Road Tripping on EVs and Gas-based Cars, A Perspective.

[xponents]

"Autoevolution" recently published a perspective on road tripping with a Lucid. As someone who has not yet had to pay for Electrify America charging (our Dream has 3 years of free charging), I was surprised by the high energy cost of this trip using EA chargers -- $355 -- compared to an ICE car.

Lucid Air Owner Perfectly Summarizes the Current State of Zero-Emission Road-Tripping

After a lengthy road trip with a great electric vehicle (EV), this guy shared his take on how things went. He even compiled a charging history

www.autoevolution.com

For me, this reinforces my long-held view about EV ownership in the U.S. right now. For someone whose driving is mostly local, takes occasional road trips, and can charge at home, EVs with at least 300 miles of rated range are absolutely the way to go. Annual fuel costs will be much lower in most parts of the country, you are spared dozens of gas station stops over the course of a year, oil changes enter the history books, and you'll have the endless pleasure of smooth, instant-torque power.

However, on road trips even in the best of circumstances, you'll have to stop a bit more often and for longer times to recharge than to fill up a gas tank. You'll be more limited in where you can fuel up. Fueling costs might be higher outside a free-charging plan. And if you want to go roaming the far reaches of Wyoming, Maine, or North Dakota, you'll have to do a lot of careful planning and some praying.

I have friends who are perennially on the fence about whether they should switch to an EV, and they always cite variations of charging arguments: range, finding chargers, what if power goes out, what about hurricane evacuation (Floridians, you understand). When I actually query them item-by-item about the type and distance of driving they actually do in their ICE cars, every one of their arguments fall away. Three have already made the switch to EVs (VW ID.4, Chevy Bolt EUV, Mustang Mach-E), and they have never looked back. A fourth is starting to consider a Lucid Touring.

Honestly, I don't recommend EV's to anybody that doesn't plan to get or cannot get Level Two charging. Thats the main essence of it all to me.. imagine filling your gas car in your house? Level 3 will always be very expensive, and although in NJ it doesn't go to those lengths, it is only about 10-15 dollars for the same amount of miles(dont forget, a gt has more range than most gas cars). Level 2 is dirt cheap compared to gas here, and even in CA L2 will be far cheaper than gas.

And besides, EVs are just better in most ways... smoother, quieter, faster, etc. To tell you the truth, I could care less about harming the environment with my gas car considering cars dont make anywhere near the amount of pollution as other sources do. I put the floor for an EVs price at 40k over the gas equivalent, which does seem expensive, but you have to remember that one, its a better car, and two, gas will likely make the car more expensive, with the engine needing more maintenance adding to that.

 

[xponents]

Honestly, I don't recommend EV's to anybody that doesn't plan to get or cannot get Level Two charging. Thats the main essence of it all to me.. imagine filling your gas car in your house? Level 3 will always be very expensive, and although in NJ it doesn't go to those lengths, it is only about 10-15 dollars for the same amount of miles(dont forget, a gt has more range than most gas cars). Level 2 is dirt cheap compared to gas here, and even in CA L2 will be far cheaper than gas.

And besides, EVs are just better in most ways... smoother, quieter, faster, etc. To tell you the truth, I could care less about harming the environment with my gas car considering cars dont make anywhere near the amount of pollution as other sources do. I put the floor for an EVs price at 40k over the gas equivalent, which does seem expensive, but you have to remember that one, its a better car, and two, gas will likely make the car more expensive, with the engine needing more maintenance adding to that.

Just for a price reference, here is a graph from afdc.energy.gov, which illustrates the long term price differences between cars. This reflects my family's (quite average) use cases.

All of the models presented are at their base models, with base prices. The 5 series is the exterior size equivalent, while the 7 series is what the interior of the Lucid achieves in terms of size. As you can see, it is not even close and the Lucid ends up being cheaper than the 5 series at 10.5 years. And this is for a 5 series with the 30i engine, weak in comparison to the Lucid's instant torque and respectable horsepower. The 7 series is not even in the price discussion at all, despite being identically sized to the Lucid. I do concede it has more luxury than a pure, depending on what you define as luxury though..

 

[hmp10]

To tell you the truth, I could care less about harming the environment with my gas car considering cars dont make anywhere near the amount of pollution as other sources do.

I worry more about reducing oil dependence than pollution, although I do remember the L.A. smog clouds of yesteryear.

However, I'm disgustingly hypocritical, with a lifetime of buying the most powerful ICE cars I could get my hands on. There are many reasons I love our Lucid, but at the end of the day . . . it's all about them electric motors, baby.

 

[xponents]

I worry more about reducing oil dependence than pollution, although I do remember the L.A. smog clouds of yesteryear.

However, I'm disgustingly hypocritical, with a lifetime of buying the most powerful ICE cars I could get my hands on. There are many reasons I love our Lucid, but at the end of the day . . . it's all about them electric motors, baby.

Oil dependence could quite easily be replaced with more eco friendly fuels, like biofuels(with which porsche is having great success with, a 911 made it up a mountain with limited airflow using that) or even E85, which is actually common among high performance drag cars(and the Dodge Demon series), in addition to many american cars having flex-fuel capability. To me, if people really cared about not having much oil dependence instead of pollution, we would already be on efuels instead of EVs... which hasn't been the case so far.

Think about it this way: disregarding pollution and oil dependence, if the Lucid had an engine, would any of its merits be possible? The incredibly aerodynamic design, the amazing rear seat space, the low center of gravity, the frunk that when combined with the trunk beats most midsize SUV's, and the amazing, smooth power that is ready at any instant? EVs aren't just about the enviromnent like the media thinks, they are simply BETTER as you said!

And besides, back then good EVs didnt exist. You switched to a model s only 2 years after it came out, after all! Even your R8 isnt far behind my Honda accord in terms of co2 emissions, which I consider good

 

[DeaneG]

I wonder if the article's quoted $355 energy cost at EA was EA's quoted rack rate, or the lower cost per kWh if you pay EA $7 for a one-month Pass+ membership covering your travel period.

 

[BS8899]

I wonder if the article's quoted $355 energy cost at EA was EA's quoted rack rate, or the lower cost per kWh if you pay EA $7 for a one-month Pass+ membership covering your travel period.

If you take the 1,800 miles and divide it by the avg miles/kWh (say 3 miles/kWh at highway speed), you get ~60 cents/kWh. This is probably closer to the EA "rack rate". As I recall, EA has regional pricing. Therefore, to get a more accurate picture, you will have to map out his route and the corresponding EA charges.

As for the EA "PASS or PASS+" rates, if you typically charge at home (L2), you will have to figure in the costs of the PASS/PASS+.

So, I think the $355 is not that far off.

On my last trip along I5 and I10, in CA, the EA retail charge is between 56 cents and 65 cents per kWh.

 

[DeaneG]

...As for the EA "PASS or PASS+" rates, if you typically charge at home (L2), you will have to figure in the costs of the PASS/PASS+....

For road trips in our other CCS car, I paid $7 for Pass+ just before a road trip, and cancelled Pass+ when I returned home. No need to keep it active all year.

 

[CLTGT]

Love driving my Lucid, but will take my wife's ICE SUV on any trip over 4 hours here in the southeast. It's just easier and less stressful. I overpaid for the Lucid by a pretty big margin, the cost of gas is not my worry.

 

[momo3605]

Respectable opinion! I do hope the Saudi's, in partnership with Lucid, make their own ev charging network which would result in more reliability and dominance akin to their petrol success! It's a sad thing that PHEVs arent being made more with companies just directly jumping to EV, which I think is wrong. The Ramcharger(yes, that ram 1500) seems to be the PERFECT example of this, as it has the advantages of EV's(instatorque, speed, efficiency) with the practicality of a series hybrid! How I wish GM didn't abandon the Volt with that beautiful voltec powertrain.. it had so much promise.

Your wish might be coming true! GM back tracking on EVs apparently

GM’s Going To Build Hybrids For Consumers Who Don’t Want EVs (jalopnik.com)

 

[xponents]

Your wish might be coming true! GM back tracking on EVs apparently

GM’s Going To Build Hybrids For Consumers Who Don’t Want EVs (jalopnik.com)

Yup, read that, but from what I would guess it would be the "normal" phev instead of a series hybrid, where the gas generator powers the motors and NOTHING else.. what a shame they let go of Voltec!

And with how the GM delays are going, I don't expect much from them. I like the equinox ev and would consider it as my first car, but with how horrible their delays are im questioning if they can even get it out by then

 

[hmp10]

Your wish might be coming true! GM back tracking on EVs apparently

GM’s Going To Build Hybrids For Consumers Who Don’t Want EVs (jalopnik.com)

I'm not sure what GM will end up doing or not doing, and they probably aren't, either. However, this article says GM remains committed to producing only zero-emission light-duty vehicles (i. e., BEVs) by 2035 and will turn to PHEVs only as a transitional measure in the interim.

 

[momo3605]

I'm not sure what GM will end up doing or not doing, and they probably aren't, either. However, this article says GM remains committed to producing only zero-emission light-duty vehicles (i. e., BEVs) by 2035 and will turn to PHEVs only as a transitional measure in the interim.

Yup agreed, not to mention GMs EV lineup is incredibly weaksauce at the moment. The Bolt which sold great...they've killed, and what do they have now? The Blazer EV which is crazy overpriced. The Lyriq, but who buys cadillacs in volume? And the Hummer EV, which sold like 13 units last quarter?

Silverado EV and Equinox haven't even been released yet. So who knows, GM is probably just shooting themselves in the foot with a stupid EV lineup as well.

 

[xponents]

Yup agreed, not to mention GMs EV lineup is incredibly weaksauce at the moment. The Bolt which sold great...they've killed, and what do they have now? The Blazer EV which is crazy overpriced. The Lyriq, but who buys cadillacs in volume? And the Hummer EV, which sold like 13 units last quarter?

Silverado EV and Equinox haven't even been released yet. So who knows, GM is probably just shooting themselves in the foot with a stupid EV lineup as well.

GM when they make the blazer EV literally the same price as the lyriq: Nooo why isnt it selling?

 

[hmp10]

Yup agreed, not to mention GMs EV lineup is incredibly weaksauce at the moment. The Bolt which sold great...they've killed, and what do they have now? The Blazer EV which is crazy overpriced. The Lyriq, but who buys cadillacs in volume? And the Hummer EV, which sold like 13 units last quarter?

Silverado EV and Equinox haven't even been released yet. So who knows, GM is probably just shooting themselves in the foot with a stupid EV lineup as well.

A friend has a Bolt EUV which he loves and had to shop state-wide to find, as they were sold even before coming off the trucks at most dealers. The reasoning behind GM's decision to discontinue it is a murky as most of their other marketing moves. I have to say, though, that we see loads of Cadillacs in Naples, including quite a few Lyrics.

What's weirdest to me is the $300,000-plus Celestiq. If this bizarre exercise is meant to restore Cadillac's pre-WWII reputation as the standard of the world, well . . . what can I say?

 

[momo3605]

A friend has a Bolt EUV which he loves and had to shop state-wide to find, as they were sold even before coming off the trucks at most dealers. The reasoning behind GM's decision to discontinue it is a murky as most of their other marketing moves. I have to say, though, that we see loads of Cadillacs in Naples, including quite a few Lyrics.

What's weirdest to me is the $300,000-plus Celestiq. If this bizarre exercise is meant to restore Cadillac's pre-WWII reputation as the standard of the world, well . . . what can I say?

Oh yea! And not to mention the Escalade IQ starting at ONLY $130k

 

[TFCooper]

I was thinking of taking a road trip to Bishop CA / Lone Pine / Alabama Hills / Death Valley, and just noticed that It isn't really possible in my GT.

In early January I rented a Model Y LR and drove from Santa Rosa to Las Vegas and Death Valley. No problem charging (Superchargers) except at Death Valley. The Inn at Furnace Creek has two Level 2 chargers, but both were/are INOP. The Ranch at Furnace Creek has four Level 2 chargers, but 2 were/are INOP. The front desk at the Inn told me that several Teslas had to be towed out of the valley. (I figure actually flat-bedded.)

The line for the two working chargers at the Ranch was too long (Rivians!), so I drove the 35 miles to Beatty NV, and filled up there. All 8 Superchargers were working, but I noticed that at least one (out of two) of the CCS chargers were not.

Conclusion: Road trips in EVs in remote areas are risky. Particularly if they're not Teslas!

 

[Steveinarizona]

I'm not sure what GM will end up doing or not doing, and they probably aren't, either. However, this article says GM remains committed to producing only zero-emission light-duty vehicles (i. e., BEVs) by 2035 and will turn to PHEVs only as a transitional measure in the interim.

No worry. Wait a week and Mary Barra will change her mind again.

 

[xponents]

No worry. Wait a week and Mary Barra will change her mind again.

Actually, she did about CarPlay already.. the new equinox (gas) with the new infotainment added it back after 6 months of people shitting on them

 

[kpbhat]

Background:

I have two homes, one in Phoenix AZ, and one in Sausalito CA.

Before my (now) 2nd home in Sausalito, I had a 2nd home in Rancho Palos Verdes (LA suburb) when my son was going to school at USC.

I regularly drove the Phoenix to LA route (400 miles, door-to-door) and now, I drive the Phoenix to Sausalito (~780 miles, door-to-door) route.

I am a strong EV advocate. My home in Phoenix has been 100% solar-powered and wired for EV charging since 2008. Sadly, no pure EV was worth buying until the 2020s. I had a gas hybrid (2017 Lexus RX450H), and a 2019 Honda Clarity (PHEV)—now my son’s car. Currently, I drive a 2022 Lucid AGT and a 2023 Rivian R1S.

I want to share my perspectives about taking long road trips in a hybrid, a PHEV, and two different EVs. Nothing profound. Just some real-life experience and numbers for long road trips.



Framing:

I don’t intend to get into debates with anyone about the efficiency (miles/kWh) of EVs and whether it is related to the square or cube of the speed etc., drag coefficients, elevations, etc., etc.. Enough has already been said by many forum participants. Mostly, I loosely follow the speed limit, between 70-80mph on I10 and I5. In short, if you drive fast, your efficiency will be (substantially) lower than EPA and what you wished for. There are a lot of nuances than just the drag factor and the speed. That’s just life! Suck it up!



In Perspective:

• I drove my Lexus on many trips to LA and to Sausalito. In short, the Lexus performed flawlessly over a 6-year period. It gets ~28-29 miles/gallon. Its driver assist functions (lane-keep, adaptive cruise control, etc.) are on par with all the other cars, even though the Lexus is 5-6 years older than the Lucid and the Rivian (see below). I had ZERO problems with the Lexus over a 6+ year ownership. It was a quality car! The trip from Phoenix to LA takes ~6hrs, non-rush hour, 1X gas refill. Trip from Phoenix to Sausalito takes ~11hrs (no traffic), 2X refill. Cost of gas ~$120-140 (@$4.50/gallon avg) for the Phoenix to Sausalito trip, depending on the prevailing gas price.
  
  
• The Honda Clarity is the best-balanced car if you want EV economy/convenience and no anxiety on long drives. It gets 45+ EV miles (rated @47 miles) range when fully charged. I can get around town on EV-only and never needed any gas until I got on the road between LA and Phoenix. There, I used the “mixed mode” with EV and gas. It gives a good balance between power and economy. Trips between Phoenix and LA take 6hr, 2X refill (The Clarity only has a 7-gallon gas tank). The cost of gas is <$55 for the Phoenix to LA trip. I love this car!
  
  
• I bought the Lucid AGT (19” wheels) in Nov 2022, mostly because of the advertised range (EPA range rated at 516 miles). It is the longest-range EV around. In reality, it barely covers the 400-mile distance between Phoenix and LA. True, there are elevation changes (e.g., San Bernadino Mts, etc.) and highway speed (70-80 mph) that wreak havoc on your EPA range. On over 7,000 miles of driving the Lucid, the efficiency is ~3.6 miles/kWh. Pure highway driving (70-80 mph) is ~2.9-3.0 miles/kWh. The cost of charging for the Phoenix to Sausalito trip is ~$150-$160 with Electrify America (@56c/kWh). Free, if you have the free charging.
  
  On the Phoenix to Sausalito trips (780 miles), it takes ~12 hrs. The Lucid can make it with 2 charging stops. But you need to plan carefully. I arrived in Sausalito (from Phoenix) with 2 charging stops, with <5% SoC upon arrival! One good thing about the Lucid is its fast charging, unless your charging rate is limited by Electrify America throttling, and it happens often!
  
  The ground clearance of the Lucid is incredibly low. That’s how they get the drag coefficient down. Mechanically, this car is a thrill to drive. The interior is comfortable. But you must be extremely careful not to go over bumps fast or park too close to the curb! The infotainment and SW are sub-par! The navigation is barely functional and laggy. I must resort to my phone navigation on several occasions.
  
  
• The Rivian is built like a tank! It is rugged and rides high. It is reasonably comfortable, though not luxurious. With the large pack (battery), it is rated at ~321miles (road tires, quad motor). You can squeeze out another 15 miles or so using Conserve mode (FWD only). From my experience and other Rivian owners’ reports, the efficiency is close to 2.3 miles/kWh, higher than the 2.0 miles/kWh claimed by Rivian. It can pull 7,000 lbs and carry a lot of stuff! It rides high and can handle rough roads. The 3rd row seats are not that bad, though I won’t ride the 3rd row for a 13-hour trip. The SW and infotainment system is superior to that in Lucid’s. The navigation is excellent, the destination search is very informative and far better than Lucid’s.
  
  If your trips are less than 550 miles, you can do it with 2 charges. But my Phoenix to Sausalito trip requires 3 (or even 4) charging stops. But if you like rough roads and 4-wheeling, Rivian is the only (EV) way to go!
  
  Rivian has its own “Adventure” charging network. It used to be free (ended Nov 2023). Rivian now charges a uniform 36 cents/kWh. These DC chargers are rated at 300kW. My experience is, that every single one worked, and they don’t throttle, far better than Electrify America! And Rivian charger’s rates (36 cents/kWh) is MUCH cheaper than Electrify America (and Tesla)! On paper, the Rivian does not charge as fast as the Lucid per the charging specs. In reality, the Lucid does charge faster, but the difference in actual charging time is not as big as the specs suggest since the Lucid’s peak charging rate is only relevant over a small SoC range (e.g., from 20% to say 40%). Nevertheless, taking the Rivian on the 780-mile journey will result in an additional stop (or two) and 35 minutes or more. The cost of charging is ~$130-135 (@36c/kWh) if you use all Rivian Adventure charging stations.

In conclusion, if I only have one car and I need to do long-distance driving, I’d opt for a PHEV. The Lucid AGT’s range and fast charging are pluses for long road trips and fun to drive. It saves 1 to 2 charging stops and ~1+hr of travel time on a 780mi trip. But the Lucid has the highest fuel cost (if you must pay for it). The navigation system is quirky, laggy, and almost useless. The Rivian R1S is roomy and rugged. Best for family/dogs, camping, 4-wheeling, and hauling thing. Its range and efficiency are not as good as the AGT. However, the Rivian Adventure chargers are great and about 30-45% cheaper than Electrify America and Tesla chargers. According to Rivian, its Adventure Charging Stations use renewable energy such as solar and wind.

Apologies for the long rambling post. To each his own!

Love to read these experiences. Amazing that you could collate all information from past and put it together.

One point though on charging cost, if you start with full battery charge and return home to a modest battery charge level, pretty good amount of charge would be at your home at lower cost. Not every mile you drive has to be charged at EA. But of course requires careful planning.