These Are The Real Tesla Killers

[DJL]

I have previous stated in other posts that Lucid really is not the Tesla Killer that the media is trying to make it out to be. I am no genius in making this statement, I am only reiterating what Lucid’s CEO has stated. Lucid is going after the high end, luxury European auto makers such as Audi, Mercedes and BMW in trying to establish its branding. Someday in the future, he states that Lucid will add to its fleet a lower end car in which the mainstream American car buyer can afford. Since Tesla does not go after the high end luxury market, Lucid and Tesla really market different segments of the market.
Recently, the real Tesla killers have reared their “ugly” heads and, in my humble opinion, are aiming to cut the legs off of Tesla by offering some pretty remarkable EVs at significantly less price and with fewer quality-build issues. Plus, they are doing this at a time that Tesla has just announce more price increases for it lower end vehicles.

The recent e-issue of Consumer Reports has an article on the recent price cuts that a number of legacy auto makers have made to their EVs. Since to read this article may require a subscription, I will share a few of the salient paragraphs it contains instead of posting a link to it.

CR writes:
“The cost for joining the electric car revolution is less now than ever before, since Chevrolet, Hyundai, and Nissan lowered prices on their entry-level models. Competition is driving this move, with the latest crop of electric vehicles coming in around $45,000—like the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, Toyota bZ4X, and Volkswagen ID.4. This means that the previous-generation models that once had prices around $40,000 need adjustments because they don’t have the power, range, size, and panache of the latest EVs.”

Later on, the article continues with:
“Chevrolet just released pricing for its 2023 Bolt and Bolt EUV, reflecting a drop of $5,900 and $6,300 per model. This brings the starting price to $26,595 and $28,195, respectively. (That’s about $10,000 less than the Bolt from five years ago.)”

Finally, I share a third paragraph which states:
“The Hyundai Kona Electric saw its base price lower from $37,390 to $34,000 for the 2022 model year, as newer Hyundai/Kia EVs charged to dealerships. The Nissan Leaf dropped from $31,670 to $27,400 for 2022, and it streamlined from five trims to two, the S and SV Plus, for 2023.”

While I have never ridden in any Tesla, I have driven a 2022 KIA EV6 - GT Line First Edition and I must say, it is very impressive on many different levels. While costing just under $60k, I believe it may turn some of the people contemplating buying a Telsa 3. Meanwhile, much of the lower cost segment of the market may be captured by those legacy auto makers mentioned above.

 

[HC_79]

I still don't think Lucid knows what it wants to be and Peter isn't doing.a good job at selling it either in my opinion. What Luxury car is 800+ HP? You can see Audi, Mercedes, BMW don't give a damn about 0-60 times but who does? Tesla! So Lucid played a very interesting game when they were saying we're not going after Tesla we're going after Mercedes, Audi, etc. but it seems they want to be both and when you want to be both things start to go wrong because they're not focusing their attention on one thing but two and compromises happen.

Don't get me wrong, I love my car but I think Lucid has missed the mark when it comes to the expectations of Luxury buyers. The fact the car was delivered without lane centering \ guidance is an embarrassment when the 2021 Hyundai Kona I have has it and the car was only $26K. Luxury owners expect things to work and Lucid has missed the mark big time with the software issues many new owners experienced and promised features missing.

Tesla is in a league of its own and i'm sick and tired of seeing "this is the next Tesla killer" when it's an SUV that goes 250 miles compared to the Tesla that goes 300+ miles. Traditional automakers may know how to mass produce and build quality cars but they can't make an efficient car to save themselves. Lucid may be a technical beast under the hood but I don't think luxury owners really care about that. It's all about the tech the see and the comfort they feel.

I honestly believe Lucid was going after Tesla to take on the Model S and X to one up them on quality with the range and disguised the messaging as going after Mercedes, etc. to avoid noise coming from Elon as they tried to launch the car. From production woes to software issues, if Peter was trying to stick his finger up at Elon then at this point in time, he's failed. Time will tell if Lucid can right itself and get back on track.

 

[LCIDdreams]

I don’t understand the press’ addiction to the term “Tesla Killer”. It seems to just be used by them as a synonym for “electric car” at this point.

Do they truly think a specific car coming to market will make Tesla obsolete? Do they somehow see the EV market as a zero sum game (currently at <3% of vehicle sales but growing in a S-curve with an endpoint that is probably pretty close to 100%)?

 

[DJL]

I still don't think Lucid knows what it wants to be and Peter isn't doing.a good job at selling it either in my opinion. What Luxury car is 800+ HP? You can see Audi, Mercedes, BMW don't give a damn about 0-60 times but who does? Tesla! So Lucid played a very interesting game when they were saying we're not going after Tesla we're going after Mercedes, Audi, etc. but it seems they want to be both and when you want to be both things start to go wrong because they're not focusing their attention on one thing but two and compromises happen.

Don't get me wrong, I love my car but I think Lucid has missed the mark when it comes to the expectations of Luxury buyers. The fact the car was delivered without lane centering \ guidance is an embarrassment when the 2021 Hyundai Kona I have has it and the car was only $26K. Luxury owners expect things to work and Lucid has missed the mark big time with the software issues many new owners experienced and promised features missing.

Tesla is in a league of its own and i'm sick and tired of seeing "this is the next Tesla killer" when it's an SUV that goes 250 miles compared to the Tesla that goes 300+ miles. Traditional automakers may know how to mass produce and build quality cars but they can't make an efficient car to save themselves. Lucid may be a technical beast under the hood but I don't think luxury owners really care about that. It's all about the tech the see and the comfort they feel.

I honestly believe Lucid was going after Tesla to take on the Model S and X to one up them on quality with the range and disguised the messaging as going after Mercedes, etc. to avoid noise coming from Elon as they tried to launch the car. From production woes to software issues, if Peter was trying to stick his finger up at Elon then at this point in time, he's failed. Time will tell if Lucid can right itself and get back on track.

An interesting perspective and you may be correct. Time will tell. Regarding startup issues, from the research and readings I have done, I believe Tesla really struggled for a number of years before it found its legs and started ramping up production numbers and issuing better software packages. Plus, after reading a number of postings in this forum from Tesla owners, it sounds like Telsa has changed it philosophy regarding service and customer support. I really hope that Lucid does do the same in the future. While Lucid has had its woes and will continue to have issues, I think they have learned a lot from the mistakes that Tesla made and are in a more advance state in this stage of the game. Plus, it helps to have deep pockets heavily invested in Lucid's sucess. Despite all of this, Telsa is the king of EVs and will remain so until the legacy auto makers really start to ramp up production which may take another year or two. The market place is going to get very, very competitive...

 

[LCIDdreams]

The market place is going to get very, very competitive...

I think the pure-EV makers (really just Lucid, Rivian, Tesla in US so far) have an advantage in that their addressable market, EVs, is going to be growing quickly for next couple of decades. Legacy Automakers’ addressable market is all vehicles. That market is not growing plus they have more competition, the pure-EV makers, taking away their market share.

 

[Pragmatic]

The legacy automakers have two problems: they are not putting sufficient effort into designing EVs and they are not sure how profitable EVs will become. With each generation they release they are correcting each of these problems. Look at Hyundia's Kona and compare it to the Ioniq-5. They have corrected the design issues but they are skimping on production capacity because they are still seeing where the market is headed. Same with Nissan and the Leaf and the Ayria. These are large ships that only slowly change direction. We may wish they could turn on a dime but they can't. I'm sure by later in this decade there will be several compelling EVs offered by the legacy automakers.

 

[Coltonw011]

I think it’s also interesting to note that Lucid will be going into the battery storage game as well
I loved my MS, but I love my Lucid more. And to @HC_79 point, 800 hp is overkill but awesome. I just cared about a more luxurious interior and range! They nailed both imo..interesting to see how they develop.

 

[Thehack]

I think it’s also interesting to note that Lucid will be going into the battery storage game as well
I loved my MS, but I love my Lucid more. And to @HC_79 point, 800 hp is overkill but awesome. I just cared about a more luxurious interior and range! They nailed both imo..interesting to see how they develop.

If I could like this quote more than once I would... These are the TWO biggest contributors to my reservation and ultimate purchase... I just cannot wait.

 

[HC_79]

800 hp is overkill but awesome

I agree

Hopefully others do as well but I guess the point I was getting at is we are paying for that 800hp. As much as i'm not a fan of the EQS it has alot more bells and whistles and is cheaper. The EQE seems to be taking the same approach so if Lucid is trying to directly compete with these It's going to be interesting to see what path people choose. You look at the features list on an EQS compared to a Lucid and it's probably got 10 times more pointless things than the Lucid and is cheaper (markups aside).

My concern is more on the Pure and it's price point to be honest, it seems to offer basic stuff compared to its competitors so Lucid seems to be all in on people sacrificing features for the range. It's a much easier argument for them to say "we're more luxury than Tesla". If Lucid gets its software better then the car is targeting Model S and X owners not Mercedes, Audi and BMW. Let's hope i'm wrong.

 

[MikeTz]

Tesla reminds me of the commercial .... "look at all the stuff my new phone has !!! ... is it an Iphone?... no it isn't ... I don't want it". What lucid has over everyone else is the driving experience. If you love driving, Lucid and Porsche are the only options. If you need more space, then there is only one option. Lucid needs to start tooting the "driving dynamics" attributes of the car above all other. As more high power EV stations are built the range advantage and the efficiency number is going to become a thing of the past. Speaking of driving dynamics ... When I am driving, I don't want to have to touch any screen for more than once to get the information I need. ICE sporty cars, had tach, amp, volts, temp, oil pressure, and oil temp in front of your face. Gave you all the information you needed at a glance. Now there is something on the left screen, something on the middle screen, something on the right screen and something on the "me too Tesla" Large screen. The Lucid can rise to the top of the EV world but not until a major Software rethink.

 

[Ksa23]

I don’t understand the press’ addiction to the term “Tesla Killer”. It seems to just be used by them as a synonym for “electric car” at this point.

Just typical click-bait, similar to how "iPhone Killer" was a thing once Apple started getting real smartphone competition in the early 2010's. Once Lucid and other EV's are more mainstream, I bet the media will start with "ICE Killers" (internal combustion engine)

 

[Steveinarizona]

I agree

Hopefully others do as well but I guess the point I was getting at is we are paying for that 800hp. As much as i'm not a fan of the EQS it has alot more bells and whistles and is cheaper. The EQE seems to be taking the same approach so if Lucid is trying to directly compete with these It's going to be interesting to see what path people choose. You look at the features list on an EQS compared to a Lucid and it's probably got 10 times more pointless things than the Lucid and is cheaper (markups aside).

My concern is more on the Pure and it's price point to be honest, it seems to offer basic stuff compared to its competitors so Lucid seems to be all in on people sacrificing features for the range. It's a much easier argument for them to say "we're more luxury than Tesla". If Lucid gets its software better then the car is targeting Model S and X owners not Mercedes, Audi and BMW. Let's hope i'm wrong.

EQS is only cheaper if (1) the dealer isn't marking it up and (2) it is the base model which has very limited HP (remember that one is moving a lot of weight in a BEV). Jack up the HP to near the Lucid and the EQS is more expensive.

 

[KySerenity]

Tesla reminds me of the commercial .... "look at all the stuff my new phone has !!! ... is it an Iphone?... no it isn't ... I don't want it". What lucid has over everyone else is the driving experience. If you love driving, Lucid and Porsche are the only options. If you need more space, then there is only one option. Lucid needs to start tooting the "driving dynamics" attributes of the car above all other. As more high power EV stations are built the range advantage and the efficiency number is going to become a thing of the past. Speaking of driving dynamics ... When I am driving, I don't want to have to touch any screen for more than once to get the information I need. ICE sporty cars, had tach, amp, volts, temp, oil pressure, and oil temp in front of your face. Gave you all the information you needed at a glance. Now there is something on the left screen, something on the middle screen, something on the right screen and something on the "me too Tesla" Large screen. The Lucid can rise to the top of the EV world but not until a major Software rethink.

I have to disagree with the comment that more EV stations will decrease the desire for greater range. My 2016 Model S 90D currently has 275 miles of range. When I travel on a long trip such as Lexington to Destin FL, my range requires 4-5 stops at Tesla superchargers, prolongs the trip and aggravates the wife. For this reason, the Sienna remains the road car when the wife joins me. With 400-500 range, this could be cut down to a couple of stops, just about the same that my bladder mandates a stop. I won’t give up my Model S for anything with less than 400 miles of range.

 

[MikeTz]

Wait until you get closer to my age, when driving for three hours without a stop becomes a challenge. BTW I was talking about range anxiety.

 

[Disco Marathon]

Is Tesla its own killer? I always thought part of Tesla's brand was the most performance for the price. A grey MS LR w/ 19" wheels + FSD in summer of 2020 was $86k. Say what you will about the build, interior trappings, etc., that is a lot of performance for the price. Today the same car is $120k - a 40% increase in two years! At that price, other options start to look more attractive.

 

[GEWC]

Is Tesla its own killer? I always thought part of Tesla's brand was the most performance for the price. A grey MS LR w/ 19" wheels + FSD in summer of 2020 was $86k. Say what you will about the build, interior trappings, etc., that is a lot of performance for the price. Today the same car is $120k - a 40% increase in two years! At that price, other options start to look more attractive.

I was joking last night that the real Tesla killer is going to be the lack of color changes from year to year. There used to be more difference - my old one is green - though the new trim helps a bit. There has to be a point where the thought of figuring out which of the 17 white 3s in the parking lot is yours goes past annoyance to inconvenience. It's not finding your car in a Saudi parking lot where every single car is white level of difficulty, but still.

 

[joec]

I was joking last night that the real Tesla killer is going to be the lack of color changes from year to year. There used to be more difference - my old one is green - though the new trim helps a bit. There has to be a point where the thought of figuring out which of the 17 white 3s in the parking lot is yours goes past annoyance to inconvenience. It's not finding your car in a Saudi parking lot where every single car is white level of difficulty, but still.

I still find it odd how little Tesla has changed its models from year to year. I can’t think of another car company that leaves the body style exactly the same for a decade. Even Porsche, with the 911, keeps tweaking.

On the one hand, I suppose it helps with resale value. On the other hand, yeah. I’m a little tired of looking at the same old Model S.

I wonder how Lucid will handle this over time?

 

[Sam6062]

I think it’s also interesting to note that Lucid will be going into the battery storage game as well
I loved my MS, but I love my Lucid more. And to @HC_79 point, 800 hp is overkill but awesome. I just cared about a more luxurious interior and range! They nailed both imo..interesting to see how they develop.

More luxurious compared to Who, Tesla?

 

[Coltonw011]

More luxurious compared to Who, Tesla?

Yes, that was my current vehicle when I was hunting for a new, longer range, higher luxury EV and stumbled across Lucid.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I still find it odd how little Tesla has changed its models from year to year. I can’t think of another car company that leaves the body style exactly the same for a decade. Even Porsche, with the 911, keeps tweaking.

On the one hand, I suppose it helps with resale value. On the other hand, yeah. I’m a little tired of looking at the same old Model S.

I wonder how Lucid will handle this over time?

Classic car don’t change much and retain high resale value.

Another classic is Jeep Wrangler, from 1943 to 2022, it only went thru 4 changes. It is iconic just as Volkswagen Beetle.