Why some EV owners went back to ICE

[Tesla2.0]

Very well articulated points

 

[xponents]

So essentially charging stations. And for lucid owners, mostly around the pathetic mess that EA is.

 

[blueice89]

ev charge infrastructure is so vital to the success and image of ev. However I do think the counter point is a lot of people charge at home.

 

[hmp10]

I am a huge advocate for EVs and since 2018 have influenced, at least partially, seven friends and relatives to buy EVs, with another planning to do so when his ICE lease expires. All find their EVs (two VW ID.4s, Mustang Mach-E, Tesla Model Y, two Tesla Model 3s, Chevy Bolt EUV) to be the the most enjoyable cars they've ever owned. Also, all have private home charging, except one who has to use a public L2 plug in the garage of his condo building.

Every single one of the non-Tesla EV owners I know has experienced problems with CCS roadside charging.

Sadly, after over a year of dealing with the deteriorating situation at CCS DC fast chargers -- particularly Electrify America's -- I no longer recommend any EV other than a Tesla to friends who would not also have an ICE car for long road trips.

Even in our household, where we find the Lucid Air a much better road car than our Model S Plaid, we are now opting for the Tesla for long trips in order to avoid CCS anxiety. Fortunately, the vast majority of our driving -- even treks across Florida and back -- is within the range of the Lucid without having to recharge.

One of the reasons I've decided not to move from our Dream Performance to a Sapphire is the likelihood of reduced range in this deteriorating CCS charging climate.

 

[blueice89]

Just to make a smalll comment here I live in Phoenix and we surprised our kids with a wonderful trip to Anaheim California for Disneyland. We only had our Model S Plaid at the time we drove from Phoenix to Quartxzite about half way. There are 26 chargers at Tesla Quartzite and all of them capable of 250kw max. At least comparatively to EA - this is the biggest charging station I have ever seen and there are plans to expand it to 80+ chargers in coming years. So we stopped at this one charger and small charger inside California for our entire trip to Disneyland and on the way back we only stopped at 1 charger in Ehrenberg. At 370 miles range on Plaid fully charged it makes it a nice road trip car that is pretty reliable so I just wanted to say I do agree Tesla is reliable network.

 

[Tesla2.0]

At 370 miles range on Plaid fully charged it makes it a nice road trip car that is pretty reliable so I just wanted to say I do agree Tesla is reliable network.

Well, I’m a living proof of able to go across half country in non-Tesla SC network despite friends advised not to.
Next time I will try with Lucid Air go farther than just Houston-Dallas. I don’t think EA is that bad, maybe just very bad in east coast seaboard.

 

[hmp10]

At 370 miles range on Plaid fully charged it makes it a nice road trip car that is pretty reliable so I just wanted to say I do agree Tesla is reliable network.

We typically get only about 72-73% of rated range (348 miles on 21" wheels) when driving our Plaid at sustained highway speeds (~80 mph) on road trips. Although our Air also suffers range loss at similar speeds, it is a bit less (78-80%), and the rated range of the Air Dream P (451 miles) is about 100 miles more than the Plaid.

In real-world driving on road trips, where we typically charge up to 90% at charging stops, this gives us about 90 miles more range in the Air:

Tesla: 348 EPA x .90 x .72 = 225 miles.

Lucid: 451 EPA x .90 x .78 = 316 miles.

 

[hmp10]

Well, I’m a living proof of able to go across half country in non-Tesla SC network despite friends advised not to.
Next time I will try with Lucid Air go farther than just Houston-Dallas. I don’t think EA is that bad, maybe just very bad in east coast seaboard.

We've made a 1200-mile and a 1600-mile round trip in our Lucid. Admittedly, we've never been stranded with no way to charge. However, there's much more to a tolerable road trip than that.

In Savannah we were on the phone with EA (in a driving downpour) for 79 minutes trying to get a charger to work. In Charleston we (and several other drivers) had to wait over an hour while a crew finished "routine maintenance" at the location. In Brunswick we had to stand in line to use the one cable at the location that worked. At every other charging stop on both trips, we had to change cables at least once to find a post that would initiate a charge or that didn't stop the charge within a few seconds to minutes of starting.

With all of these delays added onto the time it actually took to charge, we seldom had a charging stopover that lasted less than an hour -- and some that lasted almost two. It renders moot (and absurd) all the hoopla EV makers are putting out about how many miles of range you can add in how few minutes.

 

[blueice89]

We typically get only about 72-73% of rated range (348 miles on 21" wheels) when driving our Plaid at sustained highway speeds (~80 mph) on road trips. Although our Air also suffers range loss at similar speeds, it is a bit less (78-80%), and the rated range of the Air Dream P (451 miles) is about 100 miles more than the Plaid.

In real-world driving on road trips, where we typically charge up to 90% at charging stops, this gives us about 90 miles more range in the Air:

Tesla: 348 EPA x .90 x .72 = 225 miles.

Lucid: 451 EPA x .90 x .78 = 316 miles.

We do have stock 19s wheel cover and mostly autopilot

 

[joec]

Yeah, the charging infrastructure is not in a good state right now. But honestly, I can count on two hands how many times I needed to charge anywhere other than home in the past three years.

If you are not set up for charging at home, you are missing by far the biggest advantage of going EV in the first place. So in that case, I totally don’t recommend buying an EV. And I am aware that rules out a large number of people. Sucks. But that’s where we are at the moment. Things are improving. Slowly.

If you do long-distance travel very regularly, yeah. You are also not an ideal candidate for an EV.

But most people who do have the ability to charge at home will only fret over charging the few times they road trip over 300 miles or so per year. This is far less common than most YouTubers would have you believe.

So yeah, the situation is not ideal. But suggesting everyone should just continue buying ICE cars in the meantime seems counterproductive to me. It’s a chicken and egg situation. The chargers won’t come until the demand is there.

 

[Bobby]

Manufacturers offering "free" charging tips this balance unfavorably. People who would ordinarily charge at home would rather charge at an EA for free. This crowds the stations. I'm looking forward to the end of free charging.

 

[borski]

I am a huge advocate for EVs and since 2018 have influenced, at least partially, seven friends and relatives to buy EVs, with another planning to do so when his ICE lease expires. All find their EVs (two VW ID.4s, Mustang Mach-E, Tesla Model Y, two Tesla Model 3s, Chevy Bolt EUV) to be the the most enjoyable cars they've ever owned. Also, all have private home charging, except one who has to use a public L2 plug in the garage of his condo building.

Every single one of the non-Tesla EV owners I know has experienced problems with CCS roadside charging.

Sadly, after over a year of dealing with the deteriorating situation at CCS DC fast chargers -- particularly Electrify America's -- I no longer recommend any EV other than a Tesla to friends who would not also have an ICE car for long road trips.

Even in our household, where we find the Lucid Air a much better road car than our Model S Plaid, we are now opting for the Tesla for long trips in order to avoid CCS anxiety. Fortunately, the vast majority of our driving -- even treks across Florida and back -- is within the range of the Lucid without having to recharge.

One of the reasons I've decided not to move from our Dream Performance to a Sapphire is the likelihood of reduced range in this deteriorating CCS charging climate.

As a counterpoint, I’ve done 6 multi day / multi week road trips on and around the west coast and have never had an EA issue, and have never had “CCS anxiety”.

The one trip I did in my rented Model Y to Sacramento had me praying it would make it there, and when we got to a supercharger it was *packed* with cars waiting to charge. I didn’t have a choice but to wait (because of the low charge), but it was unpleasant.

Of course that’s not everyone’s experience, but it does seem the west coast has better EA in general than the east coast.

I’ve sold both my ICE cars and have no hesitation to take my Lucid on a long road trip; in fact, my friend is borrowing it in a couple weeks for a trip to LA while I’m out of the country and I’m not at all concerned he’ll be left stranded somewhere.

 

[HC_79]

As a counterpoint, I’ve done 6 multi day / multi week road trips on and around the west coast and have never had an EA issue, and have never had “CCS anxiety”.

Go buy yourself a lotto ticket because you must be the luckiest man alive! My experience is the complete opposite doing numerous trips from SoCal to NorCal.

Also, if you win I want half

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

borderline eagle ? that's a Jersey mosquito.

don't fall for the "broken wing" trick....it's coming for your chips.

 

[CraZ8]

I am a huge advocate for EVs and since 2018 have influenced, at least partially, seven friends and relatives to buy EVs, with another planning to do so when his ICE lease expires. All find their EVs (two VW ID.4s, Mustang Mach-E, Tesla Model Y, two Tesla Model 3s, Chevy Bolt EUV) to be the the most enjoyable cars they've ever owned. Also, all have private home charging, except one who has to use a public L2 plug in the garage of his condo building.

Every single one of the non-Tesla EV owners I know has experienced problems with CCS roadside charging.

Sadly, after over a year of dealing with the deteriorating situation at CCS DC fast chargers -- particularly Electrify America's -- I no longer recommend any EV other than a Tesla to friends who would not also have an ICE car for long road trips.

Even in our household, where we find the Lucid Air a much better road car than our Model S Plaid, we are now opting for the Tesla for long trips in order to avoid CCS anxiety. Fortunately, the vast majority of our driving -- even treks across Florida and back -- is within the range of the Lucid without having to recharge.

One of the reasons I've decided not to move from our Dream Performance to a Sapphire is the likelihood of reduced range in this deteriorating CCS charging climate.

Excellent post and the exact same things I hear from other EV drivers and the concerns I hear from non EV drivers who will not buy because of the crap chargers. Just tonight I was up north to meet friends for dinner and stopped at a 4 stall EA location. Lo and behold three stalls were open and I plugged into a 350kw charger ( had to use the app because plug and charge just doesn’t seem to work anymore) within 5 minutes all stalls were filled and we had three waiters, one of whom left in disgust after 10 minutes. I noticed my car started charging at 134kw at 20 %SOC but soon was down to 104kw. The ionic next to me was charging at 148kw at 30 % SOC. What the hell? What’s the purpose of having a 900 volt architecture if you can never seem to utilize it? Tesla can’t open their chargers fast enough to other makes for me.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

-- I no longer recommend any EV other than a Tesla to friends who would not also have an ICE car for long road trips.

ditto

had to wait over an hour while a crew finished "routine maintenance" at the location.
a relay,

I don't understand...what maintenance ? WTF are they doing?
There's a wire, an ATM, a relay switch, and another wire ? You don't even have to refill the ATM with cash...you don't have to wait for a tanker truck to fill up the underground storage tanks. THEIR IS NOTHING TO MAINTAIN !
I'm calling bullshit. It's Big Charger .... rise up and revolt ! (dad joke)

The only think I can imagine that they could be "maintaining" is Mercedes Mice .... those bastards ... EA has to stop using Mercedes-flavored wire!

 

[DBV]

As a counterpoint, I’ve done 6 multi day / multi week road trips on and around the west coast and have never had an EA issue, and have never had “CCS anxiety”.

The one trip I did in my rented Model Y to Sacramento had me praying it would make it there, and when we got to a supercharger it was *packed* with cars waiting to charge. I didn’t have a choice but to wait (because of the low charge), but it was unpleasant.

Of course that’s not everyone’s experience, but it does seem the west coast has better EA in general than the east coast.

I’ve sold both my ICE cars and have no hesitation to take my Lucid on a long road trip; in fact, my friend is borrowing it in a couple weeks for a trip to LA while I’m out of the country and I’m not at all concerned he’ll be left stranded somewhere.

Most definitely CA is much further along than any other State. I doubt that would be your experience in the Midwest, unless you could use a Tesla Supercharger. Wish other EV charging companies would emulate Tesla Supercharging asap. It can’t get here fast enough. So nice with Tesla, just get out, plug in and fill up. Plus, lots of choices where to do it. That is the way it needs to be. Easy.

I also wish EV companies would stop giving away free charging. Then people would only charge when traveling.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I noticed my car started charging at 134kw at 20 %SOC but soon was down to 104kw. The ionic next to me was charging at 148kw at 30 % SOC. What the hell? What’s the purpose of having a 900 volt architecture if you can never seem to utilize it? Tesla can’t open their chargers fast enough to other makes for me.

Ioniq5 has 800 volt architecture. I have eerie feeling that possible bc Lucid is free and larger battery size, EA may just set limit not to let Air drain too fast of its reservoir. Either that assumption or that station is too busy to replenish electricity fast enough from grid. I was very surprised Rivian at 400 volt is being charged at 205 kW to 145 kW prior to 50% SOC. I was assuming EA gives paying juice customers at faster transmission rate?

 

[CraZ8]

Ioniq5 has 800 volt architecture. I have eerie feeling that possible bc Lucid is free and larger battery size, EA may just set limit not to let Air drain too fast of its reservoir. Either that assumption or that station is too busy to replenish electricity fast enough from grid. I was very surprised Rivian at 400 volt is being charged at 205 kW to 145 kW prior to 50% SOC. I was assuming EA gives paying juice customers at faster transmission rate?

You may be onto something there. I also believe in the second shooter theory from the grassy knoll

 

[hmp10]

ditto



I don't understand...what maintenance ? WTF are they doing?

They weren't working on the charging stations. They had the side panel off the transformer that feeds the stations, and two men were at work on it. They were subcontractors who told me they handle EV charging maintenance over a wide area.

My issue is not doing maintenance. It's why maintenance that takes down a whole location is not scheduled for off-peak hours instead of during peak travel times. Lots of industries run night shifts for similar reasons. In seven years of driving Teslas, I have never come across a work crew at a Supercharger during daytime hours.