Tom Moloughney Range Test

[hydbob]

You're never going to sway those people away from Tesla. They're just not interested in hearing anything negative and nothing Tesla does is wrong. Even with the 118Kw battery this range test shows that the Lucid is a very efficient vehicle and if you put a similar size battery in the car to match a Tesla they would probably be on par in terms of efficiency. Tesla has been the range king not by just shoving in huge batteries like the traditional automakers are doing and now it appears Lucid is in the same boat. I look at it as, we need companies like Tesla and Lucid to push the limits because it's clear that the traditional automakers just can't seem to get this right.

Except, the Lucid is still more efficient regardless if you put the same size battery in or not. That's the whole point and the reason the Tesla crowd is claiming fraud, lol

 

[manitou202]

Except, the Lucid is still more efficient regardless if you put the same size battery in or not. That's the whole point and the reason the Tesla crowd is claiming fraud, lol

Exactly. Assuming the new Model S with 19" wheels on a 70mph range test goes 13% less than the EPA range, you are looking at 352 miles. Add in another 18% battery capacity and you are only at 415 miles of range.

So a Model S with a Lucid battery pack would only go 415 miles compared to 500 for the Lucid AIr. That is a big difference in efficiency. The Model 3 stuffed with a Lucid battery pack appears it could hit the 500 mile range. So essentially Lucid is able to achieve Model 3 levels of efficiency, with a similar power output as a Model S Plaid, and offer more interior and front storage space.

 

[manitou202]

New member here. I have a reservation for a Pure. Can I reasonably infer that the equivalent 70mph range test (with 19"wheels) would be at least 4.3mi/kwh * 85kwh usable battery capacity = 365.5 miles? OR should weight reduction with smaller battery and rear wheel drive (instead of AWD) boost this to perhaps 4.7mi/kwh * 85kwh = 400 miles!? Thanks.

We don't know the size of the Lucid Air Pure battery pack. At this point I would assume a 400 mile EPA rated range. If it achieves a similar level of efficiency on the 70mph test compared to the Lucid Air Dream (4% loss versus EPA) then you are looking at closer to 385 miles. I would take whatever the Pure EPA range ends up hitting and subtract 4%.

Just remember the 70mph test is an ideal test. It would be hard to hit this range in normal situations. This test is best to compare vehicles on the same scale. So if you have one of the EV's listed on the test, a Model 3 for example, and it goes 310 miles versus the Lucid 500 miles, then it would be safe to assume the Lucid would go 60% further than the typical range you are seeing in your Model 3. Or in the case of the Air Pure it would go 24% further than the Model 3.

 

[RichMalden]

Exactly. Assuming the new Model S with 19" wheels on a 70mph range test goes 13% less than the EPA range, you are looking at 352 miles. Add in another 18% battery capacity and you are only at 415 miles of range.

So a Model S with a Lucid battery pack would only go 415 miles compared to 500 for the Lucid AIr. That is a big difference in efficiency. The Model 3 stuffed with a Lucid battery pack appears it could hit the 500 mile range. So essentially Lucid is able to achieve Model 3 levels of efficiency, with a similar power output as a Model S Plaid, and offer more interior and front storage space.

I wonder if the Tesla efficiency would get worse with the weight of the larger battery. Lucid is achieving the nice efficiency with the weight already in it.

 

[borski]

We don't know the size of the Lucid Air Pure battery pack. At this point I would assume a 400 mile EPA rated range. If it achieves a similar level of efficiency on the 70mph test compared to the Lucid Air Dream (4% loss versus EPA) then you are looking at closer to 385 miles. I would take whatever the Pure EPA range ends up hitting and subtract 4%.

Just remember the 70mph test is an ideal test. It would be hard to hit this range in normal situations. This test is best to compare vehicles on the same scale. So if you have one of the EV's listed on the test, a Model 3 for example, and it goes 310 miles versus the Lucid 500 miles, then it would be safe to assume the Lucid would go 60% further than the typical range you are seeing in your Model 3. Or in the case of the Air Pure it would go 24% further than the Model 3.

Except it wasn’t an ideal test. Wasn’t flat, temp wasn’t perfect, was in AZ and not NJ which is flatter, had AC on, etc. It’s actually a fairly realistic test once you have adaptive cruise control.

Also, it’s the same test all the Teslas were tested against except theirs was actually more ideal, since it was in NJ which is flat.

 

[HC_79]

I do love how everyone was like "who drives for 7 hours straight. This is stupid and not needed". They're missing the point that it's not about driving for 7 hours straight but more getting you further when charging locations aren't still aren't in high numbers. Someone nailed it when they said if they can get to their location where they're staying the night without needing to stop for a charge in between it's ideal as they can just charge overnight at the hotel.

 

[manitou202]

I do love how everyone was like "who drives for 7 hours straight. This is stupid and not needed". They're missing the point that it's not about driving for 7 hours straight but more getting you further when charging locations aren't still aren't in high numbers. Someone nailed it when they said if they can get to their location where they're staying the night without needing to stop for a charge in between it's ideal as they can just charge overnight at the hotel.

Yep. We regularly drive to summit county to go skiing. It's 250 miles round trip in freezing cold temperatures. Every EV I have owned (Model X LR, E-tron, Taycan, Polestar) has not been able to make the round trip without charging. The Air is the first EV I'm confident could make the trip without charging.

Same goes for driving to my father-in-laws through the mountains. It's 275 miles one way. A Model 3 or Model S might come close, but I would barely be able to make it. The Lucid again is the first vehicle I will be able to make the trip without charging along the way.

People also forget that on long roadtrips with EV's you don't charge to 100% and then drive until the battery is almost empty. You typically use the 15%-70% range. Go to the website "A Better Route Planner" and enter a mid range road trip of maybe 800 miles. Compare a Model S, versus a Taycan, versus the Lucid Air. You will see that it recommends typically charging from 15% to about 50-70% depending on the distance between chargers. With the Lucid Air my route to Phoenix cuts the number of charging stops from 6 (with a Taycan or Model S) down to 3. That's a big difference.

 

[CraZ8]

Question for the more knowledgeable on the battery pack. I stirred up the fan boys over at Tesla motors club earlier and one member is claiming the rear seat is more cramped than a model 3 because they doubled up on the battery modules in the rear footwell. It’s my understanding that it’s a flat skateboard architecture for the Dream and GT and the modules are removed completely for the touring and pure, not just removing the upper modules on a double pack back there

 

[CLTGT]

The other thing not taken into consideration in these tests is humidity. I have no clue what the impact would be, but I would imagine you might get more range in lower humidity AZ than in humid NJ. There are many factors and this is just one that I have not seen mentioned.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I do love how everyone was like "who drives for 7 hours straight. This is stupid and not needed". They're missing the point that it's not about driving for 7 hours straight but more getting you further when charging locations aren't still aren't in high numbers. Someone nailed it when they said if they can get to their location where they're staying the night without needing to stop for a charge in between it's ideal as they can just charge overnight at the hotel.

I drove home from residency on breaks and drive was 11 hours one way. Other than stopping for food and the bathroom it was pretty straight...

 

[Adnillien]

The other thing not taken into consideration in these tests is humidity. I have no clue what the impact would be, but I would imagine you might get more range in lower humidity AZ than in humid NJ. There are many factors and this is just one that I have not seen mentioned.

Higher humidity makes the air less dense. I would think that the range would be better with higher humidity and lower density. Now altitude could factor in. The altitude for this test was between 1200 and 1800 feet. If New Jersey is lower, then AZ would give better range with the less dense air due to altitude.

 

[hydbob]

Question for the more knowledgeable on the battery pack. I stirred up the fan boys over at Tesla motors club earlier and one member is claiming the rear seat is more cramped than a model 3 because they doubled up on the battery modules in the rear footwell. It’s my understanding that it’s a flat skateboard architecture for the Dream and GT and the modules are removed completely for the touring and pure, not just removing the upper modules on a double pack back there

Lol, I'm sure anyone who has sat in a dream back seat and compared to a Model 3 should go back to school, maybe kindergarten

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Higher humidity makes the air less dense. I would think that the range would be better with higher humidity and lower density. Now altitude could factor in. The altitude for this test was between 1200 and 1800 feet. If New Jersey is lower, then AZ would give better range with the less dense air due to altitude.

Ok, let me pull out the Round-UP, this has seriously gotten into the weeds.

 

[Steveinarizona]

One thing I need to ponder is if the speedometer was off by 2 MPH, would that also make the mileage off also. If you multiply 500*70/72 you will get 486 miles. Should this be the range?

No. Automakers make the speed dial be off by about 2-3 miles in order to avoid law suits that they caused the driver to speed. But the odometer setting is independent of that and records accurate distances.

 

[Adnillien]

We don't know the size of the Lucid Air Pure battery pack. At this point I would assume a 400 mile EPA rated range. If it achieves a similar level of efficiency on the 70mph test compared to the Lucid Air Dream (4% loss versus EPA) then you are looking at closer to 385 miles. I would take whatever the Pure EPA range ends up hitting and subtract 4%.

We know enough to make a good guess at the Touring battery. We know that the Dream and GT has 6600 cells with 22 modules (300 cells in each module). We also know that the battery is made of 30 parallel strings of 220 cells. To keep the same 924 volt system, the Touring battery will need to be a multiple of 220 cells. We also know that the four modules in the rear seat foot well are removed in the Touring and Pure. 18 modules with 300 cells (5400 cells) is not divisible by 220. Hence, another 120 cells must be removed giving 24 parallel strings of 220 cells (5280 cells).

We think the battery in the Dream is Samsung and the battery in the GT is LG Chem and that the Touring and Pure will follow the GT. Hence using the GT's 112 kWhr pack and scaling by 5280/6600 gives the Touring 89.6 kWhr. Now Lucid could adjust that up or down with software to adjust the buffer.

Lucid is advertising the same estimated EPA range for both the Pure and Touring so with no front engine and better efficiency because of no front engine, maybe the Pure will have a smaller battery and the same range. Maybe the Pure will have more range than the Touring and the same battery?

 

[Adnillien]

this has seriously gotten into the weeds

Just the Air, its all in the name.

 

[CraZ8]

We know enough to make a good guess at the Touring battery. We know that the Dream and GT has 6600 cells with 22 modules (300 cells in each module). We also know that the battery is made of 30 parallel strings of 220 cells. To keep the same 924 volt system, the Touring battery will need to be a multiple of 220 cells. We also know that the four modules in the rear seat foot well are removed in the Touring and Pure. 18 modules with 300 cells (5400 cells) is not divisible by 220. Hence, another 120 cells must be removed giving 24 parallel strings of 220 cells (5280 cells).

We think the battery in the Dream is Samsung and the battery in the GT is LG Chem and that the Touring and Pure will follow the GT. Hence using the GT's 112 kWhr pack and scaling by 5280/6600 gives the Touring 89.6 kWhr. Now Lucid could adjust that up or down with software to adjust the buffer.

Lucid is advertising the same estimated EPA range for both the Pure and Touring so with no front engine and better efficiency because of no front engine, maybe the Pure will have a smaller battery and the same range. Maybe the Pure will have more range than the Touring and the same battery?

So are the modules double height in the Dream and GT with the removal of one layer as one person is alleging or are those 4 modules removed to make a deep well that has no batteries at all? That’s what I was lead to believe

 

[Adnillien]

So are the modules double height in the Dream and GT with the removal of one layer as one person is alleging or are those 4 modules removed to make a deep well that has no batteries at all? That’s what I was lead to believe

From all the pictures that I have seen, they are removed. That is also what the sales advisors have told me.

 

[Adnillien]

Lucid shows identical curb weights for each wheel size across the Dream P, Dream R, and Grand Touring trim levels. I still believe the difference in the battery pack capacity lies in the fact that the Samsung cells allow Lucid to use smaller buffers in the Dream than the LG Chem cells allow in the Grand Touring. Both pack have the same number of modules with the same number of cells in each module.

View attachment 604

According to the EPA filing, all of the cars including the 19" wheels were tested with an "equivalent test weight" of 5500 lbs. The filing also shows the battery cell capacity of 150 (no units given) for both the Dream and GT. As hmp10 states, Lucid is buffering the GT more than the Dream. I think of three possibilities for this.
- The Samsung batteries are more robust for 100% charging than the LG Chem batteries.
- Lucid limited the GT so that the Dream would have more range
- Since the GT is meant for high volume production, Lucid wanted the extra buffer to protect the batteries for warranty reasons.

 

[manitou202]

So are the modules double height in the Dream and GT with the removal of one layer as one person is alleging or are those 4 modules removed to make a deep well that has no batteries at all? That’s what I was lead to believe

The cells are 70mm tall, so about 2.75". Add in the housing and other components and you probably lose about 4" of height measured from the floor to the seat. So your legs sit up a little higher in the Dream and GT with the larger battery pack.