DreamDrive Pro

[hydbob]

So it held the lane on curves? Does it also automatically change lanes on the freeway to pass slower vehicles? What about knowing when to move over and exit the freeway automatically based upon the Navigation Route?

It kept the lane on highway even on curves. There were 0 cars to pass when I went out for my drive. Did not test the nav route, so maybe it wasn't L3?

 

[mnewber1]

My advisor claims Lucid has L5 software capabilities already established and will release based on availability. I highly doubt full L5, however.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

My advisor claims Lucid has L5 software capabilities already established and will release based on availability. I highly doubt full L5, however.

You guys are way ahead of me. Can you describe the differences between L2, L3, and L5 please?

 

[RichMalden]

You guys are way ahead of me. Can you describe the differences between L2, L3, and L5 please?

SAE (J3016) Automation Levels[79] hide

SAE Level	Name	Narrative definition	Execution of steering and acceleration/ deceleration	Monitoring of driving environment	Fallback performance of dynamic driving task	System capability (driving modes)
Human driver monitors the driving environment
0	No Automation	The full-time performance by the human driver of all aspects of the dynamic driving task, even when "enhanced by warning or intervention systems"	Human driver	Human driver	Human driver	n/a
1	Driver Assistance	The driving mode-specific execution by a driver assistance system of "either steering or acceleration/deceleration"	using information about the driving environment and with the expectation that the human driver performs all remaining aspects of the dynamic driving task	Human driver and system	Some driving modes
2	Partial Automation	The driving mode-specific execution by one or more driver assistance systems of both steering and acceleration/deceleration	System
Automated driving system monitors the driving environment
3	Conditional Automation	The driving mode-specific performance by an automated driving system of all aspects of the dynamic driving task	with the expectation that the human driver will respond appropriately to a request to intervene	System	System	Human driver	Some driving modes
4	High Automation	even if a human driver does not respond appropriately to a request to intervene the car can pull over safely by guiding system	System	Many driving modes
5	Full Automation	under all roadway and environmental conditions that can be managed by a human driver	All driving modes

 

[mnewber1]

You guys are way ahead of me. Can you describe the differences between L2, L3, and L5 please?

I work on autonomous boats so I gotta know lol.

Here's a great graphic:

 

[hydbob]

Based on the chart, Lucid has level 3 automation working already.

 

[idiot900]

My advisor claims Lucid has L5 software capabilities already established and will release based on availability. I highly doubt full L5, however.

I'll believe it when I see it. They didn't even ship with adaptive cruise control. If they have reliable L5, where are the promotional videos? Journalist ride-alongs during snowstorms?

 

[mnewber1]

I'll believe it when I see it. They didn't even ship with adaptive cruise control. If they have reliable L5, where are the promotional videos? Journalist ride-alongs during snowstorms?

This was before I made a reservation (during my first meeting) so I have a feeling it may be a sales pitch and not an actuality.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Based on the chart, Lucid has level 3 automation working already.

Not level 3. Need to have your hands on the steering wheel, so level 2. No one is truly level 3 yet, although Tesla claims to be. Level 3 would be in the drivers seat, but can drive without touching the steering wheel. All cars currently require you to be touching the wheel, which makes them level 2 not 3. Yes, some will drive without your hand on the wheel for a short time, but once the car detects that hands are not present, the automation disengages.

 

[hmp10]

Not level 3. Need to have your hands on the steering wheel, so level 2. No one is truly level 3 yet, although Tesla claims to be. Level 3 would be in the drivers seat, but can drive without touching the steering wheel. All cars currently require you to be touching the wheel, which makes them level 2 not 3. Yes, some will drive without your hand on the wheel for a short time, but once the car detects that hands are not present, the automation disengages.

As I understand it, keeping your hand on the steering wheel is simply a way for the ADAS system to know the driver is paying attention. However, one can easily doze off for a moment with one's hand resting on the wheel and -- especially with one's wrist resting on a steering wheel spoke -- perhaps considerably longer. A driver can also rummage through a glovebox or around a floorboard while still keeping one's hand on the wheel. A well-designed driver monitoring camera would be more effective for monitoring driver attention even at Level 2 ADAS.

Lucid, at least in early days of touting its ADAS approach, made a big deal about its driver monitoring camera (which Teslas do not yet have) performing that function by assessing direction of gaze, orientation of head, etc.

Does anyone know whether the Air's driver monitoring camera will be the monitoring method at L2 or only come into play at L3?

 

[hydbob]

As I understand it, keeping your hand on the steering wheel is simply a way for the ADAS system to know the driver is paying attention. However, one can easily doze off for a moment with one's hand resting on the wheel and -- especially with one's wrist resting on a steering wheel spoke -- perhaps considerably longer. A driver can also rummage through a glovebox or around a floorboard while still keeping one's hand on the wheel. A well-designed driver monitoring camera would be more effective for monitoring driver attention even at Level 2 ADAS.

Lucid, at least in early days of touting its ADAS approach, made a big deal about its driver monitoring camera (which Teslas do not yet have) performing that function by assessing direction of gaze, orientation of head, etc.

Does anyone know whether the Air's driver monitoring camera will be the monitoring method at L2 or only come into play at L3?

It monitors me now *shakes fist* but the ADAS drove itself in AZ with no hands on wheel. I think once highway assist is out, the Air could probably do the L3 with no hands on wheel

 

[Yugi]

For those of you wondering whether you need to add DreamDrive Pro at the time of configuration to get it, the answer is yes.

View attachment 909

Could be another situation of spending $9,000 for software that won't be delivered until it's time to trade in your Air for the next model (looking at you, Tesla!). Quite a risk for Touring and Pure owners.

This will affect the resale value of cars with no Dreamdrive pro hardware.

 

[mnewber1]

This will affect the resale value of cars with no Dreamdrive pro hardware.

It should also be an indication that Lucid doesn't plan to follow in Tesla's footsteps and remove DreamDrive Pro when you resell your car (they still could but I hope not).

 

[Yugi]

It should also be an indication that Lucid doesn't plan to follow in Tesla's footsteps and remove DreamDrive Pro when you resell your car (they still could but I hope not).

How is it different from Tesla? Isn’t always tied to vehicle? When we sell it new owner would have it?

 

[mnewber1]

How is it different from Tesla? Isn’t always tied to vehicle? When we sell it new owner would have it?

If you sell privately, FSD stays with the car. If you sell to a dealer, there's a solid chance it does not transfer (rare cases it does) and the new buyer would have to buy it also.

 

[SDHacker]

It monitors me now *shakes fist* but the ADAS drove itself in AZ with no hands on wheel. I think once highway assist is out, the Air could probably do the L3 with no hands on wheel

From watching videos of the factory tour drives, they didn't have the driver monitor camera active yet. I think that even in hands free mode, they require that you seem to be looking at the road. When Lucid adds Traffic Jam Assist to Highway Pilot is when most would agree L3 has been achieved. GMC's Supercruise has been upgraded to include handsfree highway driving with automated lane change to pass slower vehicles but it is still considered L2. Honda's system in Japan was L2 until they added Traffic Jam Pilot which moved it to L3. So while there are very generic definitions of what constitutes L2 vs L3 which confuses all of us, there apparently exist specific requirements before government agencies will label a system L3.

 

[hydbob]

From watching videos of the factory tour drives, they didn't have the driver monitor camera active yet. I think that even in hands free mode, they require that you seem to be looking at the road. When Lucid adds Traffic Jam Assist to Highway Pilot is when most would agree L3 has been achieved. GMC's Supercruise has been upgraded to include handsfree highway driving with automated lane change to pass slower vehicles but it is still considered L2. Honda's system in Japan was L2 until they added Traffic Jam Pilot which moved it to L3. So while there are very generic definitions of what constitutes L2 vs L3 which confuses all of us, there apparently exist specific requirements before government agencies will label a system L3.

Ahh, but isn't Blue Cruise only active on specific roads?

 

[SDHacker]

Ahh, but isn't Blue Cruise only active on specific roads?

Yes, both Supercruise and Bluecruise are geofenced to activate only on highways that have been mapped. I think they rely on a 3rd party to have lidar mapped the highways.

I'm going to propose a definition that will simplify our understanding of L2 vs L3. L2, the driver is responsible for monitoring the environment and determines when they must take control. L3, the car is responsible for monitoring the environment and tells the driver when they must take control. With this definition, Supercruise and Bluecruise are clearly L2. Mercedes is introducing a partial L3 in Germany that is only active below 37 mph on selected highways - essentially, they are activating Traffic Jam Pilot without Highway Pilot. This is the reverse of all the other companies which are instituting Highway Pilot then Traffic Jam Pilot.

For Lucid to achieve L3, they must add automated lane change and nav guided highway entry to exit automation to complete Highway Pilot, and Traffic Jam Pilot. The ability to handle congested conditions without driver attention seems key to getting approval as a L3 system. Honda seems to be the only approved L3 system incorporating both highway and traffic jam pilot.

 

[mnewber1]

I wonder what Lucid will classify different features. Such as Highway assist? Traffic Jam assist, and lane changing features. Dream Drive or Pro?

 

[Steveinarizona]

This will affect the resale value of cars with no Dreamdrive pro hardware.

Historically, for used car sales, options have not returned much value.