NACS Megathread

[SaratogaLefty]

Supposedly the new CyberTruck is 800 volt.

 

[Alex]

Supposedly the new CyberTruck is 800 volt.

Yes, has mentioned another place here and on the Internet. They have a switch on board that will either switch to two 400 V batteries in parallel or 800 V in series, so the cyber truck can charge at the current Tesla chargers. When they have there 1000 volt, V4 chargers available, it will be able to the charge on those at 800 V.

 

[Volund]

“
800-volt charging is not to be confused with 800-volt vehicle architectures—permitting motors, inverters, and other core components to run at higher voltage. That offers a different set of efficiency, performance, and weight-saving advantages, especially in tandem with high-voltage charging.

Although an 800-volt architecture helps maximize all those benefits, it isn’t necessary to reap what matters the most right now to a number of EV shoppers looking at road-trip viability—and how quickly they might get electrons into position in the battery pack's cells.”

These EVs have 800V charging: Why it’s better with or without Tesla’s NACS

The shift to Tesla’s Supercharging network might not benefit electric vehicles with 800-volt fast-charging capability. Yet.

www.greencarreports.com

Yes, it’s theoretically possible to get 350kW if Tesla eventually builds 1000V stations. Time will tell.

What's the big advantage of 12v vs the 48v the Tesla debuted with?
I know far less copper and wired, space savings and weight?

 

[borski]

What's the big advantage of 12v vs the 48v the Tesla debuted with?
I know far less copper and wired, space savings and weight?

Advantage of 12v is that there are infinitely many commodity parts that use 12v. It's been around for 70 years or so, so there are just tons of off-the-shelf cheap, commodity parts.

Advantage of 48v is still no need for regulations as it's still considered "low voltage," higher power throughput, and thinner gauge wires, meaning wiring harnesses can be lighter, smaller, more flexible, and so on.

This article goes into a ton of detail: https://www.electronicdesign.com/ma...eed-to-know-as-automakers-say-goodbye-to-12-v

 

[Adnillien]

Advantage of 12v is that there are infinitely many commodity parts that use 12v. It's been around for 70 years or so, so there are just tons of off-the-shelf cheap, commodity parts.

My guess on the CT is that there are only a few 48v components like steer by wire and rest are still at 12V run with a step down converter. Tesla does source a lot of there own parts so more may be 48V than I think.

 

[DeaneG]

In addition to reducing vehicle wiring harness size and weight, 48V operation also allows for reduced-volume electronics, connectors, etc. Everything in the low voltage system can be made smaller and lighter.

 

[DeaneG]

Despite the tongue-in-cheek title, some very positive things are coming for public NACS level 2 charging, including user-owned detachable cords as in the EU, and 277V operation, which allows operation from one leg of standard 480-V 3-phase power without need for a transformer:

SAE's NACS certification is ready, and it’ll fix every EV charging problem at once

SAE has finalized its NACS certification effort, and the new standard promises to fix a *lot* of the current issues with EV charging.

electrek.co

 

[Daniel2022AT]

In addition to reducing vehicle wiring harness size and weight, 48V operation also allows for reduced-volume electronics, connectors, etc. Everything in the low voltage system can be made smaller and lighter.

I am surprised the auto industry has not shifted broadly to 48v. It was a hot topic when I was in the industry back in the 1990’s. It has advantages all around.

 

[borski]

I am surprised the auto industry has not shifted broadly to 48v. It was a hot topic when I was in the industry back in the 1990’s. It has advantages all around.

There are a few vehicles that have - Lotus Eletre for example. It’s not exactly *difficult*; the issue is mainly that there are many orders of magnitude more 12v parts off the shelf than 48v parts. So it’s this cat and mouse game where the parts suppliers have to start supplying 48v parts, and the supply isn’t quite there yet as the vast vast majority still use 12v.

 

[DeaneG]

So it’s this cat and mouse game where the parts suppliers have to start supplying 48v parts, and the supply isn’t quite there yet as the vast vast majority still use 12v.

Chicken and egg?

 

[borski]

Chicken and egg?

That’s the one

Animal metaphors are confusing

 

[Ampere]

When I was covering automotive electronics/infotainment for the Chicago Tribune, ca. 1990, Ford engineers told me they really wanted to switch to 24 volts for weight and cost savings. The issue holding them back at that time was light bulbs. Bulbs with 24v filaments were too fragile for on-road use and those thinner filaments could not withstand the vibration. Of course, today, with LED lights that's irrelevant.
I even remember the original VWs and older US cars had 6 volt electrical systems.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

When I was covering automotive electronics/infotainment for the Chicago Tribune, ca. 1990, Ford engineers told me they really wanted to switch to 24 volts for weight and cost savings. The issue holding them back at that time was light bulbs. Bulbs with 24v filaments were too fragile for on-road use and those thinner filaments could not withstand the vibration. Of course, today, with LED lights that's irrelevant.
I even remember the original VWs and older US cars had 6 volt electrical systems.

I stand corrected. The hot topic in the 90’s was 24v. I think the light bulb issue could have been quite easily figured out if people really wanted to innovate and not just cut cost by 5 cents at a time.

 

[DeaneG]

A gradual rollout of Supercharger access is planned starting Feb 2024 with Ford and GM.

Tesla to open Supercharger network to Ford and GM in February

Tesla has confirmed the first two automakers to adopt their electric vehicle (EV) charging technology, Ford and General Motors, will gain access to the Supercharger network in February. Tesla had previously committed to opening up […]

driveteslacanada.ca

 

[Shuasha]

The Tesla people are going to love all the Bolt owners slow charging to 100%, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Volund]

The Tesla people are going to love all the Bolt owners slow charging to 100%, not that there's anything wrong with that.

When so many people wanted the switch to NACS I really wondered if Tesla owners would be happy with it lol, and in the end they only used that as an excuse to tell people not to buy cars with J1772
But never wanted us to be able to switch.
Now that we can, they're totally against the idea because of others hogging the charging lines

 

[xponents]

When so many people wanted the switch to NACS I really wondered if Tesla owners would be happy with it lol, and in the end they only used that as an excuse to tell people not to buy cars with J1772
But never wanted us to be able to switch.
Now that we can, they're totally against the idea because of others hogging the charging lines

Hilarious how tesla fans are like that..

 

[joec]

Hilarious how tesla fans are like that..

To be fair, that's not a Tesla fan thing. That's a 99% of the population thing. People are generally pretty selfish.

 

[Tâm]

Hilarious how tesla fans are like that..

I own both Tesla cars since 2012 and Lucid car since 2022 and I have no problem with people from any brand are willing to pay Tesla for charging at Tesla stations instead of Lucid stations.

It's like arguing Exxon vs Shell gas stations. Coke vs Pepsi It's pointless.

 

[Volund]

I own both Tesla cars since 2012 and Lucid car since 2022 and I have no problem with people from any brand are willing to pay Tesla for charging at Tesla stations instead of Lucid stations.

It's like arguing Exxon vs Shell gas stations. Coke vs Pepsi It's pointless.

I agree, but the big difference is how long people are there. Even here in Utah, most Tesla charging stations are ALWAYS full, because people use Model 3's as Uber and Lyft. Those guys are always supercharging.
Now add other non-brand vehicles to the mix and you'll have people hogging it non-stop.
I had to wait almost 20 minutes each time.