Tom Moloughney Range Test

[idiot900]

Hence using the GT's 112 kWhr pack and scaling by 5280/6600 gives the Touring 89.6 kWhr. Now Lucid could adjust that up or down with software to adjust the buffer.

Lucid says, for the Touring, 406 mi range and 4.6 mi/kWh on 19" wheels. So a bit over 88 kWh usable. Your calculations make sense to me.

 

[hmp10]

So are the modules double height in the Dream and GT with the removal of one layer as one person is alleging or are those 4 modules removed to make a deep well that has no batteries at all? That’s what I was lead to believe

The only modules that are stacked are under the rear seat and under the front console. The rest of the pack, including the rear footwell, has a single layer of cells. Four modules are removed from the rear footwells to make the smaller battery pack.

According to Zak Edson, Lucid's VP of Sales & Service, the rear footwell with the smaller battery pack is 3.15" lower than with the larger pack. (This is more than the rear legroom difference between the two packs shown on the Lucid website. Edson said that was due to a different measuring technique, but he didn't explain the reason for that.)

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I thought Dream R was 520 and AGT is 516?

 

[Adnillien]

I thought Dream R was 520 and AGT is 516?

Here is more complete comparison:

	Combined	City	Highway
Dream P 19"	471	474.8	466.2
Dream R 19"	520	52.8	520
GT 19"	516	512.1	520.5

 

[HC_79]

We think the battery in the Dream is Samsung and the battery in the GT is LG Chem and that the Touring and Pure will follow the GT. Hence using the GT's 112 kWhr pack and scaling by 5280/6600 gives the Touring 89.6 kWhr. Now Lucid could adjust that up or down with software to adjust the buffer.

This also aligns with Peters presentation to the kingdom last year that they want to get 400 miles on an 80Kw battery. He didn't allude that this would be the case for the Pure but more a vision for the future when he was talking about efficiency and arguing that shoving a larger battery into a car to go further isn't the solution (dumb range). I wouldn't be surprised if they're aiming for around 80 to 90Kw in the Pure

 

[copper]

Matt is a Tesla fanboy, so take his comparison reviews with a grain of salt. I believe he recently bought one for his mother. IMO, it was actually a pretty poor comparison that got quite a few laughs over in the BMW forums.

Not speaking to the rest of his review, but agreed that he is a Tesla fan. I'm not a fan however and still would be cautious about the i4, with the caveat that I only got about 20min of seat time in it. YMMV

Question for the more knowledgeable on the battery pack. I stirred up the fan boys over at Tesla motors club earlier and one member is claiming the rear seat is more cramped than a model 3 because they doubled up on the battery modules in the rear footwell. It’s my understanding that it’s a flat skateboard architecture for the Dream and GT and the modules are removed completely for the touring and pure, not just removing the upper modules on a double pack back there

Been in the rear seat a few times and they're pretty off base. The floor is higher up than an ICE car, but the lengthwise legroom is actually a smidge larger than the S-Class and vastly better than the Model 3. Yes, your legs are up a bit, but you can stretch out much farther. I'm 6'3" and had the front seat in a very generous position, yet when I sat in the rear I felt not at all cramped.

 

[manitou202]

An interesting comment in the InsideEVs podcast discussing the range test. They claimed that Tesla doesn't report all of the energy used by the car in the instrument cluster. They only report the energy going to the motors. Almost all other manufacturers (including Lucid) report all energy used by the car including energy used for HVAC and other accessories.

If true this means that a lot of the efficiency numbers reported by Tesla owners don't actually reflect total energy usage and can't be compared against other manufacturers.

Seems pretty shady on Tesla's part.

 

[HC_79]

An interesting comment in the InsideEVs podcast discussing the range test. They claimed that Tesla doesn't report all of the energy used by the car in the instrument cluster. They only report the energy going to the motors. Almost all other manufacturers (including Lucid) report all energy used by the car including energy used for HVAC and other accessories.

If true this means that a lot of the efficiency numbers reported by Tesla owners don't actually reflect total energy usage and can't be compared against other manufacturers.

Seems pretty shady on Tesla's part.

From a company that is using it's customers as beta testers for FSD you're asking if Tesla is shady? LOL

I have no doubt that Tesla is fully aware that people will push the car to its limits when it comes to FSD and know that lives will be lost. It seems to them that these people died for the good of the data collection they provided Tesla.

So yeah, Tesla is a very shady company.

 

[Bockius]

Probably not, as InsideEVs tests in as close to optimal conditions as they can find. But that isn't really the point in the final analysis. The EPA has always said that its ratings are for the purposes of comparing vehicles and not meant to be a necessarily accurate representation of what any one car will do in real-world conditions.

When driving in the real world and encountering the inevitable variables in weather, terrain, traffic, road surface, etc., you'll be encountering those same things no matter what brand of EV you're driving.

So the real point it this: The Lucid Air starts out with such a wide range advantage over any other EV that, no matter how much the above variables reduce that range, you will still be able to go much further in your Air than in any other EV on the market.

Yes, the Air has a bigger battery pack. Yes, an EV with a heat pump cabin heater (such as a Tesla) might see a little less range loss in cold weather, a driver that does a better job of keeping tires properly inflated will do a bit better than one who doesn't, a propensity for punching the accelerator will exact a bigger penalty in a heavier car (such as the Lucid), and so on . . . . But, when you start out with 60% more nominal range, there is almost nothing you can encounter on the road or you can do with the way you drive the car that will still not leave you with considerably more range than you would have in any other EV that did one thing or another a bit better to enhance range.

Well said.

 

[Sandvinsd]

An interesting comment in the InsideEVs podcast discussing the range test. They claimed that Tesla doesn't report all of the energy used by the car in the instrument cluster. They only report the energy going to the motors. Almost all other manufacturers (including Lucid) report all energy used by the car including energy used for HVAC and other accessories.

If true this means that a lot of the efficiency numbers reported by Tesla owners don't actually reflect total energy usage and can't be compared against other manufacturers.

Seems pretty shady on Tesla's part.

I will always calculate efficiency and economic cost the same way as I would for an ICE.

For an ICE, that means miles driven / gallons dispensed. My cost per mile is the cost of the gas going into the car / miles I drove.
For an EV that is miles driven / kWs delivered. Charging losses by the EVSE and losses due to AC-DC conversion are all part of the equation. For cost per mile, it is my cost of electricity leaving my outlet / miles I was able to drive.

 

[hydbob]

An interesting comment in the InsideEVs podcast discussing the range test. They claimed that Tesla doesn't report all of the energy used by the car in the instrument cluster. They only report the energy going to the motors. Almost all other manufacturers (including Lucid) report all energy used by the car including energy used for HVAC and other accessories.

If true this means that a lot of the efficiency numbers reported by Tesla owners don't actually reflect total energy usage and can't be compared against other manufacturers.

Seems pretty shady on Tesla's part.

Haha, I wonder how many people will go after Tom for slandering Tesla, because then their efficiency numbers are lower than calculated.

 

[Lucken]

Not speaking to the rest of his review, but agreed that he is a Tesla fan. I'm not a fan however and still would be cautious about the i4, with the caveat that I only got about 20min of seat time in it. YMMV

The reviews from virtually all objective reviewers have been universally praising of the i4, both the mechanicals & the software. Let’s be honest, the Lucid is more of a risk than the BMW. Putting both cars aside, there is no question that there are fewer future concerns of BMW as a company than Lucid. Granted that would not deter me from proceeding with the Lucid, but reality is reality.

There are no i4 testers available quite yet, so I can’t speak to either car from a driving standpoint. Almost nobody has even seen an i4 in the U.S. I did sit in the 4 series Grand Coupe, which is the body clone of the i4, and I was very impressed with the materials & construction quality.

So we shall see, two very nice cars.

 

[copper]

The reviews from virtually all objective reviewers have been universally praising of the i4, both the mechanicals & the software. Let’s be honest, the Lucid is more of a risk than the BMW. Putting both cars aside, there is no question that there are fewer future concerns of BMW as a company than Lucid. Granted that would not deter me from proceeding with the Lucid, but reality is reality.

There are no i4 testers available quite yet, so I can’t speak to either car from a driving standpoint. Almost nobody has even seen an i4 in the U.S. I did sit in the 4 series Grand Coupe, which is the body clone of the i4, and I was very impressed with the materials & construction quality.

So we shall see, two very nice cars.

Don’t get me wrong - I definitely agree that BMW as a company is less of a risk as a company. The i4 I got seat time in was fun and had an excellent interior for sure.

I think it is better compared to the Model 3 (and would absolutely win that contest outside of the benefit of Tesla’s supercharger network), but is outclassed by the Lucid.

 

[Lucken]

Don’t get me wrong - I definitely agree that BMW as a company is less of a risk as a company. The i4 I got seat time in was fun and had an excellent interior for sure.

I think it is better compared to the Model 3 (and would absolutely win that contest outside of the benefit of Tesla’s supercharger network), but is outclassed by the Lucid.

To be honest, I don't even think of the M3 as the same class of car, but that's me.

Out of curiosity, where in the U.S. did you get to sit in the car? My dealer was telling me that only those involved in training sessions from various BMW dealers, actually got to sit in one. There simply aren't any in the U.S. at this point.

I agree that the Lucid is in a different class...certainly from a price, size & range perspective. However the BMW offers more technology than the Lucid, derived from the IDrive8.

 

[copper]

Out of curiosity, where in the U.S. did you get to sit in the car? My dealer was telling me that only those involved in training sessions from various BMW dealers, actually got to sit in one. There simply aren't any in the U.S. at this point.

Got to take a spin in one on a trip recently, courtesy of a BMW employee I know. Very much against the rules for them so I'll leave it at that

 

[Lucken]

Got to take a spin in one on a trip recently, courtesy of a BMW employee I know. Very much against the rules for them so I'll leave it at that

Color me jealous. I have 2 cars reserved and I haven't been able to test drive either. What a crazy time we live in.

 

[copper]

Color me jealous. I have 2 cars reserved and I haven't been able to test drive either. What a crazy time we live in.

It is crazy! I've ordered/reserved a number of cars since early 2021 and the only one I've been able to confirm is the Lucid, and that was the last one I reserved (September). I've been lucky to get some drives, but actually getting a car I want has been next to impossible. Hope you get one of the two sooner rather than later.

 

[hydbob]

It is crazy! I've ordered/reserved a number of cars since early 2021 and the only one I've been able to confirm is the Lucid, and that was the last one I reserved (September). I've been lucky to get some drives, but actually getting a car I want has been next to impossible. Hope you get one of the two sooner rather than later.

What other cars do you have on order?

 

[copper]

What other cars do you have on order?

Still active:

• Model S LR (ordered in February last year, delivery in April)
• Rivian R1T
• F-150 lightning
• EQS 580

I cancelled my Ioniq 5 and Taycan CT 4S orders after trying them out and deciding to pass on them. Since I confirmed my AGT order I expect to cancel the Model S before it delivers. I had a place in line on the i4 and iX but passed on both.