Lucid Bi-directional charging as a home power source

[blueice89]

Considering that additional hardware isn’t released this is borderline definition of vaporware

 

[thecodingart]

Considering that additional hardware isn’t released this is borderline definition of vaporware

What additional hardware? You can have a Ford bidirectional charger installed today with all of the appropriate hardware. For Lucid, the software is missing for bidirectional charging support.

 

[DeaneG]

...For Lucid, the software is missing for bidirectional charging support.

As well as the gateway or transfer switch hardware.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Considering that additional hardware isn’t released this is borderline definition of vaporware

I'm curious. Do you actually have a Lucid on order or are you just hanging out here???

 

[thecodingart]

As well as the gateway or transfer switch hardware.

Lucid doesn't need to provide the hardware for any of this. That hardware already exists in the market. You can have it installed by Sunrun today. It should work the instant Lucid releases a proper OTA supporting it on the vehicle side.

There's some branding on this, but it's just V2L on our (Ford's) end. Nothing special (I'm double checking with some of the product owners now).

Ford F-150 Lightning Home Integration System ┃Sunrun

For the first time, your vehicle can power your home in an outage. With the F-150® Lightning™, Home Integration System, and Charge Station Pro, your home and truck can sync seamlessly to send power where you need it, when you need it. Learn how.

www.sunrun.com

Also posted another solution above somewhere.

 

[HariK]

With software and an adapter to plug into CCS of our Lucids, we could have both 240V and 110V outlets ready to power a fridge and microwave and extension cord to power some lights right now. In the long run, I hope that there would be a standard by which any EV which supports bi-directional 240V would output 2 phase 110/240 and all we need would be a box installed between our sub-breaker panel and the main panel. That way if we have more than 1 bi-directional capable EV, we could manually connect the EV to the Swith Box/Disconnect and magic happens. We then go to a DC FC somewhere with the 2nd EV while the 1st EV is powering the house and keep it going.

Power to the house <===> Solar Disconnect on power outage <===> Main Breaker <===> Switch Box/Disconnect ===> Sub-breaker ====> distribution in the hosue.

 

[thecodingart]

With software and an adapter to plug into CCS of our Lucids, we could have both 240V and 110V outlets ready to power a fridge and microwave and extension cord to power some lights right now. In the long run, I hope that there would be a standard by which any EV which supports bi-directional 240V would output 2 phase 110/240 and all we need would be a box installed between our sub-breaker panel and the main panel. That way if we have more than 1 bi-directional capable EV, we could manually connect the EV to the Swith Box/Disconnect and magic happens. We then go to a DC FC somewhere with the 2nd EV while the 1st EV is powering the house and keep it going.

Power to the house <===> Solar Disconnect on power outage <===> Main Breaker <===> Switch Box/Disconnect ===> Sub-breaker ====> distribution in the hosue.

Actually, I think I presented this question a while back. I'm not sure having an adapter will actually work today. I believe I was told a software update was needed. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the fairly expensive adaptor (which seems to be discounted now) here https://hyundaishop.com/shop-by-model/2022-2023-hyundai-ioniq-5-v2l-connector-q006/.

If someone does own an Ionic and has this adaptor, I would love for them to test it out.

 

[HariK]

Actually, I think I presented this question a while back. I'm not sure having an adapter will actually work today. I believe I was told a software update was needed. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the fairly expensive adaptor (which seems to be discounted now) here https://hyundaishop.com/shop-by-model/2022-2023-hyundai-ioniq-5-v2l-connector-q006/.

If someone does own an Ionic and has this adaptor, I would love for them to test it out.

Yes. software has to enable the built-in inverter to output on the CCS port. I think Hyundai ioniq limits the output to just 110V and just under 2KW which barely powers 1 microwave.

 

[thecodingart]

Yes. software has to enable the built-in inverter to output on the CCS port. I think Hyundai ioniq limits the output to just 110V and just under 2KW which barely powers 1 microwave.

I'm simply just baffled people are calling this vapor ware. It's fairly new to the industry which is why I think people who haven't physically encountered it may not have confidence in it. Price wise (as a home back up system) it's a huge bang for the buck and enables sooooooo much more than just a vanilla home backup. I'm personally stocked about the technology. As vendors roll out their solutions with installers, there will be bumps. Overall though, Lucid supporting this feature to any confidence is a huge win. I'm hoping it just works.

Personally, I have 2 power walls and a solar array. I will be enabling V2L being in Florida to ensure I have all contingencies capability wise when the time is right and the software is in place. The bump V2L has been giving to home charge speeds is huge (forcing up to 80 versus 40/50 amp support), and the overall capability of having high power load outlets on the go is a huge perk. V2L is more than just home backup... I think the F150 Lightning has shown that beautifully with our pro power onboard feature.

 

[HariK]

I'm simply just baffled people are calling this vapor ware. It's fairly new to the industry which is why I think people who haven't physically encountered it may not have confidence in it. Price wise (as a home back up system) it's a huge bang for the buck and enables sooooooo much more than just a vanilla home backup. I'm personally stocked about the technology. As vendors roll out their solutions with installers, there will be bumps. Overall though, Lucid supporting this feature to any confidence is a huge win. I'm hoping it just works.

Personally, I have 2 power walls and a solar array. I will be enabling V2L being in Florida to ensure I have all contingencies capability wise when the time is right and the software is in place. The bump V2L has been giving to home charge speeds is huge (forcing up to 80 versus 40/50 amp support), and the overall capability of having high power load outlets on the go is a huge perk. V2L is more than just home backup... I think the F150 Lightning has shown that beautifully with our pro power onboard feature.

Those who call it vaporware do not know that the inverter is built-in in this car. Of course some software is needed to enable it and an adapter is needed to connect to the CCS port.

 

[tmilone103]

Those who call it vaporware do not know that the inverter is built-in in this car. Of course some software is needed to enable it and an adapter is needed to connect to the CCS port.

The missing part is the automatic transfer switch that connects to your electrical panel. You cant just feed your vehicles battery to the house through a circuit breaker in your panel.

 

[HariK]

The missing part is the automatic transfer switch that connects to your electrical panel. You cant just feed your vehicles battery to the house through a circuit breaker in your panel.

Yes see my post above. I called it "Switch Box/Disconnect"
Power to the house <===> Solar Disconnect on power outage <===> Main Breaker <===> Switch Box/Disconnect ===> Sub-breaker ====> distribution in the house.

 

[thecodingart]

The missing part is the automatic transfer switch that connects to your electrical panel. You cant just feed your vehicles battery to the house through a circuit breaker in your panel.

This guy is literally an all in one charger + switch for V2X

MaxiCharger DC V2X

COMING SOON MaxiCharger DC V2X The most advanced bi-directional home charger The MaxiCharger DC V2X stands for vehicle-to-everything, transforming your electric vehicle's battery into an amazing energy source. Though bi-directional power conversion this technology enables you to charge and...

autelenergy.us

Get this installed, and all you need is Lucid’s software update theoretically

 

[thecodingart]

Lucid doesn't need to provide the hardware for any of this. That hardware already exists in the market. You can have it installed by Sunrun today. It should work the instant Lucid releases a proper OTA supporting it on the vehicle side.

There's some branding on this, but it's just V2L on our (Ford's) end. Nothing special (I'm double checking with some of the product owners now).

Ford F-150 Lightning Home Integration System ┃Sunrun

For the first time, your vehicle can power your home in an outage. With the F-150® Lightning™, Home Integration System, and Charge Station Pro, your home and truck can sync seamlessly to send power where you need it, when you need it. Learn how.

www.sunrun.com

Also posted another solution above somewhere.

Ok, so worth reporting back here. I did check in with one of our product owners in this department and came away scolding myself a bit. I have to take quite a bit of what I noted in regards to the current state of things with V2X back to an extent.

ISO 15118-20:2022

Road vehicles — Vehicle to grid communication interface — Part 20: 2nd generation network layer and application layer requirements

www.iso.org

The above is the open CCS standard for V2X. This was literally just finalized in April of 2022, while the previous standard only supported CHADeMO. I was unaware that we ended up deploying our Bi-directional charger prior to the standard being approved. What this translates to is we are using a bit of a proprietary connection to enable our V2X functionality in the Lightning and anything else supporting this atm. There's a very strong likely hood that any car released pre-next year will also be using a proprietary connection if they advertise support. There are both hardware and software requirements, so it's very hard to note if Lucid will be compatible with everything in its current state, or if that will be limited to their charger only. There are newer companies releasing V2X using the standard (post April), but the tech is in such an early stage that it will be at least another year before we see mature products come to market.

 

[Negan1000]

This guy is literally an all in one charger + switch for V2X

MaxiCharger DC V2X

COMING SOON MaxiCharger DC V2X The most advanced bi-directional home charger The MaxiCharger DC V2X stands for vehicle-to-everything, transforming your electric vehicle's battery into an amazing energy source. Though bi-directional power conversion this technology enables you to charge and...

autelenergy.us

Get this installed, and all you need is Lucid’s software update theoretically

The Autel bidirectional charger is similar to the Lucid charger but at lower power. It is unclear if the intelligent switching is integrated or separate devices. The intelligent switching is what's needed for the Lucid charger.

 

[DJL]

The Autel bidirectional charger is similar to the Lucid charger but at lower power. It is unclear if the intelligent switching is integrated or separate devices. The intelligent switching is what's needed for the Lucid charger.

I just had my Lucid charger installed yesterday. It works great and my electrician said that it is the highest output charger he has installed yet! He also pointed out that the unit does not have a neutral, only a ground. He said it is as if a future addition would be coming that would address the lack of a neutral issue. Could this be the intelligent switching device you are referring too? Hmmmmm.

 

[DeaneG]

I just had my Lucid charger installed yesterday. It works great and my electrician said that it is the highest output charger he has installed yet! He also pointed out that the unit does not have a neutral, only a ground. He said it is as if a future addition would be coming that would address the lack of a neutral issue. Could this be the intelligent switching device you are referring too? Hmmmmm.

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I suppose that Lucid's Wunderbox could force each 120V leg of its 240V output to be equal in amplitude about its ground conductor, but its hard to imagine how this setup would manage unequal currents in one 120V leg vs the other, as there is no neutral from the LHCS to carry the remaining unbalanced load current back to the Wunderbox. This could be fixed with a 20kW 60Hz transformer between the LHCS and the transfer switch, but it would be a pretty big lump of silicon steel. If I was more motivated I'd read the J1772 V2X spec and find out what the plan is.

 

[DJL]

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I suppose that Lucid's Wunderbox could force each 120V leg of its 240V output to be equal in amplitude about its ground conductor, but its hard to imagine how this setup would manage unequal currents in one 120V leg vs the other, as there is no neutral from the LHCS to carry the remaining unbalanced load current back to the Wunderbox. This could be fixed with a 20kW 60Hz transformer between the LHCS and the transfer switch, but it would be a pretty big lump of silicon steel. If I was more motivated I'd read the J1772 V2X spec and find out what the plan is.

You are way over my head on this.....

 

[DeaneG]

You are way over my head on this.....

Fortunately for both of us, someone else has thought this through long ago.

 

[Shuasha]

Ok, so worth reporting back here. I did check in with one of our product owners in this department and came away scolding myself a bit. I have to take quite a bit of what I noted in regards to the current state of things with V2X back to an extent.

ISO 15118-20:2022

Road vehicles — Vehicle to grid communication interface — Part 20: 2nd generation network layer and application layer requirements

www.iso.org

The above is the open CCS standard for V2X. This was literally just finalized in April of 2022, while the previous standard only supported CHADeMO. I was unaware that we ended up deploying our Bi-directional charger prior to the standard being approved. What this translates to is we are using a bit of a proprietary connection to enable our V2X functionality in the Lightning and anything else supporting this atm. There's a very strong likely hood that any car released pre-next year will also be using a proprietary connection if they advertise support. There are both hardware and software requirements, so it's very hard to note if Lucid will be compatible with everything in its current state, or if that will be limited to their charger only. There are newer companies releasing V2X using the standard (post April), but the tech is in such an early stage that it will be at least another year before we see mature products come to market.

That standard was likely being worked on for years prior to ratification, so earlier manufacturers likely knew a long time ago what the hardware needed to look like and mostly what the software needed to contain. A simple software update would likely make them compatible with the standard.