Lucid Bi-directional charging as a home power source

[duc900]

I have been delaying a purchase of a home generator for a few years mostly because I just don't want to deal with the project. In addition, it would likely need to be gas powered and I was trying to avoid that. So my question is: if I only need back up support 1-2 days of duration per year with an occurrence rate of once every 2-3 yrs, is it practical to use the Lucid and the upcoming home charger wall unit as this energy source?

[Knowing, there would need to be some electrical work to provision for this scenario but that is likely true for a gas powered energy source as well.]

 

[Sandvinsd]

I would think so and I am looking into that as well. Instead of a generator, I have been looking at battery storage to connect as E-power (have solar from 2004, but the battery technology was not available at that time). The Lucid would be that battery .

However, I need more information on the bidirectional charger which I have not been able to get as of yet. My Nissan Leaf is also capable of bidirectional charging but I have not found an EVSE that will do the job yet. My hope is that the Lucid Home EVSE will do that job.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

This was discussed during the bonus podcast from InsideEvs. The had guest from Ford. There's a lot of unknowns with all the systems right now.

For us either Lucid or a Ford will be easier than dealing with our HOA for a generator. My concern is what happens when power is out when you are at work or away? Code doesn't allow you to put more than one transfer switch per circuit panel. So in essence we could put essentials on Ford Lightning, and everything else on the Lucid? However, that's way more expensive than any standby generator(s).

 

[pam4_AGT]

I would think so and I am looking into that as well. Instead of a generator, I have been looking at battery storage to connect as E-power (have solar from 2004, but the battery technology was not available at that time). The Lucid would be that battery .

However, I need more information on the bidirectional charger which I have not been able to get as of yet. My Nissan Leaf is also capable of bidirectional charging but I have not found an EVSE that will do the job yet. My hope is that the Lucid Home EVSE will do that job.

FYI... I have a 10kWh LG-chem battery that is a small version of what you want to do with the car. This system was turned on in 2019.

5kW System, 10kWh LG-Chem battery, Bay Area, CA | EnergySage

Case Study: Solar PV in action - Bay Area, CA - The system consists of 15 Panasonic panels with a total rating of 4.95kW DC paired with a 9.8KWh LG…

www.energysage.com

 

[MikeTz]

I don't recall the origin of this but it appears that this is a simple connection to the house via the J1772 charger port. Not sure if it can sync to the Grid with bidirectional logic switching or it is a dumb system where the owner has to flip a mechanical switch.

 

[Sandvinsd]

I don't recall the origin of this but it appears that this is a simple connection to the house via the J1772 charger port. Not sure if it can sync to the Grid with bidirectional logic switching or it is a dumb system where the owner has to flip a mechanical switch.

yeah. Like I said, I am looking for more of the technical details which have not been provided yet. Now the home charger can deliver 80amps@240 volts so that would be a pretty big load going back into the home.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

FYI... I have a 10kWh LG-chem battery that is a small version of what you want to do with the car. This system was turned on in 2019.

5kW System, 10kWh LG-Chem battery, Bay Area, CA | EnergySage

Case Study: Solar PV in action - Bay Area, CA - The system consists of 15 Panasonic panels with a total rating of 4.95kW DC paired with a 9.8KWh LG…

www.energysage.com

I have to read this in detail later but generators may be a thing of the past. We cannot do solar panels but a battery system may work. I don't know where we'd put battery that works vs a risk of hitting it with a car.

 

[duc900]

Looks like this is still a ways out. I have waited this long so I will hold out to see the details and then determine what is best after that.

Worst case is likely a batter back up solution.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Looks like this is still a ways out. I have waited this long so I will hold out to see the details and then determine what is best after that.

Worst case is likely a batter back up solution.

Having had a backup generator for years, one downside is once you lose power you are looking at 30-60 seconds for genset to get up to speed before power is restored. I hoping a battery system transfer would be in milliseconds. So I can get rid of all the UPS I have around the house.

 

[hmp10]

Florida hurricanes pose issues that do not make an EV feasible as an only power backup. We lost power for nine days after Hurricane Irma, and our Tesla was the only mobility we and the friends who were hunkered down with us had during those nine days. (We were the only ones who had a whole-house generator, which was also capable of keeping the Tesla charged.) They had gassed up their cars as much as they could, but gas stations ran out of gas three days before the hurricane hit. After the strike, only a few gas stations could run their pumps off generators, and those were all restricted to emergency and road maintenance vehicles.

In our case, at least, an EV is more important to provide mobility rather than home power during prolonged power outages.

 

[MikeTz]

Having had a backup generator for years, one downside is once you lose power you are looking at 30-60 seconds for genset to get up to speed before power is restored. I hoping a battery system transfer would be in milliseconds. So I can get rid of all the UPS I have around the house.

Same here ... My Generator is 16 years old and needs replacement. Unfortunately in South Florida, where A/C is a must, small 10kWh Battery systems don't cut it. Looking forward to Lucid's 100kWh bidirectional solution. I suspect Lucid will introduce the V2V first as it is the easiest to accomplish. Can also be a service Lucid can easily provide to stranded Lucid owners in need of a quick boost to make it to the next charging station.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Same here ... My Generator is 16 years old and needs replacement. Unfortunately in South Florida, where A/C is a must, small 10kWh Battery systems don't cut it. Looking forward to Lucid's 100kWh bidirectional solution. I suspect Lucid will introduce the V2V first as it is the easiest to accomplish. Can also be a service Lucid can easily provide to stranded Lucid owners in need of a quick boost to make it to the next charging station.

I am quite interested in V2V as my Leaf's battery is not what it used to be. If I need to give the Leaf a bit extra during the peak electric rates of the day (In San Diego, its up to 65 cents / kwH - ouch), I could pull some from the Lucid and then just refill both at night.

 

[MikeTz]

I am quite interested in V2V as my Leaf's battery is not what it used to be. If I need to give the Leaf a bit extra during the peak electric rates of the day (In San Diego, its up to 65 cents / kwH - ouch), I could pull some from the Lucid and then just refill both at night.

Ouch is right here are the rates for FPL

 

[Sandvinsd]

Ouch is right here are the rates for FPL

The best SDG&E rates for EVs are TOU5 which is what I have. The only cheap time is 12a-6a on weekdays and 12a-2p on weekends. Thank goodness for my solar which I installed 18 years ago. We, for the moment, get paid full retail rates for production. They are trying to change that in CA which will make solar very unattractive.

 

[pam4_AGT]

I have to read this in detail later but generators may be a thing of the past. We cannot do solar panels but a battery system may work. I don't know where we'd put battery that works vs a risk of hitting it with a car.

Same here ... My Generator is 16 years old and needs replacement. Unfortunately in South Florida, where A/C is a must, small 10kWh Battery systems don't cut it. Looking forward to Lucid's 100kWh bidirectional solution.

5kW System, 10kWh LG-Chem battery, Bay Area, CA | EnergySage

Case Study: Solar PV in action - Bay Area, CA - The system consists of 15 Panasonic panels with a total rating of 4.95kW DC paired with a 9.8KWh LG…

www.energysage.com

Completely agree that the 10kWh system I pointed to is simply not going to cut it in many parts of the country. But I would like to highlight a few things:
1. The LG-chem battery is pretty much a dumb battery that is controlled by the 7.6kW Solaredge inverter that is designed specifically for that purpose. Multiple batteries can be added in parallel. You can at least do three (30kWh) - maybe more, I really did not look into that in detail.
2. For a place like where I live (Bay Area, CA), the power grid is absolutely reliable - I can count the outages (over the last 8 years I've been living in this house), on my hands. The only reasons I even have the battery are:

• CA's SGIP rebate program for batteries (I got $3K back for the battery in 2019).
• NEM2 net metering policy imposes a penalty called Non-Bypassable Charges (NBC) on power drawn from the grid, i.e. the same unit power drawn from the grid is slightly more expensive than the identical unit power the system puts back into the grid. A battery minimizes this especially between 4pm-9pm (higher rates in that interval) when the solar panels are producing very little.
• A few circuits in the house (TV/router/cable-modem/fridge/lights) are connected to a separate "backup" panel that keeps the lights on when the grid is down. This next point may be confusing to people and needs a lot more explanation --> this does not mean that the battery cannot neutralize the power drawn from the grid when let's say the A/C kicks in.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

5kW System, 10kWh LG-Chem battery, Bay Area, CA | EnergySage

Case Study: Solar PV in action - Bay Area, CA - The system consists of 15 Panasonic panels with a total rating of 4.95kW DC paired with a 9.8KWh LG…

www.energysage.com

Completely agree that the 10kWh system I pointed to is simply not going to cut it in many parts of the country. But I would like to highlight a few things:
1. The LG-chem battery is pretty much a dumb battery that is controlled by the 7.6kW Solaredge inverter that is designed specifically for that purpose. Multiple batteries can be added in parallel. You can at least do three (30kWh) - maybe more, I really did not look into that in detail.
2. For a place like where I live (Bay Area, CA), the power grid is absolutely reliable - I can count the outages (over the last 8 years I've been living in this house), on my hands. The only reasons I even have the battery are:

• CA's SGIP rebate program for batteries (I got $3K back for the battery in 2019).
• NEM2 net metering policy imposes a penalty called Non-Bypassable Charges (NBC) on power drawn from the grid, i.e. the same unit power drawn from the grid is slightly more expensive than the identical unit power the system puts back into the grid. A battery minimizes this especially between 4pm-9pm (higher rates in that interval) when the solar panels are producing very little.
• A few circuits in the house (TV/router/cable-modem/fridge/lights) are connected to a separate "backup" panel that keeps the lights on when the grid is down. This next point may be confusing to people and needs a lot more explanation --> this does not mean that the battery cannot neutralize the power drawn from the grid when let's say the A/C kicks in.

Totally agree neighborhood we are moving to has buried powerlines. This subdivision has rarely seen an outage. We are planning on an induction range so cannot cook without power.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Totally agree neighborhood we are moving to has buried powerlines. This subdivision has rarely seen an outage. We are planning on an induction range so cannot cook without power.

The problem with buried powerlines is that if one needs more, one needs to trench out the lawn. That is my problem. I would love to add a large dedicated line for charging a BEV but the most my electrician was able to get was a 20 amp circuit (part of my 225 amp service). To go to 400 amps, which is what I wanted, I would have had to dig up my lawn.

In all other regards, buried powerlines are great.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

The problem with buried powerlines is that if one needs more, one needs to trench out the lawn. That is my problem. I would love to add a large dedicated line for charging a BEV but the most my electrician was able to get was a 20 amp circuit (part of my 225 amp service). To go to 400 amps, which is what I wanted, I would have had to dig up my lawn.

In all other regards, buried powerlines are great.

No lateral drilling or vibratory plow? Vibratory plow would only require two holes...

 

[Maverick]

No lateral drilling or vibratory plow? Vibratory plow would only require two holes...

A great post on Valentine's Day!

 

[Steveinarizona]

No lateral drilling or vibratory plow? Vibratory plow would only require two holes...

I could explore that but our ground is rather hard (caliche).