Yeah, no frunk, poor space, central transmission bulge, no dedicated platform. All those auto manufacturers delaying EV investments will see a day of reckoning. Lucid, Rivian and Tesla will be miles ahead!It can be a good car and still be lazy - I think both are true.
BMW makes good cars; nobody Is really disputing that. It being an EV doesn't mean it will be less good of a car. But lazy it definitely is; they want to have a foot in the EV world, so that they remain relevant, but refuse to 'commit' to really designing a proper EV from the ground up. The excuse is that they think people want to 'transition' but that's not true; Tesla already solved that problem a decade ago, and EVs are no longer 'new'.
But to really build one from the ground up would require true investment of time and money, and they haven't done that. You could argue priorities or resting on their laurels or a dozen other things, but the design/engineering effort of it definitely isn't 'leading edge.' It's lazy; lazy isn't always bad, but it is always lazy.
(Doing things lazily is sometimes the right answer; let the other folks figure out the market and everything first, and just hang out and see where it goes, then jump in and try to do something real. That's a valid strategy many are following right now)
Pulled the Trigger on Feb. 29th. ETA approx. 2 ~ 5 months.
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xponents
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I agree with your first statement, but the rest of your argument I do not agree with. BMW has been quite vocal about the "power of choice," and with newer models such as the 7 series having EV, gas, and hybrid versions, they are certainly abiding to that (even the next M3 is rumored to have EV and S58's). When BMW actually does create a dedicated EV platform (the i3 platform was a marvel with all the CFRP..), it is always great. The BMW iX also uses a "EV edited" version of CLAR, and its interior space is proof it worked (other than the frunk issue). Neue Klasse models are coming soon that will make electric models completely different from the gas models (kind of like the EQ models), and the first example of this will be the next gen iX3 and the normal X3. For now, they are only sticking to one agenda, and that is the power of choice. You certainly can't disagree they are doing that specific thing well, even though some like us want an actually dedicated EV model.It can be a good car and still be lazy - I think both are true.
BMW makes good cars; nobody Is really disputing that. It being an EV doesn't mean it will be less good of a car. But lazy it definitely is; they want to have a foot in the EV world, so that they remain relevant, but refuse to 'commit' to really designing a proper EV from the ground up. The excuse is that they think people want to 'transition' but that's not true; Tesla already solved that problem a decade ago, and EVs are no longer 'new'.
But to really build one from the ground up would require true investment of time and money, and they haven't done that. You could argue priorities or resting on their laurels or a dozen other things, but the design/engineering effort of it definitely isn't 'leading edge.' It's lazy; lazy isn't always bad, but it is always lazy.
(Doing things lazily is sometimes the right answer; let the other folks figure out the market and everything first, and just hang out and see where it goes, then jump in and try to do something real. That's a valid strategy many are following right now)
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A design choice does not necessarily imply laziness. We’ll agree to disagree on that point.It can be a good car and still be lazy - I think both are true.
BMW makes good cars; nobody Is really disputing that. It being an EV doesn't mean it will be less good of a car. But lazy it definitely is; they want to have a foot in the EV world, so that they remain relevant, but refuse to 'commit' to really designing a proper EV from the ground up. The excuse is that they think people want to 'transition' but that's not true; Tesla already solved that problem a decade ago, and EVs are no longer 'new'.
But to really build one from the ground up would require true investment of time and money, and they haven't done that. You could argue priorities or resting on their laurels or a dozen other things, but the design/engineering effort of it definitely isn't 'leading edge.' It's lazy; lazy isn't always bad, but it is always lazy.
(Doing things lazily is sometimes the right answer; let the other folks figure out the market and everything first, and just hang out and see where it goes, then jump in and try to do something real. That's a valid strategy many are following right now)
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I have no problem with choice. But that doesn't mean that the car has to be exactly the same with the exception of whether or not it has an engine. They could change the design of the EV version to have superior qualities, such as a frunk, no transmission tunnel, more interior space, and what have you.
But they don't do that; instead, they keep the designs precisely the same (almost), to save cost and time. And that's fine!
But it's also... lazy. And there's nothing wrong with lazy, as lazy saves cost and time. But it doesn't move the leading edge forward.
That's my only point.
I waited 2.5 years and have not regretted it. My Touring is a dream to drive for short hops and long road trips even though it doesn’t have the massage function. Dedicated engineering is the awesome soul of the car. My advice: Wait.
Steveinarizona
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I respectfully disagree. BMW was one of the first companies to make a pure electric (I3) and the IX is designed as an electric from the ground up using the Neue Klasse platform. But BMW also made a decision, which is exactly that, not a lazy decision, that as a world wide luxury car company it had to continue to offer its ICE and hybrid models alongside its electric offerings.It can be a good car and still be lazy - I think both are true.
BMW makes good cars; nobody Is really disputing that. It being an EV doesn't mean it will be less good of a car. But lazy it definitely is; they want to have a foot in the EV world, so that they remain relevant, but refuse to 'commit' to really designing a proper EV from the ground up. The excuse is that they think people want to 'transition' but that's not true; Tesla already solved that problem a decade ago, and EVs are no longer 'new'.
But to really build one from the ground up would require true investment of time and money, and they haven't done that. You could argue priorities or resting on their laurels or a dozen other things, but the design/engineering effort of it definitely isn't 'leading edge.' It's lazy; lazy isn't always bad, but it is always lazy.
(Doing things lazily is sometimes the right answer; let the other folks figure out the market and everything first, and just hang out and see where it goes, then jump in and try to do something real. That's a valid strategy many are following right now)
BMW could have gone entirely for a skateboard EV platform as did Mercedes with its EQ platform but...we all saw how that went and now Mercedes is moving back toward EVs that are like their ICE offerings.
Rather than being a "lazy" choice, BMW made the decision to transition via shared platforms which required some quality engineering. Genesis made a similar decision creating the GV60 as a pure EV platform but electrifying other models. I test drove the IX and I4 and they drove very well, albeit not quite as well as a Lucid Air.
xponents
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Agree on all counts. It was a purposeful decision, not laziness IMO. The fact that "despite" this BMW EV's beat the crap out of the EQ series on literally all counts (unless you like strip club interiors) shows that BMW is using CLAR to their benefit, and it is working very well. As you and I said previously, the i3 platform was purpose built and was a marvel of engineering. Of luxury legacy manufacturers, I happen to think BMW is in the lead (and across all products, maybe the Hyundai group and their E-GMP comes close to them?).
There is one thing wrong with what you said: the iX was not designed on Neue Klasse. It was designed on a heavily modified version of CLAR, and the first cars with Neue Klasse will be the next electric 3 series (previewed with the iNext) and the iX3 (of which spy photos are online).
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I had thought about the iX after posting my i4/Lucid comparison but chose not to repost. However I had also forgotten about the i3, an EV on a bespoke platform. So clearly BMW is covering several bases and doing it well. Over 45,000 BMW EVs were sold in the U.S. in 2023, after a record 4th quarter of BMW EV sales. Since many (most?) of these are i4s, I’d say BMW’s approach is working. Many EV makers would love to have these sales numbers based on this ‘lazy’ approach.
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If you plan to own the car for a long time, think about 256mile epa range on 81kWh battery 3.2 miles per kWh BMW vs Touring 410miles epa range 92kWh battery 4.4 miles per kWh if you like the ugly grill. Anyway, that is just my opinion.
Steveinarizona
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I don't like the ugly grille and that is why I am no longer driving a BMW. But that doesn't mean that BMW doesn't make great (albeit IMO ugly) cars.
And, BTW, the only way the Lucid gets 4.4 mkh is if you baby it and why the hell would one buy a Lucid and baby it.
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Wow! I didn't even know you could get the fathom blue color for 2024 for a Touring model.. shows you what I know!
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I wouldn’t normally, but having the *option* to is really convenient.
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My point is relative epa efficiency and not absolute at any driving speed
An ICE car converted to an EV is not great engineering.
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Unless the underlying vehicle upon which the EV evolved from had great engineering, ride & handling.
northernstar
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Lol… I was swamped with work for the past few days… Didn’t expect my i5 BMW thought would stir a pot here.
I apologize to you all as it wasn’t my intention to compete/down-put one brand/car from another.
And just for the record... no… I have never considered MB EQ series whatsoever.
I apologize to you all as it wasn’t my intention to compete/down-put one brand/car from another.
- Most likely I’ll stick with ~5 months wait for Lucid AT as my Audi S5 is still going strong without any issues
- My 'original' choice was the Audi e-tron A6 for the past 3 years... Believe me I also know 1 or 2 things about waiting
- I just liked what I saw, read, and viewed in the BMW i5 M60 while I was cross-shopping for the past few months.
- All cars are compromised to some degree…
- From my point of view and the list of things i prioritize… the range and other ‘controversial’ things in i5 weren't an absolute deal breaker..at least for me.
- “Look” is subjective… personally i felt the new i5 design was much ‘subtle’ than i7… or iX
- I’d pick the interior design / UI of Lucid over BMW on any day…
And just for the record... no… I have never considered MB EQ series whatsoever.
northernstar
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Yes! Fathom blue + Glass Canopy Black Stealth was a love at first sight... the moment I entered the San Diego Lucid Store
northernstar
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I really do hope that this "The new solo tier will include Dolby Atmos, HiRes FLAC and lossless audio for over 100 million songs. " is true.
Engadget
northernstar
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Yes, this car definitely made my heart pounce... Can't wait to 'meet' my car... Hell, I'll fly out to the Casa Grande factory to pick it up if it comes to that.
northernstar
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Silver or White + glass canopy platinum at first... until I saw the Fathom Blue + Stealth model... sitting pretty at the Lucid store.
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