Ready, set, go!

[Demosthenes]

So I happened to plug in at the exact same time with a VW ID4 at two EA 350 stalls side by side and our cars happened to be at the same SOC to start with. So unbeknownst to my unsuspecting opponent, I Charge Raced them. These are my 100% unscientific comparison results:

Lucid AGT
Starting SOC: 15%
Ending SOC: 81%
Total energy delivered: 78 kWh
Total time charged: 40 min
Total cost of charging: 0

VW ID4
Starting SOC: 15%
Ending SOC (at 40 min when I left - they kept charging beyond): 83%
Total energy delivered 51 kWh
Total time charged: 40 min
Total cost of charging: 0

I was beating the stuffing out of them in the early going with 250+ charge speeds versus their paltry 50-60. But alas those sweet moments were all too brief. And at the end, we both gained the same percentage SOC although of course the lucid got significantly more absolute energy uptake.

I don’t know anything about electricity or physics so this comparison might be complete nonsense. But there it is!

 

[hydbob]

So I happened to plug in at the exact same time with a VW ID4 at two EA 350 stalls side by side and our cars happened to be at the same SOC to start with. So unbeknownst to my unsuspecting opponent, I Charge Raced them. These are my 100% unscientific comparison results:

Lucid AGT
Starting SOC: 15%
Ending SOC: 81%
Total energy delivered: 78 kWh
Total time charged: 40 min
Total cost of charging: 0

VW ID4
Starting SOC: 15%
Ending SOC (at 40 min when I left - they kept charging beyond): 83%
Total energy delivered 51 kWh
Total time charged: 40 min
Total cost of charging: 0

I was beating the stuffing out of them in the early going with 250+ charge speeds versus their paltry 50-60. But alas those sweet moments were all too brief. And at the end, we both gained the same percentage SOC although of course the lucid got significantly more absolute energy uptake.

I don’t know anything about electricity or physics so this comparison might be complete nonsense. But there it is!

A LOT of people only compare SOC% and not kwh.

 

[Demosthenes]

A LOT of people only compare SOC% and not kwh.

I suppose I could see that making sense in a practical way. No matter what car one drives, one may be following the ‘charge to 80%’ rule for battery health which means practically speaking the ID4 charges just as fast as the lucid AGT based on my n=1 high quality study. But the lucid will then end up going much further on that charge presumably. Still a lucid win! I’m a lucid owner on a lucid form

 

[Adnillien]

This is a very nice comparison. The most important metric to me is how many miles you can go on that 40 minute charge. In your example using a conservative 3.5 mi/kWhr for AGT and using ID4 EPA of 3.05 mi/kWhr

Lucid 78 kWhr * 3.6 = 280 miles
ID4 51kWhr * 3.05 m/kWhr = 156 miles

The only problem with the above is that it is based on kWhr dispensed not what actually what made it to the battery. So using change in SOC and battery size, we get:

Lucid (81%-15%)*112kWhr = 74 kWhr into the battery or 266 miles added
ID4 (83%-15%)*82kWhr = 56 kWhr into the battery or 170 miles added

Bottom line is that the Lucid can go almost 100 miles more in that 40 minute charge than the ID4.

 

[joec]

Yep. Reminds me of my recent trip down to Santa Fe. ID.4 blew past me on the highway as I was wisely keeping it under 80 in the right lane. Later on, when I caught up to him at the charger, he ended up staying longer than me in order to charge up to 90% while I stopped at 80. AND he had another stop planned before he got to the city, while I was going to easily sail into town with more than 20% to spare.

It’s all about the distance.

 

[Demosthenes]

This is a very nice comparison. The most important metric to me is how many miles you can go on that 40 minute charge. In your example using a conservative 3.5 mi/kWhr for AGT and using ID4 EPA of 3.05 mi/kWhr

Lucid 78 kWhr * 3.6 = 280 miles
ID4 51kWhr * 3.05 m/kWhr = 156 miles

The only problem with the above is that it is based on kWhr dispensed not what actually what made it to the battery. So using change in SOC and battery size, we get:

Lucid (81%-15%)*112kWhr = 74 kWhr into the battery or 266 miles added
ID4 (83%-15%)*82kWhr = 56 kWhr into the battery or 170 miles added

Bottom line is that the Lucid can go almost 100 miles more in that 40 minute charge than the ID4.

Love this analysis TY

Put it that way, it does sound like a really significant and worthwhile practical advantage for the lucid. At least in the setting of continuous driving distances of >156 miles.

 

[xponents]

Yep. Reminds me of my recent trip down to Santa Fe. ID.4 blew past me on the highway as I was wisely keeping it under 80 in the right lane. Later on, when I caught up to him at the charger, he ended up staying longer than me in order to charge up to 90% while I stopped at 80. AND he had another stop planned before he got to the city, while I was going to easily sail into town with more than 20% to spare.

It’s all about the distance.

Planning charging is like planning a strategy for a F1 team. There are multiple "good" ways, but one will always end up on top.

For the Lucid, frequent stops at low SOC's will be far better than one stop charging all the way to 80. Or at least I think so?

And the analysis on this thread is GREAT! Peter really was right, more efficiency benefits EVERY part of the car, charging, weight, etc..

 

[Daniel2022AT]

I see a lot of ID.4’s at EA charging sites. My observation is due to much lower range, these folks are forced to charge up to 95% SOC or higher. We all know how much charging slows down at high SOC. So in addition to lower range and slower absolute charging speed the average time spent charging is much longer too.

 

[Demosthenes]

Planning charging is like planning a strategy for a F1 team. There are multiple "good" ways, but one will always end up on top.

For the Lucid, frequent stops at low SOC's will be far better than one stop charging all the way to 80. Or at least I think so?

And the analysis on this thread is GREAT! Peter really was right, more efficiency benefits EVERY part of the car, charging, weight, etc..

Yeah I assume frequent stops at low SOC and charging up to some mid range number would be most efficient and the fastest way to get from point A to B but I dunno. Maybe those more mathematically inclined amongst us could figure out a simple formula given a few assumptions that could pinpoint the range of charging targets that would be ‘best’ for any given length of planned trip

 

[joec]

It gets further complicated because chargers aren’t simply anywhere we want them to be. So you have to make it to one at the correct state of charge. And if that charger is five minutes from the highway exit, you just lost ten minutes before you even start charging.

 

[joec]

Then you have to factor in the possibility that a charger might be in use, not functioning. Etc. more chargers = more risk of these sorts of issues.

Plus, I find stopping more often, even if I’m spending less time technically at each, feels like I’m spending more time charging, even if I’m not.

 

[joec]

So for me, part of “planning” for a road trip includes not having to make it to where I’m going at a specific time. Leave with hours to spare, so you relieve the anxiety if complications arise. It’s not a race. The fun is in the journey.

 

[xponents]

Then you have to factor in the possibility that a charger might be in use, not functioning. Etc. more chargers = more risk of these sorts of issues.

Plus, I find stopping more often, even if I’m spending less time technically at each, feels like I’m spending more time charging, even if I’m not.

Fair enough, but if you do find something to do in those quick stops, maybe that would negate the issue? Like a mall, gym, park, etc.

But I do wish there was some sort of formula or set of formula for this!

 

[borski]

But I do wish there was some sort of formula or set of formula for this!

Make one! Build it, and we’ll all use it. Can probably figure out a first order approximation with a decent bit of spreadsheet work.

 

[chinesejpl]

Planning charging is like planning a strategy for a F1 team. There are multiple "good" ways, but one will always end up on top.

For the Lucid, frequent stops at low SOC's will be far better than one stop charging all the way to 80. Or at least I think so?

And the analysis on this thread is GREAT! Peter really was right, more efficiency benefits EVERY part of the car, charging, weight, etc..

The only caveat I would say with this, based on my personal experience, is that there is "dead" time associated with each charging stop such as detour time and the time it takes for the station to actually begin delivering the charge, which can often be several minutes in and of itself!

 

[xponents]

Make one! Build it, and we’ll all use it. Can probably figure out a first order approximation with a decent bit of spreadsheet work.

We would need some data points first and have to remove variables like elevation!

 

[borski]

We would need some data points first and have to remove variables like elevation!

Make some assumptions for now, and separate them out so you can modify them later.