Lucid Air Touring or Tesla Model S LR

[Yugi]

Guys, I have a reservation for Lucid Air Touring. I need a car by end of year and I am wondering should I wait for Lucid or go with Tesla Model S Long range? I understand Lucid is taking longer to ram up production and at this rate is there any chance I would get car by EOD. My reservation date is Jan 2022. Model S seems to have 6 months wait which is not bad.

 

[Bill B]

I think it's hard to say at this point!

 

[Adnillien]

We should know more on the projected ramp after the earnings call.

 

[hydbob]

Keep your reservation for both and check back in 4 months

 

[mnewber1]

With GT beginning production soon (or last week, or this week depending which DA you listen to) and a little over 40% of reservations being GTs, it's hard to tell how long they'll be producing GTs before starting Tourings. I am in the same boat as you (Jan 2022 reservation for Touring).

 

[copper]

Guys, I have a reservation for Lucid Air Touring. I need a car by end of year and I am wondering should I wait for Lucid or go with Tesla Model S Long range? I understand Lucid is taking longer to ram up production and at this rate is there any chance I would get car by EOD. My reservation date is Jan 2022. Model S seems to have 6 months wait which is not bad.

I'm in almost the same boat (confirmed AGT mid-Dec) and have a Model S LR on order too because I need a car by June. I've tested both pretty extensively as I'm an utter car nerd. Air Touring all the way.

Why get the Air:

1. Vastly better interior and build quality. Even with the current parts gremlins, it still consistently is better put together than the Model S. The seats are excellent the headroom is great (except the A pillar but that isn't a big issue) rear legroom is excellent, the list goes on. You could easily knock down 500mi in one without a single ache (check Tom's range test - he's had two back surgeries and loved the Air seats, even without using the massage). Tesla consistently has build issues on the S such as misaligned gaps, orange peel paint, loose interior panels. Early models of any car have issues as we've seen on this forum, but still having them after a decade of production? Tesla is really underperforming here.
2. It is a true driver's car. If you value the experience of driving and want a car that makes you feel like a hero, the Air is your cup of tea. Vs. the Taycan 4S, EQS 580 and Model S, the air has the best all-round suspension of them all (yes, even the Taycan). It takes rough roads without getting upset and glides when you want, or will pivot in a turn very predictably when you want some fun. I have thrashed each of these models and came away loving the Air over all of them except the Taycan. The reason the Taycan lost the battle is the crazily cramped interior that is a dealbreaker for me.
3. The range. I've several friends and family members with the current Model S LR. They all have griped that the usable range is nowhere near what is quoted (<300mi at highway speeds on the 19" wheels). Now that Tom M has done a test of the DE-R we have a pretty solid range basis - even with aggressive projections in ABRP I still get most road trips on a single or no charge. (Note: there's still more real world testing to be done though with owners, so while we have good data it isn't gospel - yet).

Why not the Air:

1. Software. The Model S has Tesla's famous software and frankly they're the best in the business at it. This has drawbacks as they can mess with it in bad ways (v10 vs. v11 for example) but it is leagues above every other car in the business.
2. Superchargers. The supercharger network is vastly superior to every other one out there, so if you absolutely must have the best chargers for lots of road trips, you're going to be better off with the Tesla - until they open superchargers to other cars, which is coming. (FYI to all: I have it on good authority this will be nationally legislated in Q3/Q4 of this year as part of the spending package)
3. Autopilot. I don't see any carmaker coming close to Tesla here for a long time. This is a whole different kettle of fish, but in short Tesla has hundreds (thousands?) of engineers dedicated to this one feature, vs. every other carmaker playing catch up. The Dream Drive will certainly be great once it is released, but if you want a bleeding-edge autopilot then Tesla is your game.

In the end you have to decide which of these matter most to you. I think that if you value the driving experience, the fit and finish, and don't need to constantly run 500mi+ road trips then the Air will be your thing.

Like @hydbob said, keep both reservations and see which arrives first.

 

[Sandvinsd]

With GT beginning production soon (or last week, or this week depending which DA you listen to) and a little over 40% of reservations being GTs, it's hard to tell how long they'll be producing GTs before starting Tourings. I am in the same boat as you (Jan 2022 reservation for Touring).

There is no way that 40% of the reservations are AGTs. The reported reservation numbers and average selling price make that impossible. On another thread someone in the second batch of confirmations said his DA told him that the car was in production. That is more evidence that the number of AGTs is not very high. The vast majority of reservations are Air Pure’s. However, if someone reserved a Touring last month along with a Tesla S, the Tesla will almost assuredly be delivered first. There is no way a touring with a late reservation date will be delivered by June.

 

[blktmy]

FWIW We received my wife's Model S LR Oct 2021 and have an Air Touring on order since 10/27/21. The plan is to sell the S once the Air arrives but are currently considering upgrading to an AGT. My opinion on the S is quite harsh but it is what it is. Let me also say my DD is a Model Y performance and I absolutely love it so don't think i'm a Tesla hater. We have had 4 Teslas in the last few years and the 2022 S LR is by far my least favorite. I am very much a car guy and know my cars and will list the few things I feel Tesla dropped the ball on with the new S. Steering wheel is terrible even after getting used to it. I feel the Yoke should have been an option. I also hate the turn signal buttons which i've gotten used to. The horn button is terrible and I actually feel its a safety concern. No way can one hit it in an instant in case of an emergency. Another thing for me and this has been the case in both my Model 3 and Y is the suspension. These cars drive like crap out of the box. On both my 3 and Y i replaced the entire suspension with a coil over kit and in both vehicles the difference was night and day and if the S was mine and I decided to keep it the suspension would get replaced. The above mentioned are the worst of the list for me but I should add the quality of the Tesla is in par with its suspension IMO. Our new S arrived with about a half a dozen quality issues which were later taken care of with a service appointment that took over a month to get. I should add that my wife likes her car and only has a problem with a few of my concerns.
I had the chance to drive one of the very first few Air Dreams and was very impressed. My concern is the Touring won't be up to par with the Dream and that would be a real bummer but time will tell and i'll report back when that happens.

 

[hydbob]

FWIW We received my wife's Model S LR Oct 2021 and have an Air Touring on order since 10/27/21. The plan is to sell the S once the Air arrives but are currently considering upgrading to an AGT. My opinion on the S is quite harsh but it is what it is. Let me also say my DD is a Model Y performance and I absolutely love it so don't think i'm a Tesla hater. We have had 4 Teslas in the last few years and the 2022 S LR is by far my least favorite. I am very much a car guy and know my cars and will list the few things I feel Tesla dropped the ball on with the new S. Steering wheel is terrible even after getting used to it. I feel the Yoke should have been an option. I also hate the turn signal buttons which i've gotten used to. The horn button is terrible and I actually feel its a safety concern. No way can one hit it in an instant in case of an emergency. Another thing for me and this has been the case in both my Model 3 and Y is the suspension. These cars drive like crap out of the box. On both my 3 and Y i replaced the entire suspension with a coil over kit and in both vehicles the difference was night and day and if the S was mine and I decided to keep it the suspension would get replaced. The above mentioned are the worst of the list for me but I should add the quality of the Tesla is in par with its suspension IMO. Our new S arrived with about a half a dozen quality issues which were later taken care of with a service appointment that took over a month to get. I should add that my wife likes her car and only has a problem with a few of my concerns.
I had the chance to drive one of the very first few Air Dreams and was very impressed. My concern is the Touring won't be up to par with the Dream and that would be a real bummer but time will tell and i'll report back when that happens.

Honest question, what are your expectations going from driving a Dream to a Touring?

 

[blktmy]

I really don't know what to expect. I'd be happy if the Touring is as quiet and smooth as the Dream. I realize the Touring won't have some of the features as the Dream but that's to be expected with a price difference of $60k. I plan to drive a GT soon and hopefully it helps in making the final decision.

 

[CraZ8]

If you don’t mind the drop in hp from 800 to 680 and 100 miles less range there really is not that much difference between an optioned up touring and a GT. You are still getting all the creature comforts and even more foot room in the rear for the approx same price ( and range) as a long range S. You just have to wait another 6 months. To be honest the Dream is another 30 k in large part for the exclusivity, the interior may be a little different but is not any better.

 

[hmp10]

Why not the Air:

1. Software. The Model S has Tesla's famous software and frankly they're the best in the business at it. This has drawbacks as they can mess with it in bad ways (v10 vs. v11 for example) but it is leagues above every other car in the business.

As the owner of a Tesla Model S Plaid and Lucid Air Dream Edition, I largely agree with your pro/con analysis. However, there are a couple of things I would add.

Although the software in our Plaid is less glitchy than the software in the Model S P90D we had for six years, it is still not problem-free. Last evening we were leaving a friend's house, and the car would not open upon approach with the key fob. When I tried to press the key fob to open the car, the car went into Sentry mode and kept us locked out. Unfortunately, I had left my wallet in the car and could not get to my key card. Attempts to get into the car went on for several minutes until we went back inside to call Tesla service (which just gets you a voicemail with instructions to use the phone app to schedule service). We went back out to the car to try again and found the car had reset itself, and we could open the doors. Thank goodness we were at a friend's house instead of in a public parking lot in a rainstorm while all this was going on.

1. Autopilot. I don't see any carmaker coming close to Tesla here for a long time. This is a whole different kettle of fish, but in short Tesla has hundreds (thousands?) of engineers dedicated to this one feature, vs. every other carmaker playing catch up. The Dream Drive will certainly be great once it is released, but if you want a bleeding-edge autopilot then Tesla is your game.

Tesla has now migrated some of the features that were once in Autopilot over into FSD, which is a $12,000 option. Autopilot in the current cars is nothing more than lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control. The car won't even change lanes by activating the turn signal in Autopilot.

When we bought our first Tesla in 2015, we paid $3,000 for the Autopilot option. Over the course of our ownership, one feature after another disappeared until we were left only with the lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control. We lost the lane change feature. The car would no longer navigate certain roads it originally navigated on Autopilot. Cruise control could no longer be set for more than 5 mph above the speed limit (which would get you rear-ended on some roads in Florida).

As many owners have discovered when they tried to trade or sell their Teslas with expensive ADAS options, they had not actually bought the option. They had licensed its use from Tesla, and Tesla retained the right to alter terms and remove features unilaterally.

 

[gavram]

I just received my Model S long range a couple weeks ago and also have a Lucid Touring on order.

Coming from an Audi A6, I wanted to try something completely different but I'm thinking the S may be a bit too much for me due to the lack of transmission shifter, yoke awkwardness, turn signal buttons, no Android auto, lack of top down camera, too many functions being screen only, and ride quality being okay, but not as great as hoped. I assume I'll move to the Touring later this year due to these issues.

That being said, there's a lot I like as well including the auto cruise control intelligence (basic, not paid version), great lane centering for both local roads & highway that doesn't require wheel torque if resting hand on wheel, stereo quality, and easy access dual wireless phone chargers.

My main questions for current Lucid owners are:
1. How is the auto cruise control "smoothness"?
2. How well does lane centering work? (If available yet).
3. Is periodic wheel torque required for centering?
4. Is lane centering available for local roads? (Or planned)
5. Is Lucid still mentioning Android Auto/Car Play as a future addition?
6. How is the stereo?
7. How accessible is your phone when on wireless charging?
8. How impactful are the software bugs currently due to it being a gen 1?

 

[hydbob]

1) amazing
2,3,4) not available yet
5) still coming supposedly
6) amazing again
7) not very at all
8) I personally am not experiencing that many bugs compared to others. It's already leaps and bounds better than upon releasee.

 

[borski]

I just received my Model S long range a couple weeks ago and also have a Lucid Touring on order.

Coming from an Audi A6, I wanted to try something completely different but I'm thinking the S may be a bit too much for me due to the lack of transmission shifter, yoke awkwardness, turn signal buttons, no Android auto, lack of top down camera, too many functions being screen only, and ride quality being okay, but not as great as hoped. I assume I'll move to the Touring later this year due to these issues.

That being said, there's a lot I like as well including the auto cruise control intelligence (basic, not paid version), great lane centering for both local roads & highway that doesn't require wheel torque if resting hand on wheel, stereo quality, and easy access dual wireless phone chargers.

My main questions for current Lucid owners are:
1. How is the auto cruise control "smoothness"?
2. How well does lane centering work? (If available yet).
3. Is periodic wheel torque required for centering?
4. Is lane centering available for local roads? (Or planned)
5. Is Lucid still mentioning Android Auto/Car Play as a future addition?
6. How is the stereo?
7. How accessible is your phone when on wireless charging?
8. How impactful are the software bugs currently due to it being a gen 1?

1. Fantastic. It’s really honestly very good.
2. Doesn’t exist yet.
3. N/A. Lane *departure* warning will try to nudge you back in if you drift a little, but that’s an option and not centering. You don’t have to put pressure on the wheel; I just rest my hand on it.
4. Not yet. First up is Highway assist and then *eventually* city. ACC works at anything >20mph tho, and it actually worked well in city driving imho.
5. Yes. It’s coming.
6. This is the most insane sound system I’ve ever used in a car. The only drawback is lack of USB support and/or downloading tracks for highest fidelity. But everything sounds incredible.
7. Not. I mean, you can grab it out, but you can’t use it and have it charge simultaneously. It’s covered.
8. Meh. There’re annoyances, not major issues - to me. Others, like @hmp10, have been really unlucky but my experience has been just occasional annoyances.

The car itself is really incredible and drives better than I could have hoped. It’s got spectacular handling and suspension.

 

[MikeTz]

If you don’t mind the drop in hp from 800 to 680 and 100 miles less range there really is not that much difference between an optioned up touring and a GT. You are still getting all the creature comforts and even more foot room in the rear for the approx same price ( and range) as a long range S. You just have to wait another 6 months. To be honest the Dream is another 30 k in large part for the exclusivity, the interior may be a little different but is not any better.

I have a DE #180. Put down a deposit on a Pure last week. If the pure has the driving dynamics of the DE it would be the bargain of the century.

 

[hmp10]

The car itself is really incredible and drives better than I could have hoped. It’s got spectacular handling and suspension.

As frustrated as I am with the several problems I've had with the car, I still wholeheartedly agree with this. And I've not had a single passenger get into the car without their being openly wowed by its style, cabin airiness, seating comfort and room, sound system, and acceleration shock factor.

 

[gavram]

As frustrated as I am with the several problems I've had with the car, I still wholeheartedly agree with this. And I've not had a single passenger get into the car without their being openly wowed by its style, cabin airiness, seating comfort and room, sound system, and acceleration shock factor.

Thanks for the feedback @borski , @hydbob , & @hmp10 . It sounds like the Lucid is the better overall ownership experience & I look forward to getting one in the garage.

 

[MikeTz]

As frustrated as I am with the several problems I've had with the car, I still wholeheartedly agree with this. And I've not had a single passenger get into the car without their being openly wowed by its style, cabin airiness, seating comfort and room, sound system, and acceleration shock factor.

Same here... Having lived with early model S (still own a plaid) and X I can tolerate software issues as long as they do not interfere with safety and/or prevent me from driving the car. Lucid nailed down the suspension on this car. However, they do need to show they have the ability to identify and fix any issues that arise within a reasonable amount of time especially on the first 500 cars they sent out to early adopters. Porsche USA bought hundreds of their early Taycan's from early customers who were not happy with the car. -

 

[hydbob]

Same here... Having lived with early model S (still own a plaid) and X I can tolerate software issues as long as they do not interfere with safety and/or prevent me from driving the car. Lucid nailed down the suspension on this car. However, they do need to show they have the ability to identify and fix any issues that arise within a reasonable amount of time especially on the first 500 cars they sent out to early adopters. Porsche USA bought hundreds of their early Taycan's from early customers who were not happy with the car. -

Wow really? You mean that even legacy automakers can't produce a perfect and problem free car?