Lucid Air Touring or Tesla Model S LR

[MikeTz]

Wow really? You mean that even legacy automakers can't produce a perfect and problem free car?

aha yes!! Old or New, the introduction of new products is a risky business. How a company steps up to keep customers happy is the differentiator.

 

[copper]

As the owner of a Tesla Model S Plaid and Lucid Air Dream Edition, I largely agree with your pro/con analysis. However, there are a couple of things I would add.

Although the software in our Plaid is less glitchy than the software in the Model S P90D we had for six years, it is still not problem-free. Last evening we were leaving a friend's house, and the car would not open upon approach with the key fob. When I tried to press the key fob to open the car, the car went into Sentry mode and kept us locked out. Unfortunately, I had left my wallet in the car and could not get to my key card. Attempts to get into the car went on for several minutes until we went back inside to call Tesla service (which just gets you a voicemail with instructions to use the phone app to schedule service). We went back out to the car to try again and found the car had reset itself, and we could open the doors. Thank goodness we were at a friend's house instead of in a public parking lot in a rainstorm while all this was going on.



Tesla has now migrated some of the features that were once in Autopilot over into FSD, which is a $12,000 option. Autopilot in the current cars is nothing more than lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control. The car won't even change lanes by activating the turn signal in Autopilot.

When we bought our first Tesla in 2015, we paid $3,000 for the Autopilot option. Over the course of our ownership, one feature after another disappeared until we were left only with the lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control. We lost the lane change feature. The car would no longer navigate certain roads it originally navigated on Autopilot. Cruise control could no longer be set for more than 5 mph above the speed limit (which would get you rear-ended on some roads in Florida).

As many owners have discovered when they tried to trade or sell their Teslas with expensive ADAS options, they had not actually bought the option. They had licensed its use from Tesla, and Tesla retained the right to alter terms and remove features unilaterally.

Excellent points - I'm not a Tesla owner so you've got a better read on this.

Same here... Having lived with early model S (still own a plaid) and X I can tolerate software issues as long as they do not interfere with safety and/or prevent me from driving the car. Lucid nailed down the suspension on this car. However, they do need to show they have the ability to identify and fix any issues that arise within a reasonable amount of time especially on the first 500 cars they sent out to early adopters. Porsche USA bought hundreds of their early Taycan's from early customers who were not happy with the car. -

I just got behind the wheel of the LR again today. I was surprised again by the road noise and the jittery handling on rougher roads that a 21" tires equipped Air just glides over (even the Air on 21" wheels outperforms an S LR on 19"). Lucid really nailed the suspension - it is imho the best balanced one on the road at this point (the others that come close are the E63 wagon and the RS6 Avant).

I did not know that tidbit about the Taycan early iterations getting bought back though!

Coming from an Audi A6, I wanted to try something completely different but I'm thinking the S may be a bit too much for me due to the lack of transmission shifter, yoke awkwardness, turn signal buttons, no Android auto, lack of top down camera, too many functions being screen only, and ride quality being okay, but not as great as hoped. I assume I'll move to the Touring later this year due to these issues.

Again today I remembered why I absolutely despise the Yoke. The capacitive buttons are over-sensitive and badly laid out. The left arm rest is not well placed, resulting in my arm muscles always being activated to hold the wheel when driving, the Yoke does not extend far out enough to be in a relaxed position when driving (I'm 6'3", so on the tall side) and the steering weight makes me get hand cramps after even 15-20min driving due to a profoundly non-ergonomic design. (All this aside, some people love it - I'm just not one of them)

My main questions for current Lucid owners are:
...
5. Is Lucid still mentioning Android Auto/Car Play as a future addition?
6. How is the stereo?
...

CarPlay is coming, and I assume Android auto as well. The stereo is good but I have not gotten to test it thoroughly yet (I'm trying to find time with another forum member to test his DE out and use my measurement equipment on it).

 

[hmp10]

Again today I remembered why I absolutely despise the Yoke. The capacitive buttons are over-sensitive and badly laid out. The left arm rest is not well placed, resulting in my arm muscles always being activated to hold the wheel when driving, the Yoke does not extend far out enough to be in a relaxed position when driving (I'm 6'3", so on the tall side) and the steering weight makes me get hand cramps after even 15-20min driving due to a profoundly non-ergonomic design.

So true. So very true.

 

[hydbob]

Excellent points - I'm not a Tesla owner so you've got a better read on this.


I just got behind the wheel of the LR again today. I was surprised again by the road noise and the jittery handling on rougher roads that a 21" tires equipped Air just glides over (even the Air on 21" wheels outperforms an S LR on 19"). Lucid really nailed the suspension - it is imho the best balanced one on the road at this point (the others that come close are the E63 wagon and the RS6 Avant).

I did not know that tidbit about the Taycan early iterations getting bought back though!



Again today I remembered why I absolutely despise the Yoke. The capacitive buttons are over-sensitive and badly laid out. The left arm rest is not well placed, resulting in my arm muscles always being activated to hold the wheel when driving, the Yoke does not extend far out enough to be in a relaxed position when driving (I'm 6'3", so on the tall side) and the steering weight makes me get hand cramps after even 15-20min driving due to a profoundly non-ergonomic design. (All this aside, some people love it - I'm just not one of them)


CarPlay is coming, and I assume Android auto as well. The stereo is good but I have not gotten to test it thoroughly yet (I'm trying to find time with another forum member to test his DE out and use my measurement equipment on it).

I thought borski was getting together with someone

 

[copper]

I thought borski was getting together with someone

Yep, we're trying to get a time on the books but this week was shot to hell for me until yesterday. Hopefully next week.

 

[borski]

Yep, we're trying to get a time on the books but this week was shot to hell for me until yesterday. Hopefully next week.

I’ll be back after 2/25 so we will find a time! I’ll DM you.

Currently putting lots of miles on the car to break it in

 

[Lucken]

delete

 

[Lucken]

Wow really? You mean that even legacy automakers can't produce a perfect and problem free car?

Of course Porsche also had the goodwill and resources to buy hundreds of these cars back from customers. So there’s that.

 

[Disco Marathon]

Hey folks. I’m in the same boat as many of you. My DD and only car is a 2020 MS LR. I love the storage capacity and it is fun to drive. But…range is not nearly as advertised. With car fully packed for vacation and the whole family in it, we get about 300miles. The cabin is noisy. And the suspension is so so rough even in comfort mode. I had the 21” for a few weeks but was blowing tires every other week because both the surface roads and highways in Philly are poorly maintained. Even on the 19” in comfort mode it is a harsh ride.

From reading this thread it seems like those with access to both cars, prefer the Air.

But what about that huge difference in storage capacity, and lack of roof rack/trailer hitch?

Right now I’m able to pack the MS to the gills, throw 4 bikes on the back, and take the entire family down the shore for a week, with ease.

*Note that my gripe about range was not when using a bike rack. Obv the bike rack creates a ton of drag and range naturally suffers. Without the bike rack, we recently couldn’t get from Philly to Stratton VT (312) miles, on a full charge.

 

[hydbob]

Hey folks. I’m in the same boat as many of you. My DD and only car is a 2020 MS LR. I love the storage capacity and it is fun to drive. But…range is not nearly as advertised. With car fully packed for vacation and the whole family in it, we get about 300miles. The cabin is noisy. And the suspension is so so rough even in comfort mode. I had the 21” for a few weeks but was blowing tires every other week because both the surface roads and highways in Philly are poorly maintained. Even on the 19” in comfort mode it is a harsh ride.

From reading this thread it seems like those with access to both cars, prefer the Air.

But what about that huge difference in storage capacity, and lack of roof rack/trailer hitch?

Right now I’m able to pack the MS to the gills, throw 4 bikes on the back, and take the entire family down the shore for a week, with ease.

*Note that my gripe about range was not when using a bike rack. Obv the bike rack creates a ton of drag and range naturally suffers. Without the bike rack, we recently couldn’t get from Philly to Stratton VT (312) miles, on a full charge.

I think you'll find out the Air is not lacking in storage as much as other people are making it it to be. You won't be able to fit as large of items you are used to but with the frunk and bottom storage of the trunk you can fit quite a bit. I had packed for 3 adults and 3 kids for a week long trip with snow gear plus a 50 gallon cooler into the Air and was still able to get 360 miles on a full charge driving half the distance through a downpour, heater on, wipers going, 2 adults, 3 car seats and 3 kids.

 

[copper]

I think you'll find out the Air is not lacking in storage as much as other people are making it it to be. You won't be able to fit as large of items you are used to but with the frunk and bottom storage of the trunk you can fit quite a bit. I had packed for 3 adults and 3 kids for a week long trip with snow gear plus a 50 gallon cooler into the Air and was still able to get 360 miles on a full charge driving half the distance through a downpour, heater on, wipers going, 2 adults, 3 car seats and 3 kids.

Agreed about cargo space. That frunk is a beast - I’m betting I can get a full Trader Joe’s run in there without blinking.

The trunk seems to mess with people‘s brains because they interpret the wide but not that long trunk to be smaller when it is actually quite substantial. The main knock against it is the body lip being low (the rear window extends out over the trunk a fair distance). @hydbob has that been easy to deal with so far?

 

[borski]

Agreed about cargo space. That frunk is a beast - I’m betting I can get a full Trader Joe’s run in there without blinking.

The trunk seems to mess with people‘s brains because they interpret the wide but not that long trunk to be smaller when it is actually quite substantial. The main knock against it is the body lip being low (the rear window extends out over the trunk a fair distance). @hydbob has that been easy to deal with so far?

I went out in a road trip today and the trunk fit two checked luggage bags, an entire cabinet of board games (on the lower level, and could easily have fit another carryon, duffel, and a few backpacks.

The frunk had my backpack and the camera bag on the lower level and the top level was entirely empty.

There is NO shortage of space in this car haha

 

[CraZ8]

I think you'll find out the Air is not lacking in storage as much as other people are making it it to be. You won't be able to fit as large of items you are used to but with the frunk and bottom storage of the trunk you can fit quite a bit. I had packed for 3 adults and 3 kids for a week long trip with snow gear plus a 50 gallon cooler into the Air and was still able to get 360 miles on a full charge driving half the distance through a downpour, heater on, wipers going, 2 adults, 3 car seats and 3 kids.

You had six humans in that beast? The back bench I know is very wide but still that’s quite a feat. In college I had a restored 54 chevy that I regularly put 7 skinny collage kids in with ease but the best packing I did was to manage to get 7 in a VW bug for a short trip( one small guy in the area behind the rear seat)
I agree with copper in the post above. The trunk in the air is incredibly spacious just a little awkward with the wide and low opening.

 

[RichMalden]

Also, keep in mind there are roof rail attachment points. They've shown renderings of an aerodynamic shallow roof cargo carrier similar to a Thule. No idea when it'll be available or if there will be a bike rack option.

 

[Ormond]

I’m supposed to take delivery this week of a new Model S, but may cancel. I’d prefer a car with a decent ride. I haven’t ordered an Air yet. To be honest, there both probably a bit low for me but I haven’t seen the Air yet.

 

[hydbob]

You had six humans in that beast? The back bench I know is very wide but still that’s quite a feat. In college I had a restored 54 chevy that I regularly put 7 skinny collage kids in with ease but the best packing I did was to manage to get 7 in a VW bug for a short trip( one small guy in the area behind the rear seat)
I agree with copper in the post above. The trunk in the air is incredibly spacious just a little awkward with the wide and low opening.

No just 5, I was following in the minivan which was holding a sectional lol

 

[hmp10]

But what about that huge difference in storage capacity, and lack of roof rack/trailer hitch?

"Huge" is a relative term, I suppose. Cargo volumes are hard to track down for a car, as they vary from source to source and even within a manufacturer's own website. Checking multiple sources, the Model S seems to have about 5 cubic feet more storage capacity in its trunk and frunk combined than the Air. Depending on configuration of the storage areas, that difference can make real or largely insignificant differences in what you can actually pack into the car.

However, both cars allow the rear setbacks to lower and, given Lucid's much greater cabin length and interior volume, that probably equalizes the storage capacity when the rear seat can be used for storage as well as the trunk and frunk.

And, as RichMallon pointed out, the Lucid Air does have mounting points for a roof carrier.

One thing to watch out for with both cars, though, is total payload capacity. The Air's is 850 pounds. That can easily be exceeded with five passengers and every storage space crammed with cargo. These are both very heavy cars to start with (the Air moreso), and loading them to the gills can really push the limits of tire, suspension, and brake capabilities. These cars are engineered as passenger sedans, not freight trucks.

 

[Bbq9]

Wow really? You mean that even legacy automakers can't produce a perfect and problem free car?

I know right … I never realized /s

J.D. Power US Vehicle Dependability Study: 187 Problems Per 100 BMWs

J.D. Power's Vehicle Dependability Study study puts MINI on 11th or 4 places ahead of BMW, which was only slightly better than the average.

www.bmwblog.com

 

[Dortreo]

One thing to watch out for with both cars, though, is total payload capacity. The Air's is 850 pounds. That can easily be exceeded with five passengers and every storage space crammed with cargo.

So the Air isn’t rated for 5 180 lb adults? Or 4 linebackers?

 

[Lucken]

I know right … I never realized /s

J.D. Power US Vehicle Dependability Study: 187 Problems Per 100 BMWs

J.D. Power's Vehicle Dependability Study study puts MINI on 11th or 4 places ahead of BMW, which was only slightly better than the average.

www.bmwblog.com

Many of these 'problems' as CR has demonstrated over the years, is due to the complexity of the infotainment systems. So many 'issues' are simply a lack of understanding of how to operate these systems as opposed to failures in the systems. Of course that's not to say there aren't failures, but the numbers may not be what they appear to be.

Another way to look at this, as in the case of BMW for example, is it really that bad to have 1.87 problems per vehicle? That's less than 2 issues per vehicle on average. Anyone want to compare that to what we read here? I think it's just a question of perspective.