, space engineering, and sporting dynamics in a greater degree than others to those segments.

If you want to find comparisons to the Porsche lineup, I was thinking more in terms of the Cayenne (SUV), the Macan (CUV), Panamera (sedan) and, maybe at some point, the Cayman/Boxster. As @PetevB has pointed out, those are the products that moved Porsche toward long-term profitability while maintaining its brand association with premium performance.

 

[Leftlane]

Yeah I think the first try from Porsche and Audi (and BMW)was suboptimal just based on the range - way too low for what you are paying. Lucid’s huge advantage for sure but the rest will catch up.

 

[borski]

Well, Lucid is buying up more manufacturing space in AZ (Nikola Bankruptcy). Not sure what Lucid's plans are.

It was extremely cheap, all other things being equal. The 300 employees *alone* make up a huge chunk of that cost, in terms of value.

Lucid bought an option. I wouldn’t be convinced they even have any specific plans that are more than a one-pager or short deck.

Hell, they could likely literally resell the requirement and lease the factory to someone else *for a profit*.

I don’t think it makes sense to speculate, given that.

 

[illopp00]

I, too, used the term "niche" while also putting Porsche among "major automakers". I don't think the two terms are necessarily inconsistent.

Porsche is a hugely-followed presence in the industry and a brand with which far more people are familiar than exotic brands. However, it still operates in fewer segments than the likes of GM, Ford, MB, or even BMW . . . and it is largely at price points that make it relatively small even in the larger segments in which it does play outside of sports cars. For instance, the Cayenne SUV starts at almost $87,000 and goes north of $200,000. And its Panamera sedan starts above $104,000 and runs up to over $156,000. Even the Cayman and the Boxster, its (ahem) "budget" models, start over $70,000 and run up to over $164,000.

I think you could argue that Porsche pricing alone puts it in something of a niche.

Now you can get the 770 HP Panamera E-Hybrid for a cool $210K

 

[illopp00]

A great topic!!!
Another thread I'm watching.

So the challenge seems to be Lucid not putting sales volumes concerns ahead of engineering focus.

With the majority ownership of the Saudi PIF, Lucid is more like Porsche (with Volkswagen ownership) than Tesla, purely from an ownership perspective.
However, that ownership perspective is important because somebody's paying the bills.

The Saudi PIF wants to become a global ev hub. Lucid is in their ev products portfolio along with the PIF-brand Ceer, and more.
If the PIF allows Lucid to operate on the Tesla model, how does that impact Ceer and any other ev brand they may choose to aquire. (i.e. Nissan)?
Perhaps the Lucid platforms remain highly engineered (like Porsche), while Ceer and other ev brands in the PIF portfolio have seperate platforms, not significantly impacted by the Lucid platform. Kind of like a Porsche platform, but not being spread over "many vehicle derivatives", but with the goal of high sales volumes (Tesla).

So, a Porsche engineering focus mixed with a Tesla small number of platforms and high sales volumes.
Or will the PIF decide to have Lucid function in the Porsche role, like Volkswagen does?
2027 will provide us with the answers ... said @Blue Lectroid.

A lot of Automotive industry experts have stated somewhere between 300-400k volume is necessary to make the scale needed to be sustainably profitable. If you lower that volume, then you need to maintain brand image and price. Even BMW has 2.2million cars sold but they have a 1 series FWD car. Lucid is very much able to do EV engineering the right way, and the drivetrain IS currently the lowest cost to make in the industry, so the bones are there. They need to get LEVERAGE from their platforms. I thought Tesla could make a real 7 seat SUV from the Cybertruck platform, but it turns out that is totally bespoke and likely is going to cause them many issues with making money from it.

 

[illopp00]

A great topic!!!
Another thread I'm watching.

So the challenge seems to be Lucid not putting sales volumes concerns ahead of engineering focus.

With the majority ownership of the Saudi PIF, Lucid is more like Porsche (with Volkswagen ownership) than Tesla, purely from an ownership perspective.
However, that ownership perspective is important because somebody's paying the bills.

The Saudi PIF wants to become a global ev hub. Lucid is in their ev products portfolio along with the PIF-brand Ceer, and more.
If the PIF allows Lucid to operate on the Tesla model, how does that impact Ceer and any other ev brand they may choose to aquire. (i.e. Nissan)?
Perhaps the Lucid platforms remain highly engineered (like Porsche), while Ceer and other ev brands in the PIF portfolio have seperate platforms, not significantly impacted by the Lucid platform. Kind of like a Porsche platform, but not being spread over "many vehicle derivatives", but with the goal of high sales volumes (Tesla).

So, a Porsche engineering focus mixed with a Tesla small number of platforms and high sales volumes.
Or will the PIF decide to have Lucid function in the Porsche role, like Volkswagen does?
2027 will provide us with the answers ... said @Blue Lectroid.

I think CEER is 100% the intended customer for Lucid's drivetrain production put into a different lower cost less sophisticated brand....