Lucid Air or BMW i5

[xponents]

I’m a huge BMW fan. Currently the Lucid is a better EV. Not close IMO. Better design, better performance, better looking.

I’m looking forward to

View attachment 19484

The Vision Neue Klasse is absolutely BEAUTIFUL, including the SUV. Proportions spot on, kidney grill is a masterpiece, and it looks absolutely planted. Even the SUV looks great…

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Totally disagree. I own both an i4 and a Lucid Pure AWD. I have no axe to grind and honestly love both cars.

There is nothing wrong with repurposing a proven ICE platform for an EV if you’re OK with somewhat cramped rear seating. Not everyone needs a cavernous rear seat. Some even prefer driving a smaller car for its inherent benefits. My RWD i4 has a range of over 300 miles, significantly outperforming EPA estimates as most German cars do. Efficiency of over 4mi/kWh is not difficult at all in nice weather. The car handles beautifully, as most reviews will attest to. In fact the handling is better than my Lucid, partly because of its excellent chassis dynamics (riding on that proven, legacy ICE platform) and partly because it’s smaller and more nimble than the Lucid.

Quality? I can only hope my Lucid measures up to the tank-like quality of my i4. Nearly 2 years of ownership and over 17,000 miles with not one single issue. Hardware & software are terrific. Not a single squeak, creak or groan nor any issues with software. You couldn’t ask for a better ownership experience.

If legacy ICE platforms bother you in an EV, the below is upcoming for BMW in 2025. So there does seem to be a ‘cohesive vision’ at BMW. I think for a legacy automaker, their approach has made all the sense in the world. Start off with proven ICE designs that have stood the test of time, learn from that, and move on to dedicated EV platforms.

By 2025 my wife and I may be looking to replace her i4 and these new concept BMW EVs (which have already garnered some excellent reviews for design language), along with the future midsize Lucid, are top contenders at this point. Fun times!

https://www.bmwusa.com/concept-vehicles/vision-neue-klasse.html

There is in fact something wrong with merely repurposing an ICE platform for an EV. It is suboptimal. It saves $3-4 billion of capital investment but it results in compromises. Wonderful if you are satisfied with those compromises. Enjoy your car.

Interesting that Car and Driver’s top pick for the category is the Hyundai Iconiq 6. Not only beating the i4 but doing so for $15,000 lower base price MSRP. Transaction price differential is probably over $20,000.

BMW in times past was not about compromises. That is why their EV vision is flawed. It is a cheaper way to get 80%, maybe 85% of the result. That investment-to-value, risk-reward positioning was the strategy of others but never BMW. Until now.

Plus, why the freakishly large grill on an EV? It looks clownish.

Happy driving.

 

[terrycs]

I was actually patiently waiting for Audi to release their A6 e-Tron but the delays never ended so I shifted over to BMW and test drove i5 M60 before the Air. It drove pretty much as I expected as a drivers car by BMW.

Four things made me hold off making the purchase. 1) I usually keep my cars for at least 10 years so they need to last. 2) Range ... total range is 256 (at 100% SOC). That makes it about 205 at 80% SOC which is where one wants to remain for max battery life. This is significantly less than the max range of my ICE powered Lexus. This of course doesn't matter to those planning to lease. 3) Packaging and engineering ... Looking at the mess in the M60's frunk was a real turn-off with all the obvious short cuts placing everything. They could have easily provided frunk space if they wanted to. Since they saved so much money on each vehicle with this combo platform approach, I kind of expected them to pass some of the savings onto the customer? 4) The "drive train" in the Air is simply superior to the M60's.

 

[JKL]

Is anyone else holding off on a Lucid because of upcoming EVs? I‘m speaking specifically of the BMW i5 M60, which has a lower range but the benefit of being from a legacy manufacturer with a solid service network, as well as a lower price? The early reviews also look incredibly promising (particularly the new self driving system). Curious to hear other’s thoughts.

"Am I an early adaptor?", is the question you should ask yourself. I drive my GT (Zenith Red, Santa Cruz) for 25.000 kilometres since last summer in the Netherlands with (only) one Lucid Studio. Visited the studio only once for my 20k km service. And for some promotional events. The comfort, the driving, the range cannot be found together in one other EV for as far as I'm asked.

 

[Lucken]

There is in fact something wrong with merely repurposing an ICE platform for an EV. It is suboptimal. It saves $3-4 billion of capital investment but it results in compromises. Wonderful if you are satisfied with those compromises. Enjoy your car.

Interesting that Car and Driver’s top pick for the category is the Hyundai Iconiq 6. Not only beating the i4 but doing so for $15,000 lower base price MSRP. Transaction price differential is probably over $20,000.

BMW in times past was not about compromises. That is why their EV vision is flawed. It is a cheaper way to get 80%, maybe 85% of the result. That investment-to-value, risk-reward positioning was the strategy of others but never BMW. Until now.

Plus, why the freakishly large grill on an EV? It looks clownish.

Happy driving.

There is certainly nothing ‘wrong’ with shared platforms, it’s a design choice. As with most design choices there are pros & cons. One of the pros is a proven platform & design. One of the cons is interior space that isn’t as large as it could have been. Nothing ‘wrong’ there, simply a choice. No laws broken, no compromise in ethics. For those that don’t need a ton of space, there’s virtually no compromise. For those that do, there are other choices. BMW’s philosophy was always to ease their long term customers into an EV that didn’t look strange to them. I think this was a smart approach for an established company with BMW’s reputation.

As for the grill, that’s a subjective design point. Some love it some hate it. New BMWs always seem to garner criticism at the onset and those same critics wax poetic about those same cars years later. Nothing new.

When you look at it objectively, for a company testing the EV waters it’s actually a smart choice, preserving capital. Judging from the popularity of the i4 within the EV marketplace, I’d say they were pretty smart. The M-series i4 is BMW’s most popular M series car.

Moving on to dedicated EVs, they already produced the i3. Did you see my link to BMW’s upcoming 2025 dedicated EV sedans & SUVs? Patience young grasshopper, they’re coming. Although the cars shown are concept cars and we can’t be sure of the final aesthetics, their design language is already being praised in the automotive press.

 

[Steveinarizona]

There is certainly nothing ‘wrong’ with shared platforms, it’s a design choice. As with most design choices there are pros & cons. One of the pros is a proven platform & design. One of the cons is interior space that isn’t as large as it could have been. Nothing ‘wrong’ there, simply a choice. No laws broken, no compromise in ethics. For those that don’t need a ton of space, there’s virtually no compromise. For those that do, there are other choices. BMW’s philosophy was always to ease their long term customers into an EV that didn’t look strange to them. I think this was a smart approach for an established company with BMW’s reputation.

As for the grill, that’s a subjective design point. Some love it some hate it. New BMWs always seem to garner criticism at the onset and those same critics wax poetic about those same cars years later. Nothing new.

When you look at it objectively, for a company testing the EV waters it’s actually a smart choice, preserving capital. Judging from the popularity of the i4 within the EV marketplace, I’d say they were pretty smart. The M-series i4 is BMW’s most popular M series car.

Moving on to dedicated EVs, they already produced the i3. Did you see my link to BMW’s upcoming 2025 dedicated EV sedans & SUVs? Patience young grasshopper, they’re coming. Although the cars shown are concept cars and we can’t be sure of the final aesthetics, their design language is already being praised in the automotive press.

IMO the sedan looks great, the SUV, NO. I do agree with you otherwise. The nice thing about the current EV landscape is that it is no longer Tesla or ICE. There are now many EV brands out there. If someone doesn't like having a shared platform, there are plenty of cars with EV designed platforms. If someone doesn't like the BMW snouts, there are other choices. Etc.

 

[metallic]

I considered the i5 as well before purchasing the Lucid. Too many compromises for an EV on the i5. Felt it was a stepping stone product to a fully baked EV.

It will be interesting to see what Porsche does with the upcoming Boxster/Cayman EV. A true roadster as an EV. Probably a miniaturized Taycan.

 

[MJAir23TheGoat]

^^^
Audi RS GT > Taycan

 

[Lucken]

I considered the i5 as well before purchasing the Lucid. Too many compromises for an EV on the i5. Felt it was a stepping stone product to a fully baked EV.

It will be interesting to see what Porsche does with the upcoming Boxster/Cayman EV. A true roadster as an EV. Probably a miniaturized Taycan.

A friend just bought an i5 several days ago. Knowing I've owned EVs for years, he asked if he could come over for a lesson in chargers & charging since he was in the market for a L2 charger. I had not yet seen an i5 in the wild, so it was an interesting experience. I thought the car looked surprisingly nice in the blue-green color he selected (really better than in the pix and better than I remember in the showroom). Interestingly my wife preferred her i4, saying it seemed sportier to her. The interior is certainly reminiscent of the i4, but with an upgraded look and a few more bells & whistles. During the 5 minute ride to the EA chargers to show him the ins & outs of L3 charging, the i5's ride seemed quite familiar to me, not unlike the i4.

This is his first EV, having had Audis prior. He's actually a classic case of someone who wanted a familiar design, yet wanted to venture into the EV waters. IOW he's a classic case of why I think BMW's initial approach to EVs was the correct one. Although it's early in his ownership experience, he's head over heels in love with the car.

 

[fredp]

Is anyone else holding off on a Lucid because of upcoming EVs? I‘m speaking specifically of the BMW i5 M60, which has a lower range but the benefit of being from a legacy manufacturer with a solid service network, as well as a lower price? The early reviews also look incredibly promising (particularly the new self driving system). Curious to hear other’s thoughts.

We bought our Lucid Air Pure in June 2023 as a replacement car for my wife. I've been a BMW owner since the mid-90s and been looking to replace my ICE 335xi with a like EV (which does not exist, yet). I’m keeping an eye on upcoming EV models (right now at the top of the list is the Dodge Charger EV).

That said the thing that drew me to buy a Lucid, among the obvious range, look, ride, etc, was their excellence in maximizing cabin and storage space which came out of their over-all design and development philosophy.

One of the most important elements of any vehicle is power train. IMHO, if you look at Lucid’s power train development and philosophy, it’s far superior than that of its competitors, “optimizing every aspect of the Air’s performance and efficiency”.

Keep in mind the predecessor to Lucid, Atieva, was a company that ultimately made the drivetrain for Formula E and still continues to this day. This means max power at minimum weight and size.

Watch interviews with Peter Rowlinson about this. This convinced me that Lucid was and still is making the best EV power train in the market. For example, the Lucid drive unit is half the weight (and size?) of what goes in a Porsche among other design efficiencies (I’m no Elec Engr.). https://electrek.co/2023/01/25/lucid-ev-racing-motor-formula-e-gen3-cars-atieva/

Watch this recent interview with Mike Bell, https://www.motortrend.com/features/lucid-building-automobile-new-way-mike-bell-interview/

Lucid just has a superior design and build philosophy then others. To me this is more important then if the car has Android Auto or not.

 

[metallic]

A friend just bought an i5 several days ago. Knowing I've owned EVs for years, he asked if he could come over for a lesson in chargers & charging since he was in the market for a L2 charger. I had not yet seen an i5 in the wild, so it was an interesting experience. I thought the car looked surprisingly nice in the blue-green color he selected (really better than in the pix and better than I remember in the showroom). Interestingly my wife preferred her i4, saying it seemed sportier to her. The interior is certainly reminiscent of the i4, but with an upgraded look and a few more bells & whistles. During the 5 minute ride to the EA chargers to show him the ins & outs of L3 charging, the i5's ride seemed quite familiar to me, not unlike the i4.

This is his first EV, having had Audis prior. He's actually a classic case of someone who wanted a familiar design, yet wanted to venture into the EV waters. IOW he's a classic case of why I think BMW's initial approach to EVs was the correct one. Although it's early in his ownership experience, he's head over heels in love with the car.

Excellent point about BMW's approach. A relatively low cost approach from an R & D standpoint by converting existing models into EV's and still appealing to the traditional BMW buyer.

 

[koflo]

SavageGeese has uploaded the comparison this morning:

The TLDR is that the Lucid is the better driving vehicle with the BMW being a more luxurious ride. The ugly for Lucid that they were quick to point out is the infotainment being simple and lagging behind the competition along with the key not being recognized when inside the car or to unlock the vehicle (Crazy right? Like who would have thought?).

 

[momo3605]

The ugly for Lucid that they were quick to point out is the infotainment being simple and lagging behind the competition along with the key not being recognized when inside the car or to unlock the vehicle (Crazy right? Like who would have thought?).

Huh weird...if you ask this forum, the key works perfectly

 

[thecodingart]

It’s a nice car but has a butt grille — albeit the i5 is actually the least offender in the grille area.

I would wait for the recently announced next generation BMW EVs if you’re interested in that area.

 

[victoryroad]

SavageGeese has uploaded the comparison this morning:

The TLDR is that the Lucid is the better driving vehicle with the BMW being a more luxurious ride. The ugly for Lucid that they were quick to point out is the infotainment being simple and lagging behind the competition along with the key not being recognized when inside the car or to unlock the vehicle (Crazy right? Like who would have thought?).

No problem with the key in a year and a half with my AGT and glitches in the infotainment system can be annoying but everything else about the car is phenomenal for me.

I have to wonder if the OP has driven an AGT for more than a few minutes.

 

[Lucken]

Huh weird...if you ask this forum, the key works perfectly

What can I tell you, it works perfectly for me and I am 100% guilt-free.

 

[borski]

Huh weird...if you ask this forum, the key works perfectly

Get your antennas replaced

 

[koflo]

No problem with the key in a year and a half with my AGT and glitches in the infotainment system can be annoying but everything else about the car is phenomenal for me.

I have to wonder if the OP has driven an AGT for more than a few minutes.

This channel has done extensive coverage of the car at all trim levels. They have a 1.5 hour deep dive on the sapphire with lucid engineers giving them a look behind the curtains. If there is one reviewer to trust then it’s them.

Unless you mean me in which yes I daily a Dream edition performance.

 

[joec]

This channel has done extensive coverage of the car at all trim levels. They have a 1.5 hour deep dive on the sapphire with lucid engineers giving them a look behind the curtains. If there is one reviewer to trust then it’s them.

Unless you mean me in which yes I daily a Dream edition performance.

Yeah, I like the guys at SavageGeese a lot. I find they are mostly well informed and fair in their assessments. Good entertainment, too.

 

[HariK]

Totally disagree. I own both an i4 and a Lucid Pure AWD. I have no axe to grind and honestly love both cars.

There is nothing wrong with repurposing a proven ICE platform for an EV if you’re OK with somewhat cramped rear seating. Not everyone needs a cavernous rear seat. Some even prefer driving a smaller car for its inherent benefits. My RWD i4 has a range of over 300 miles, significantly outperforming EPA estimates as most German cars do. Efficiency of over 4mi/kWh is not difficult at all in nice weather. The car handles beautifully, as most reviews will attest to. In fact the handling is better than my Lucid, partly because of its excellent chassis dynamics (riding on that proven, legacy ICE platform) and partly because it’s smaller and more nimble than the Lucid.

Quality? I can only hope my Lucid measures up to the tank-like quality of my i4. Nearly 2 years of ownership and over 17,000 miles with not one single issue. Hardware & software are terrific. Not a single squeak, creak or groan nor any issues with software. You couldn’t ask for a better ownership experience.

If legacy ICE platforms bother you in an EV, the below is upcoming for BMW in 2025. So there does seem to be a ‘cohesive vision’ at BMW. I think for a legacy automaker, their approach has made all the sense in the world. Start off with proven ICE designs that have stood the test of time, learn from that, and move on to dedicated EV platforms.

By 2025 my wife and I may be looking to replace her i4 and these new concept BMW EVs (which have already garnered some excellent reviews for design language), along with the future midsize Lucid, are top contenders at this point. Fun times!

https://www.bmwusa.com/concept-vehicles/vision-neue-klasse.html

I own air pure awd and ioniq 5 limited. Both are the most efficient evs available as well as reliable. Hyundai Kia genesis has very mature software and good service network as well.