NACS Megathread

[Rob Stark]

NACS is not a DCFC miracle, the OutofSpec cross country truck races proved even for the Cybertruck Tesla network is inconsistent in terms of speeds and reliability, and the F150 which can actually use the supercharger network without limited speeds didn’t have an easy time either. I feel like the move to NACS was lateral move as oppose to a forward move. It’s nice we’ll have more options of places to plug into, but I don’t think it’s going to make the DCFC experience any better. The focus should be on efficiency, getting prices of EVs down and building out both L2 and DCFC infrastructure, not making NACS the end all be all. Tesla has failed to roll out V4 anywhere so far, so the fantasy of charging getting closer to an ICE car experience is still a fantasy.

NACS is a better more elegant plug.

Supercharger Network is Superior to every other network.

Silverado EV 3WT has about 50% more battery. That gives it a huge advantage road tripping. This has nothing to do with the charging networks.

Cybetruck is brand new and had specific charging bugs to it that S3XY drivers don't experience. When CT arrives at a Supercharger with less than 1% SoC there was a bug that was identified by Kyle and has now been resolved. Kyle kept running into that bug dure the Coast to Coast Race because he kept arriving at less than 1% SoC.

A new CT software update increases the overall charging speed by ~ 20% in the middle of the curve. More charging speed improvements are likely to come.

The non-Tesla networks have really improved over the last 6 months. No more Signet surge. Gee, I wonder why?

Lucid holding back from adopting NACS would have hurt nobody but Lucid drivers. Lucid doesn't have enough volume to influence Tesla decisions. Once all the major players save Stellantis had adopted NACS for North America the die was cast.

 

[hydbob]

NACS is a better more elegant plug.

Supercharger Network is Superior to every other network.

Silverado EV 3WT has about 50% more battery. That gives it a huge advantage road tripping. This has nothing to do with the charging networks.

Cybetruck is brand new and had specific charging bugs to it that S3XY drivers don't experience. When CT arrives at a Supercharger with less than 1% SoC there was a bug that was identified by Kyle and has now been resolved. Kyle kept running into that bug dure the Coast to Coast Race because he kept arriving at less than 1% SoC.

A new CT software update increases the overall charging speed by ~ 20% in the middle of the curve. More charging speed improvements are likely to come.

The non-Tesla networks have really improved over the last 6 months. No more Signet surge. Gee, I wonder why?

Lucid holding back from adopting NACS would have hurt nobody but Lucid drivers. Lucid doesn't have enough volume to influence Tesla decisions. Once all the major players save Stellantis had adopted NACS for North America the die was cast.

Jury is still out, until more data is available. I would not give NACS the throne just yet until a minimum of 2 years from now. No data to back up many of the theoretical claims that Tesla has put out about the capabilities of the NACS plug. Not to mention that multiple cross country trips by YouTubers has not proven the Tesla SC network to be that far superior over the other mesh of networks either.

All we've seen in head to heads is negligible differences between the SC networks vs others.

 

[scal_air]

Not only that, it's apparently illegal to attempt to use the SCS if you don't drive a Tesla...

A Tesla Fanatic Said He Called The Cops On A Rivian Driver For Using A Supercharger Station

Rivian vehicles are compatible with Tesla's charging network now

jalopnik.com

 

[Snafu]

I drove from NH to Bangor and back this weekend, and there were two ChargePoint 150kW chargers on I-95 at an easy on/easy off Irving gas station/convenience store/Subway location for me to top up on the way home. I'm used to NH, driving miles off my route to a deserted corner of a mall parking lot to wait for stations which may or may not be working. I pulled in, waived my RFID, used a manageable cable, the car started charging as soon as I plugged in, and I put 200 miles on my car in the space of eating a small sub in a clean restaurant with clean bathrooms. (This is similar to many Tesla SC locations.) Why can Maine get this right and NH is such a disaster? CCS works great, if you get to a station run by a network which wants to actually provide quality and reliable service. (Hint: It's not EA)

 

[QuantumFire]

Iirc NACS doesn't support any of the V2H standards. If Lucid builds cars with NACS plus does that mean they will lose the possibility of V2H?

 

[segbrk]

I drove from NH to Bangor and back this weekend, and there were two ChargePoint 150kW chargers on I-95 at an easy on/easy off Irving gas station/convenience store/Subway location for me to top up on the way home. I'm used to NH, driving miles off my route to a deserted corner of a mall parking lot to wait for stations which may or may not be working. I pulled in, waived my RFID, used a manageable cable, the car started charging as soon as I plugged in, and I put 200 miles on my car in the space of eating a small sub in a clean restaurant with clean bathrooms. (This is similar to many Tesla SC locations.) Why can Maine get this right and NH is such a disaster? CCS works great, if you get to a station run by a network which wants to actually provide quality and reliable service. (Hint: It's not EA)

It's not just NH, and it's not just EA, but man is it sporadic. Some EAs in Virginia are right off major highways at Sheetz stations (gas station/convenience stores). Some are, as you said, in an already crowded corner of a Walmart parking lot. While driving through Connecticut for the eclipse, I saw several non-EA fast chargers at roadside rest stops right along with the gas stations. Fantastic! Hopefully the NEVI money starts kicking in and making this better all around. I see a number of the awards in Virginia are at truck stops and convenience stores.

So many EAs are at Walmart or BofA, I assume those companies offered EA cheap space for them. That's nice of them and all, but neither of those are even remotely good places for fast chargers. I charged at a BofA recently and went looking for a bathroom. Walked a quarter mile away to a Walgreens, the only open business I could see, to find that their bathrooms were closed. Why put a DCFC there??

 

[hydbob]

Iirc NACS doesn't support any of the V2H standards. If Lucid builds cars with NACS plus does that mean they will lose the possibility of V2H?

Sure it does, according to Elon!

 

[Unmutual]

It seems that every time Kyle goes to a Supercharger, he needs to put a wet towel around the NACS charging plug to keep it from overheating and slowing the charge, so I do have to wonder about the superiority of that system ....

 

[borski]

It seems that every time Kyle goes to a Supercharger, he needs to put a wet towel around the NACS charging plug to keep it from overheating and slowing the charge, so I do have to wonder about the superiority of that system ....

It’s almost like nobody has ever seen or tested a 1000V supercharger and my bet is we won’t see one this decade at all.

But hey that’s just my hot take

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Here’s what’s cool about Tesla supercharger network: it’s the controlled communication and near interface-less experience, combined with in vehicle software integration with Tesla vehicles. You can see exactly what % you need to charge to to make it to your next stop or what % you need to arrive at to make it to your next destination, you can see how many other drivers are navigating to the charger you’ve chosen so you can estimate how congested it might be, what version the chargers are, etc. CCS integration with vehicle software meanwhile is sloppy and inaccurate thus making charging planning more of a chore. I’ve gotten WAY better speeds on EA than Tesla when renting a Tesla, and plug and charge for me mostly works just as well as Tesla plug and charge with it taking about 20-30 seconds longer for EA to initialize than Tesla. This is what happens when you have a charging network catering to a total of 5 vehicles all made by the same manufacturer, you can control the experience and make it much smoother. It seems to me though that adding CCS vehicles to the mix is making the NACS charging experience really not much better than EA, you just don’t have to do as much work to plan successful charging.

 

[Greenwater]

Iirc NACS doesn't support any of the V2H standards. If Lucid builds cars with NACS plus does that mean they will lose the possibility of V2H?

NACS was extended to do v2h, these articles say it does support that. https://www.dcbel.energy/blog/2023/06/28/is-nacs-compatible-with-bidirectional-charging/. See also https://www.tesla.com/powershare and https://electrek.co/2023/11/30/tesl...rectional-charging-on-cybertruck-only-so-far/


I think what's missing is working systems that are available and interoperable and people are using them and reporting what works and doesn't. The f150ev has some actual installs of their system, but it's rare, I can't tell that it supports any standard. If it's in NACS or CCS protocols (?) but no one uses it or it's "not yet available" which seems to be a permanent situation, then I don't trust that it's in any current cars. What's the deal with Lucid, they sold the dual j1772 connector, there's a thread on her about people wanting to use it to connect up to their solar power systems. dcbel seems to be working on this stuff. There are also a few cybertruck articles. Tesla sells so many cars, if they manage to this working on their other vehicles and shipped, then it will be a mass market thing pretty soon.

There's clear interest in these connected systems - solar power with battery backup, using the car as another battery, maybe going dc directly from solar (somehow) to the car's DC charging. I want all of this stuff tomorrow. I want someone to take my money please.

 

[Pragmatic]

Surprisingly V2H is currently most readily available with CHAdeMO plugs.

 

[scal_air]

Surprisingly V2H is currently most readily available with CHAdeMO plugs.

Kinda good news, bad news huh?
Your Chevy Bolt can power your house but it takes three days to discharge the 65kWh battery

 

[TFCooper]

Kinda good news, bad news huh?
Your Chevy Bolt can power your house but it takes three days to discharge the 65kWh battery

That would be a large upgrade over my 3 Powerwalls, which aggregate to only 40kwh.

 

[Tâm]

Battery experts. How realistic is the idea of solid state batteries working for mass production?

Audi says it's expensive and not any time soon:

Solid state batteries are not the game-changing future of mass production electric cars, according to Audi powertrain engineers - Car News

If you're even slightly interested in electric cars, chances are you've heard that solid state batteries are the future, coming to save us from range anxiety and the slow decline in power retention that current lithium-ion batteries face.But that might no

www.carsguide.com.au

 

[Tâm]

It looks like Tesla quietly tested 800V somewhere in North America as experienced by a Cybertruck driver:

Tesla Is Testing 320 KW+ Charging for the Cybertruck at Select V4 Superchargers

Tesla confirmed that it's testing higher power charging (over 320 kW) at select V4 Superchargers, even though the voltage remains 400 volts

www.autoevolution.com

The badge on the cabinet still says 250kW, but the experience says 325kW:

 

[HC_79]

It looks like Tesla quietly tested 800V somewhere in North America as experienced by a Cybertruck driver:

Tesla Is Testing 320 KW+ Charging for the Cybertruck at Select V4 Superchargers

Tesla confirmed that it's testing higher power charging (over 320 kW) at select V4 Superchargers, even though the voltage remains 400 volts

www.autoevolution.com

The badge on the cabinet still says 250kW, but the experience says 325kW:

View attachment 22448

Tesla confirmed they're trialing some V4 sites with an amperage unlock. Got to give it to Tesla though, they certainly figure out ways to push the limits. Whether something like this would work for non-Tesla's is yet to be seen.

 

[momo3605]

Tesla confirmed they're trialing some V4 sites with an amperage unlock. Got to give it to Tesla though, they certainly figure out ways to push the limits. Whether something like this would work for non-Tesla's is yet to be seen.

Good news! Seems like all the V4 stalls with 250kw station labels are just a cover up and can be unlocked to 900+V. That'll bring a sigh of relief to a lot of Lucid owners!

 

[Adnillien]

Good news! Seems like all the V4 stalls with 250kw station labels are just a cover up and can be unlocked to 900+V. That'll bring a sigh of relief to a lot of Lucid owners!

Nope, they are still outdated 400V chargers with a higher current limit to allow higher power.

 

[borski]

Good news! Seems like all the V4 stalls with 250kw station labels are just a cover up and can be unlocked to 900+V. That'll bring a sigh of relief to a lot of Lucid owners!

That's not true. They are simply increasing the current and hoping it won't blow up. It probably won't, but they're still 400V chargers.