Problems, glitches, issues and observations etc

[dawktah LucidGT]

It can't possibly be the case that a straight copy of the NFC data payload would work. This would be ridiculously insecure and I can't imagine Lucid would have designed it this way.

Card is the key the same as any lock. Have the key you can copy. If you have the lock without the key you have to pick the lock. Are you saying the data is so easy to duplicate you can open any device using random data set?

 

[hydbob]

Here the key thing

 

[Kzooguy]

How did he connect to the car, USB or the OBDII?

Sorry for the delayed response but the tech used the obdII which is located in the rear trunk on the right side to connect to the laptop.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Here the key thing

Looks to me you should be able to connect anything compatible.

 

[idiot900]

Card is the key the same as any lock. Have the key you can copy. If you have the lock without the key you have to pick the lock. Are you saying the data is so easy to duplicate you can open any device using random data set?

I'm saying that can't possibly the case - it's probably something similar to Tesla:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/drksso

Where a phone could do it but it wouldn't be as simple as simply swiping a key card for a few seconds and duplicating it.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I'm saying that can't possibly the case - it's probably something similar to Tesla:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/drksso

Where a phone could do it but it wouldn't be as simple as simply swiping a key card for a few seconds and duplicating it.

To use an analogy this is the same as cutting the key. I still don't understand why you wouldn't be able to use an aftermarket ring and use as key card? Car would still have to accept encryption.

 

[idiot900]

To use an analogy this is the same as cutting the key. I still don't understand why you wouldn't be able to use an aftermarket ring and use as key card? Car would still have to accept encryption.

The cut of a key is a static few bits of information that does not change and is visible to all. The Tesla key uses public/private key encryption, where each device can verify that the other has the correct private key without actually sharing the private key. These systems would be designed never to share the private keys, so a straight "cutting the key" would not work.

However the spirit of what you are saying is correct - the keys can't be duplicated, but the car can be instructed to trust new keys, for the same end effect.

 

[pam4_AGT]

Just went on a ~30-mile run in the car this morning. For once, everything seemed fine. Screens functioned throughout. Car switched from WiFi to LTE on its own (although the switch from the WiFi signal display to the LTE display took some time). Alexa found both the music I requested and accepted the navigation address I gave it. And the nav system displayed the route, showed pending turns, and gave audio prompts. These features continued to function as the LTE signal strength varied from 1 to 4 bars.

I wondered if they did something OTA with the car, but I couldn't find any notice of an update.

Except for the screen freezes and blackouts, much of what I've been experiencing seems to have to do with cell signals to the car.

@hmp10, that is great news! I really hope they figured out what was going on and pushed an update.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

The cut of a key is a static few bits of information that does not change and is visible to all. The Tesla key uses public/private key encryption, where each device can verify that the other has the correct private key without actually sharing the private key. These systems would be designed never to share the private keys, so a straight "cutting the key" would not work.

However the spirit of what you are saying is correct - the keys can't be duplicated, but the car can be instructed to trust new keys, for the same end effect.

I guess you confirmed what I was saying, I've said Tesla styled ring a couple of times. Thanks!

 

[hmp10]

@hmp10, that is great news! I really hope they figured out what was going on and pushed an update.

Unfortunately, my optimism was premature. I just did another test drive to see how things were behaving, and there were new problems plus the old ones returning.

When I got into the car, I decided to reposition the steering wheel a bit. When I hit the "Save to Profile" button, the car shut down. All the screens went black, the A/C stopped, and the car rebooted.

After the reboot, I called up music via Alexa and got what I requested. (I was on the WiFi signal in the garage.)

I backed out of the garage and brought up the Homelink icon to close the door. The door came down about two feet and then went back up, and I saw the overhead light was blinking, indicating that Homelink had somehow put the door opener into programming mode. Each time I tried the Homelink button, the door would come down the two feet and then go back up. I switched to the old remote I keep in the car, but the problem continued. Finally, I pulled around the driveway circle so that the car was not aimed at the door, and the old remote succeeded in closing the door. (The Homelink function was the only thing the techs seemed to have been able to fix when they were here two days ago.) When I returned home and tried to open the door using Homelink, the door operated normally.

After this little drama, I drove off. When I moved beyond WiFi range of the house, the music stopped. I continued to drive, waiting for the system to switch to the LTE signal as it had done this morning. It never did. Finally, I went into settings and manually turned off WiFi and was then able to get Alexa to bring up another music selection. I then tried making several phones calls through Alexa, as I had three bars of signal strength. Twice Alexa said "calling on this phone is not supported by Alexa", and once it said "I cannot find the contact for P_____ P _______ (correctly saying back to me the name I had given). I continued trying to place calls to various people throughout the drive as I moved through areas of different signal strength, but Alexa persisted in giving me those two messages.

So, today's results: one step forward this morning and two steps back this afternoon.

 

[RichMalden]

Unfortunately, my optimism was premature. I just did another test drive to see how things were behaving, and there were new problems plus the old ones returning.

When I got into the car, I decided to reposition the steering wheel a bit. When I hit the "Save to Profile" button, the car shut down. All the screens went black, the A/C stopped, and the car rebooted.

After the reboot, I called up music via Alexa and got what I requested. (I was on the WiFi signal in the garage.)

I backed out of the garage and brought up the Homelink icon to close the door. The door came down about two feet and then went back up, and I saw the overhead light was blinking, indicating that Homelink had somehow put the door opener into programming mode. Each time I tried the Homelink button, the door would come down the two feet and then go back up. I switched to the old remote I keep in the car, but the problem continued. Finally, I pulled around the driveway circle so that the car was not aimed at the door, and I the old remote succeeded in closing the door. (The Homelink function was the only thing the techs seemed to have been able to fix when they were here two days ago.) When I returned home and tried to open the door using Homelink, the door operated normally.

After this little drama, I drove off. When I moved beyond WiFi range of the house, the music stopped. I continued to drive, waiting for the system to switch to the LTE signal as it had done this morning. It never did. Finally, I went into settings and manually turned off WiFi and was then able to get Alexa to bring up another music selection. I then tried making several phones calls through Alexa, as I had three bars of signal strength. Twice Alexa said "calling on this phone is not supported by Alexa", and once it said "I cannot find the contact for P_____ P _______ (correctly saying back to me the name I had given). I continued trying to place calls to various people throughout the drive as I moved through areas of different signal strength, but Alexa persisted in giving me those two messages.

So, today's results: one step forward this morning and two steps back this afternoon.

Is there any benefit/reason to keeping the Wi-Fi on for now? Can you just turn it off so it doesn't have to transition? At least until they work out some of the bugs.

 

[idiot900]

Unfortunately, my optimism was premature. I just did another test drive to see how things were behaving, and there were new problems plus the old ones returning.

Your erratic, intermittent issues often accompanied by a system crash and reboot sound like a physical hardware issue. A bad connector, corrosion, crack in circuit board trace, corrupted memory module, etc. Hope Lucid will really start throwing parts at it soon.

 

[hmp10]

Is there any benefit/reason to keeping the Wi-Fi on for now? Can you just turn it off so it doesn't have to transition? At least until they work out some of the bugs.

We have a weak cell phone signal at our house even outside, and inside get no signal at all due to metallized window coatings. For mobile phone use, we have an outside antenna that amplifies and transmits the signal into the house, but it does not reach the garage. So there is no way for the car to receive OTA updates with the WiFi turned off. For one of the updates Lucid sent me, I had to drive the car several miles to a grocery store parking lot to get a signal stable enough for the car to use for the update.

I know Lucid recommends turning off WiFi to receive OTA updates, but I discussed this both with the delivery person and the mobile techs. They said Lucid recommended doing that to keep the car from randomly switching between signals during an update but, since we have no usable LTE signal in the garage, just keep the WiFi on.

 

[stealthpilot]

Unfortunately, my optimism was premature. I just did another test drive to see how things were behaving, and there were new problems plus the old ones returning.

When I got into the car, I decided to reposition the steering wheel a bit. When I hit the "Save to Profile" button, the car shut down. All the screens went black, the A/C stopped, and the car rebooted.

After the reboot, I called up music via Alexa and got what I requested. (I was on the WiFi signal in the garage.)

I backed out of the garage and brought up the Homelink icon to close the door. The door came down about two feet and then went back up, and I saw the overhead light was blinking, indicating that Homelink had somehow put the door opener into programming mode. Each time I tried the Homelink button, the door would come down the two feet and then go back up. I switched to the old remote I keep in the car, but the problem continued. Finally, I pulled around the driveway circle so that the car was not aimed at the door, and the old remote succeeded in closing the door. (The Homelink function was the only thing the techs seemed to have been able to fix when they were here two days ago.) When I returned home and tried to open the door using Homelink, the door operated normally.

After this little drama, I drove off. When I moved beyond WiFi range of the house, the music stopped. I continued to drive, waiting for the system to switch to the LTE signal as it had done this morning. It never did. Finally, I went into settings and manually turned off WiFi and was then able to get Alexa to bring up another music selection. I then tried making several phones calls through Alexa, as I had three bars of signal strength. Twice Alexa said "calling on this phone is not supported by Alexa", and once it said "I cannot find the contact for P_____ P _______ (correctly saying back to me the name I had given). I continued trying to place calls to various people throughout the drive as I moved through areas of different signal strength, but Alexa persisted in giving me those two messages.

So, today's results: one step forward this morning and two steps back this afternoon.

You may have the first instance of a car requiring a manufacturer buyback. Will be interesting to see how Lucid handles it.

 

[hmp10]

You may have the first instance of a car requiring a manufacturer buyback. Will be interesting to see how Lucid handles it.

This has been going for only 5 days thus far, so I'm not out of patience . . . yet.

These issues aside, I find everything else about the car amazing. As a driving machine, I'm already at the point that I would find any other EV an unsatisfactory substitute -- and we have a Tesla Model S Plaid in the garage.

 

[Paladin732]

This has been going for only 5 days thus far, so I'm not out of patience . . . yet.

These issues aside, I find everything else about the car amazing. As a driving machine, I'm already at the point that I would find any other EV an unsatisfactory substitute -- and we have a Tesla Model S Plaid in the garage.

My money is on a corrupted memory module.

I have full confidence this will be fixed for you within a week. I wouldn’t be surprised if they pull the core compute components in the car, swap them, and take them back to HQ to analyze in depth.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Unfortunately, my optimism was premature. I just did another test drive to see how things were behaving, and there were new problems plus the old ones returning.

When I got into the car, I decided to reposition the steering wheel a bit. When I hit the "Save to Profile" button, the car shut down. All the screens went black, the A/C stopped, and the car rebooted.

After the reboot, I called up music via Alexa and got what I requested. (I was on the WiFi signal in the garage.)

I backed out of the garage and brought up the Homelink icon to close the door. The door came down about two feet and then went back up, and I saw the overhead light was blinking, indicating that Homelink had somehow put the door opener into programming mode. Each time I tried the Homelink button, the door would come down the two feet and then go back up. I switched to the old remote I keep in the car, but the problem continued. Finally, I pulled around the driveway circle so that the car was not aimed at the door, and the old remote succeeded in closing the door. (The Homelink function was the only thing the techs seemed to have been able to fix when they were here two days ago.) When I returned home and tried to open the door using Homelink, the door operated normally.

After this little drama, I drove off. When I moved beyond WiFi range of the house, the music stopped. I continued to drive, waiting for the system to switch to the LTE signal as it had done this morning. It never did. Finally, I went into settings and manually turned off WiFi and was then able to get Alexa to bring up another music selection. I then tried making several phones calls through Alexa, as I had three bars of signal strength. Twice Alexa said "calling on this phone is not supported by Alexa", and once it said "I cannot find the contact for P_____ P _______ (correctly saying back to me the name I had given). I continued trying to place calls to various people throughout the drive as I moved through areas of different signal strength, but Alexa persisted in giving me those two messages.

So, today's results: one step forward this morning and two steps back this afternoon.

Sorry to hear this my friend.

1201
1201

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

My money is on a corrupted memory module.

I have full confidence this will be fixed for you within a week. I wouldn’t be surprised if they pull the core compute components in the car, swap them, and take them back to HQ to analyze in depth.

Yep, 1201

 

[borski]

Card is the key the same as any lock. Have the key you can copy. If you have the lock without the key you have to pick the lock. Are you saying the data is so easy to duplicate you can open any device using random data set?

That’s not quite accurate. You could potentially replay the direct binary stream (this is called a “replay attack”) but there are almost always mitigations for replay attacks because they are a very well-known attack vector. I would be *shocked* if Lucid didn’t mitigate for a replay attack. (And don’t worry, I’ll test this when my car ever gets delivered heh)

With a physical key (or passcode that doesn’t change with the time according to some shared secret), you’re right that a replay attack can happen (because people can copy keys or shouldersurf your passcode).

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I thought this was the advantage of the key card over fob and phone. The key card had to physically touch the car. All three key, phone and fob have encryption just want a ring since I too have a RFID wallet. I really don't want to use my phone either.