What is the purpose of ROLL?

[pyle112]

What is the purpose of ROLL? It seems like it's a form of neutral. I'm not a fan of hold. And I would think if you have creep enabled and roll on the car would behave like an ICE car that had a standard IDLE. My issue is if I am facing up a slope on ROLL and CREEP and put the car into D it should move forward but instead it rolls backwards. This makes parallel parking difficult and dangerous in tight spots. The same when facing down a slope and putting it in reverse- the moment you tap the accelerator and let go it moves forward.

 

[hydbob]

What is the purpose of ROLL? It seems like it's a form of neutral. I'm not a fan of hold. And I would think if you have creep enabled and roll on the car would behave like an ICE car that had a standard IDLE. My issue is if I am facing up a slope on ROLL and CREEP and put the car into D it should move forward but instead it rolls backwards. This makes parallel parking difficult and dangerous in tight spots. The same when facing down a slope and putting it in reverse- the moment you tap the accelerator and let go it moves forward.

Sounds like ROLL is working as intended? If you are facing up a hill, and put it in DRIVE with ROLL enabled, it SHOULD roll downhill with gravity. Same goes for vice versa. Think of ROLL as putting the car into NEUTRAL. CREEP gets the car moving in the direction your shifter is enabled, but cannot fight gravity.

 

[xponents]

What is the purpose of ROLL? It seems like it's a form of neutral. I'm not a fan of hold. And I would think if you have creep enabled and roll on the car would behave like an ICE car that had a standard IDLE. My issue is if I am facing up a slope on ROLL and CREEP and put the car into D it should move forward but instead it rolls backwards. This makes parallel parking difficult and dangerous in tight spots. The same when facing down a slope and putting it in reverse- the moment you tap the accelerator and let go it moves forward.

In every gas car I've been in, it rolls DOWN a slope. And with a underpowered honda accord, that sensation is already horrible.

I think Lucid did a very good job by catering to everybody: Manual people used to a clutch, automatics, and people that want to jump into one pedal driving(and the future).

 

[pyle112]

Sounds like ROLL is working as intended? If you are facing up a hill, and put it in DRIVE with ROLL enabled, it SHOULD roll downhill with gravity. Same goes for vice versa. Think of ROLL as putting the car into NEUTRAL. CREEP gets the car moving in the direction your shifter is enabled, but cannot fight gravity.

But the lucid has a neutral. And it moves with gravity, not with the direction of R or D

 

[pyle112]

In every gas car I've been in, it rolls DOWN a slope. And with a underpowered honda accord, that sensation is already horrible.

I think Lucid did a very good job by catering to everybody: Manual people used to a clutch, automatics, and people that want to jump into one pedal driving(and the future).

Maybe what I was hoping for was a function like creep without HOLD

 

[momo3605]

ROLL is kind of like a DCT/manual sitting in neutral. You tap the gas and the car will keep rolling from its own momentum. This makes it easier to reverse for example compared to hold because you don’t have to constantly hit the gas to backup which can be jerky

 

[Darax]

Maybe what I was hoping for was a function like creep without HOLD

I feel the same way. Transitioning from start to stop or stop to start in the Lucid is quite a bit different than other (automatic) cars I've driven. One thing they could consider would be to have a map from make/model/year of car to driving settings, so the car could be configured to be as much like the previous vehicle as possible, with information about how the car will be different (IE, lucid can't move the column shifter to the center console via software). They could also note where the settings reduce efficiency or experience, and suggest a plan to 'retrain'. This would both help drivers transition to the Lucid and help Lucid find blind spots in its current configuration. For instance, the signal indicator cancel behavior might have been addressed long before the recent patch.

 

[xponents]

I feel the same way. Transitioning from start to stop or stop to start in the Lucid is quite a bit different than other (automatic) cars I've driven. One thing they could consider would be to have a map from make/model/year of car to driving settings, so the car could be configured to be as much like the previous vehicle as possible, with information about how the car will be different (IE, lucid can't move the column shifter to the center console via software). They could also note where the settings reduce efficiency or experience, and suggest a plan to 'retrain'. This would both help drivers transition to the Lucid and help Lucid find blind spots in its current configuration. For instance, the signal indicator cancel behavior might have been addressed long before the recent patch.

That would be a REALLY good idea in theory, but I cant even imagine how much work it would take.

 

[Darax]

That would be a REALLY good idea in theory, but I cant even imagine how much work it would take.

In reality there are probably only a dozen or so configurations. I expect this is similar (or less) effort than creating the interface for programming a harmony remote. A simple version wouldn't be too hard to put together. The actual software is just a wrapper around some database. Common cars could be added in house during development. Getting the data for the rest of the entries could be outsourced.

Note that I'm not including the 'retraining' idea. That does sound like a lot of work, though even it might only require a few concepts to be covered.

 

[borski]

In reality there are probably only a dozen or so configurations. I expect this is similar (or less) effort than creating the interface for programming a harmony remote. A simple version wouldn't be too hard to put together. The actual software is just a wrapper around some database. Common cars could be added in house during development. Getting the data for the rest of the entries could be outsourced.

Note that I'm not including the 'retraining' idea. That does sound like a lot of work, though even it might only require a few concepts to be covered.

Every time I hear anyone say anything about software that more or less sounds like "should be easy, all you need to do is these three extremely high level bullet points," I am reminded that this should be required reading: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-softw...y-off-by-a-factor-of-2-3/answer/Michael-Wolfe

The reason software is hard, and the reason people who don't write software are awful at understanding why it's so hard to make accurate time estimates, is because it is almost always entering the land of the unknown. It starts out obvious, and then you find some bug in some library, forcing you to rewrite a whole thing, which takes an unexpected couple days, and then you realize you have some version mismatches, only to find out that your idea for how the algorithm was going to work will never work, because of this fatal flaw your colleague found, so now you're back to square one, only this time you have more knowledge. You've made tons of progress, but to anyone looking on externally, you haven't moved an inch.

Everything is easy. Until you try to do it, and discover that most things are hard.

For example, I can pretty much guarantee you that building Android Auto is "easy" at a high level. All you do is integrate with Google's libraries, and maybe we can even be smart about it and build out some abstraction so that we don't have to write code twice between CarPlay and AA; seems trivial. But wait, they use totally different languages and totally different data structures, so nix that. Crap, what do you mean Google just changed everything out from under me again? You're telling me the last two months of work is trash because of some external factor I had zero control over? Ugh, and now there's an urgent Linux vulnerability that requires us to patch all our servers immediately and drop what we're doing? Okay, we'll fix it tomorrow - crap, isn't tomorrow that investor meeting I have to whip up that presentation on that thing for? GOOGLE CHANGED THAT API AGAIN?! Ugh, fine, let's just get it going, we'll work really hard and crunch this week and next week and bang it out. Crap, I have to code up this referral program thing that Steve wanted, maybe I'll do AA next week. Maybe Google won't change things by then. Maybe nobody gets hit by a bus, either.

Stuff's hard. Software is, at it's core, a creative exercise, not an implementation exercise. The implementation takes relatively no time, compared to figuring out how to build a thing. That's the hard part.

[edit] Sorry for the rant. It's not you. I've just had it with the 'ugh software people should just do more, better, faster' rhetoric lol

 

[momo3605]

I feel the same way. Transitioning from start to stop or stop to start in the Lucid is quite a bit different than other (automatic) cars I've driven. One thing they could consider would be to have a map from make/model/year of car to driving settings, so the car could be configured to be as much like the previous vehicle as possible, with information about how the car will be different (IE, lucid can't move the column shifter to the center console via software). They could also note where the settings reduce efficiency or experience, and suggest a plan to 'retrain'. This would both help drivers transition to the Lucid and help Lucid find blind spots in its current configuration. For instance, the signal indicator cancel behavior might have been addressed long before the recent patch.

I don’t understand why the current offerings don’t suffice. You have 3 options. Creep is like a traditional automatic ICE car, roll is like a manual/neutral, and Hold is the newer EV-centric way that even newer ICE cars have started implementing. What other options do you need?

Or is the issue more about regen and having the car slow down instead of coast like a traditional automatic ICE car? Of course you can’t turn off regen in the lucid

 

[new owner]

momo3605 I agree you have simply stated the options. I initially used creep when first got my Air but I like hold because it keeps me from almost never touching the brake pedal
Roll however has a purpose I believe when going thru a car wash with the track that requires being in neutral? I personally only go to the touch less where car just sits idle in hold or park

 

[Lucken]

momo3605 I agree you have simply stated the options. I initially used creep when first got my Air but I like hold because it keeps me from almost never touching the brake pedal
Roll however has a purpose I believe when going thru a car wash with the track that requires being in neutral? I personally only go to the touch less where car just sits idle in hold or park

Actually going through an automatic car wash with the Lucid is easy. Regardless of what setting you have regen in (as well as brake hold) you simply shift to neutral as you would with any ICE vehicle. EZPZ

Such is not the case with my BMW i4. Shifting to neutral and leaving regen on high results in a potential disaster. I found that out the hard way the first time I took it to the car wash. As soon as I got onto the track and put the car in neutral, the car began to kick & buck. Only when I turned the regen to low, did the car roll smoothly. Fortunately there was no damage, but it was quite scary and I felt like an idiot.

 

[new owner]

Thanks Lucken for the clarification
Got it

 

[pyle112]

I don’t understand why the current offerings don’t suffice. You have 3 options. Creep is like a traditional automatic ICE car, roll is like a manual/neutral, and Hold is the newer EV-centric way that even newer ICE cars have started implementing. What other options do you need?

Or is the issue more about regen and having the car slow down instead of coast like a traditional automatic ICE car? Of course you can’t turn off regen in the lucid

Maybe my creep is buggy, but if I raise my foot off the break in an ice car that does not have HOLD engaged, it will roll forward in D or reverse in R. In the lucid, HOLD is always engaged, so if I raise my foot off the brake I need to tap the accelerator to move forward or backwards. Since accepting delivery a week ago I haven't heard from service to address any of my initial issues or schedule someone to come help with my vehicle concerns.

 

[Bobby]

Maybe my creep is buggy, but if I raise my foot off the break in an ice car that does not have HOLD engaged, it will roll forward in D or reverse in R. In the lucid, HOLD is always engaged, so if I raise my foot off the brake I need to tap the accelerator to move forward or backwards. Since accepting delivery a week ago I haven't heard from service to address any of my initial issues or schedule someone to come help with my vehicle concerns.

Best bet: HOLD on, CREEP off. Then practice getting better at 1 foot driving.

 

[hydbob]

Maybe my creep is buggy, but if I raise my foot off the break in an ice car that does not have HOLD engaged, it will roll forward in D or reverse in R. In the lucid, HOLD is always engaged, so if I raise my foot off the brake I need to tap the accelerator to move forward or backwards. Since accepting delivery a week ago I haven't heard from service to address any of my initial issues or schedule someone to come help with my vehicle concerns.

If you want your car to behave like an ICE car put roll on and creep on. I don't understand what you are asking honestly

 

[pyle112]

If you want your car to behave like an ICE car put roll on and creep on. I don't understand what you are asking honestly

for me ROLL on and CREEP on doesn't actually move the car forward when you let go of the brake, it just rolls in the direction of the street slope which leads me to believe CREEP isn't actually working in my lucid.

 

[hydbob]

for me ROLL on and CREEP on doesn't actually move the car forward when you let go of the brake, it just rolls in the direction of the street slope which leads me to believe CREEP isn't actually working in my lucid.

Creep needs to be activated by pressing the accelerator. Once you do it'll move in the direction of your selected drive UNLESS you are on a slope. In that case, depending on the slope, if your car is in DRIVE, the car MAY move backwards if the force of gravity overcomes the creep. Vice versa also holds true.

 

[borski]

Creep needs to be activated by pressing the accelerator. Once you do it'll move in the direction of your selected drive UNLESS you are on a slope. In that case, depending on the slope, if your car is in DRIVE, the car MAY move backwards if the force of gravity overcomes the creep. Vice versa also holds true.

This is also how manual transmissions work. An EV is more like a manual transmission from that perspective.