Sapphire in September

[hmp10]

Sapphire is meant to be a limited edition, super special, proof of concept. It doesn’t matter if they sell 5 or 500 of them. It was never meant to appeal to a giant audience. They will set a production number in the low hundreds and sell every one of them in minutes. That’s the kind of car it is.

I hope you're right. However, the whole Air lineup was meant to be a proof of concept of sorts for the proposition that a fast, roomy, feature-laden electric sedan could show range and efficiency numbers to embarrass all comers. They succeeded, and now unsold cars are sitting in inventory, people are being laid off, and worry is growing over whether Lucid has misread the market in terms of how many buyers will pay the price for this signal accomplishment.

I fear that it does matter if the Sapphire sells only in the double or low triple digits. Investors will see it as the second time Lucid has misread the market.

I am a Lucid fan who would be drooling at the prospect of a slightly more sport-tuned, tri-motor, carbon-braked Air that retained the luxury vibe of the Dream Edition, and I would pay $250K to get it. However, I am not willing to give up our Dream for a car that really only makes sense on the track. I have always opted for the highest performance version of every German car I have owned, but it has never been with the intention to putting the car on the track. And the sales of MB AMG's, BMW M's, and Audi RS' indicate there are a lot more buyers such as I than hard-core race trackers.

The sooner Lucid gets past Sapphire and starts shipping Gravity, the better.

Amen. Sadly, this has become the thread by which all things Lucid now hang.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I was surprised at how not claustrophobic the Pure felt, tbh. They adjusted the lengths of both windshields and somehow managed to make it not feel like you are in a can.

When you’re going that fast you’re probably not looking at the clouds or mountain tops around you anyway. While the Lucid glass roof is fantastic, I think the aluminum roof is the right choice for the target customer for this car, who probably is less likely to be putting this thing in smooth mode/high regen while doing a leisurely scenic drive.

 

[hmp10]

When you’re going that fast you’re probably not looking at the clouds or mountain tops around you anyway. While the Lucid glass roof is fantastic, I think the aluminum roof is the right choice for the target customer for this car, who probably is less likely to be putting this thing in smooth mode/high regen while doing a leisurely scenic drive.

I don't spend much time actually peering through the roof of my car, no matter what speed I'm driving. (On the other hand, backseat passengers often comment on the view through the roof.) However, the ambient light the glass canopy admits into the car gives the cabin a sense of "airiness" that is palpable, registering almost on a subconscious level. I have never been in a car with a belt line as high as the Air and a roof line as low that nevertheless creates such a sense of openness.

 

[borski]

I fear that it does matter if the Sapphire sells only in the double or low triple digits.

Not if they make it a limited edition with only double or low triple digits. Then it wouldn’t raise a stink with wall st or the media.

 

[Volund]

Everyone always compares price points.

The new Tesla Roadster will actually be am interesting comparison to the Sapphire because it looks good, but I wonder which will be faster? All while getting a massage and hauling 5 very comfortable passengers and luggage lol

 

[Rob Stark]

A sports car and a sports sedan are two different things.

At $250k there is probably more demand for a sports car form factor. At this price point it is highly likely this is not the buyers one and only car.

At $250k, the Tesla Roadster will have SpaceX package. That should make it at least quicker. Being smaller and lighter should make it handle better.

 

[Rogue]

How much does the glass roof weigh? I don't understand how some weight can make such a difference. The motors weigh 160lbs with everything at a weight reduction of 1/3 to competitors: https://www.wardsauto.com/2022-10-best-engines-propulsion-systems/lucid-air-monstrous-lightweight

Does 50+ pounds really make a difference per motor? 3 x motors is 150lbs. The window is how much: 50-60? I don't know the weight. What I'm really trying to get at is you could put an adult in the passenger seat to cancel out the weight savings, particularly the heftier American body. So how much does the difference actually matter?

I've also seen people note a difference in rim weight being noticeable. Haven't had the chance to experience anything of the sort, so I was hoping for insight from those experienced on the actual difference in drive from the weight difference, particularly in a 5,200lb car.

 

[Rob Stark]

So now, it's about Lucid's production numbers, and not the fact that their performance is better (which was part of your original point anyways)? What a joke.

The joke is Lucid fans throwing shade at Tesla for being vaporware.

 

[Artemis]

The joke is Lucid fans throwing shade at Tesla for being vaporware.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no proof of the Roadster (note I say Roadster, not Tesla) achieving any of the claims they made at its announcement. No proof of quarter mile times, acceleration figures, range; only the butt-o-meter of people at the event. There hasn't been a single spotting of a driving Roadster outside the event. Meanwhile, the Sapphire exists, shown in the Hagerty drag race, and prototypes have been spotted on the road. Tell me which one is vaporware and which one isn't.

 

[hydbob]

How much does the glass roof weigh? I don't understand how some weight can make such a difference. The motors weigh 160lbs with everything at a weight reduction of 1/3 to competitors: https://www.wardsauto.com/2022-10-best-engines-propulsion-systems/lucid-air-monstrous-lightweight

Does 50+ pounds really make a difference per motor? 3 x motors is 150lbs. The window is how much: 50-60? I don't know the weight. What I'm really trying to get at is you could put an adult in the passenger seat to cancel out the weight savings, particularly the heftier American body. So how much does the difference actually matter?

I've also seen people note a difference in rim weight being noticeable. Haven't had the chance to experience anything of the sort, so I was hoping for insight from those experienced on the actual difference in drive from the weight difference, particularly in a 5,200lb car.

I don't think it's weight. Doesn't having a metal roof provide more rigidity to the structure, hence better handling?

 

[hmp10]

I don't think it's weight. Doesn't having a metal roof provide more rigidity to the structure, hence better handling?

I read up on this some time ago during an earlier discussion about the glass canopy. Car roofs get their strength entirely from the structural members, not from the roof covering. In fact, the thin sheet metal on metal roofs flexes more than glass panels, which remain more rigid until they actually break. Even in rollovers, metal roofs were found to make no contribution to the safety of the passengers.

 

[xponents]

I don't think it's weight. Doesn't having a metal roof provide more rigidity to the structure, hence better handling?

..Not by that much. The weight gains are much more significant. I do wonder why lucid didnt make the roof carbon?

 

[xponents]

Tesla is discounting inventory Model S/X including Plaids by $7500

additional you get $1000 with referral code
3 years free Supercharging
3 months free FSD.

Soon you will be able to get a Model S Plaid, Model X Plaid for the wife and a Model 3 Performance for your heir apparent for the price of one Sapphire.


View attachment 13008

Well yeah, but what are you going to do, combine all of those cars into one and get a 1.8 0-60? Some people just want the fastest cars in the world.
Also, have you tried taking a turn in a plaid? You guys basically replaced the challenger for that.

 

[hmp10]

How much does the glass roof weigh? I don't understand how some weight can make such a difference.

I don't have any figures, but windshield glass is quite heavy -- considerably moreso than a thin panel of aluminum sheeting -- especially at the size of the Lucid's glass canopy.

And it's not just a matter of weight. The glass canopy sits at the top of the car where it will raise the car's center of gravity, impacting both handling and braking.

These are factors that probably become material only in extreme track conditions, not in any noticeable way on public roads. It's the reason I think this roof trick is another step in making the Sapphire more purely a track car than a hyper-powerful luxury road car.

 

[joec]

In a car like Sapphire, it’s a game of shaving tenths of a second. If a metal roof makes the car just that much faster, you do it.

 

[Electrified]

How much does the glass roof weigh? I don't understand how some weight can make such a difference. The motors weigh 160lbs with everything at a weight reduction of 1/3 to competitors: https://www.wardsauto.com/2022-10-best-engines-propulsion-systems/lucid-air-monstrous-lightweight

Does 50+ pounds really make a difference per motor? 3 x motors is 150lbs. The window is how much: 50-60? I don't know the weight. What I'm really trying to get at is you could put an adult in the passenger seat to cancel out the weight savings, particularly the heftier American body. So how much does the difference actually matter?

I've also seen people note a difference in rim weight being noticeable. Haven't had the chance to experience anything of the sort, so I was hoping for insight from those experienced on the actual difference in drive from the weight difference, particularly in a 5,200lb car.

Every pound that can be cut counts, and even more so when it helps lower the CG. And let's not forget that savings in roof weight can and will help in compensating for the fat-ass driving the car

 

[xponents]

I don't have any figures, but windshield glass is quite heavy -- considerably moreso than a thin panel of aluminum sheeting -- especially at the size of the Lucid's glass canopy.

And it's not just a matter of weight. The glass canopy sits at the top of the car where it will raise the car's center of gravity, impacting both handling and braking.

These are factors that probably become material only in extreme track conditions, not in any noticeable way on public roads. It's the reason I think this roof trick is another step in making the Sapphire more purely a track car than a hyper-powerful luxury road car.

Wouldnt the "hyper-powerful luxury" be the GT-P or the DE-P?
I do wish we could just have a tri motor grand touring without the track goodies.

 

[RM-S8]

So, it looks like that's the question (glass vs. metal roof) one of us have to ask when invited for a test drive.
I'm assuming after the deposit, which I'm doing today I'll be invited

 

[RM-S8]

Wouldnt the "hyper-powerful luxury" be the GT-P or the DE-P?
I do wish we could just have a tri motor grand touring without the track goodies.

Yes big time, without the track goodies.

 

[xponents]

So, it looks like that's the question (glass vs. metal roof) one of us have to ask when invited for a test drive.
I'm assuming after the deposit, which I'm doing today I'll be invited

So you decided to get the sapphire? What made you change your mind?