NACS Megathread

[DeaneG]

The stalls are V4, cabinets are all still V3 from what I've read. Could be wrong, but in Kyle's most recent video about charging on NACS with the Ford, he mentions the same thing. Don't believe it's as simple as flicking a switch when they haven't installed the proper cabinets yet.

There's no proof that Tesla has even developed working, reliable 1000V power cabinets.

 

[Tâm]

Incorrect! V4 chargers are being deployed they're just not 1000v enabled yet. Hence why I said Hyundai. Lucid etc. jumping onboard in 2025 may be because Tesla will flick the switch on them this year sometime. The fact the hardware rolling out is a step in the right direction at least and we know they're 1000v capable.

V4 can fulfill the NEVI requirement of 920V.

Currently it doesn't because like you said, 1000V is not enabled yet.

Thus, it's a fake V4.

Fake means not true, so, there's no V4 currently.

It's a digital world: You are either pregnant or not. Waiting for the potential "enabled" doesn't count

 

[DeaneG]

V4 can fulfill the NEVI requirement of 920V.

Currently it doesn't because like you said, 1000V is not enabled yet.

More than "not enabled yet". The 1000V-capable v4 power cabinets that are needed do not exist yet. Only the v4 stand and cable have been installed. Not a single 1000V power cabinet.

 

[DeaneG]

Some more Alex on Autos / Auto Buyers Guide perspective:
"Now that the plug battle is over I'm seeing some revisionist history already creeping into the epitaph being written for CCS so let's try and set history right. NACS won not because it's a better connector (even though it is a better connector), nor because there are more NACS connectors in the wild (because there aren't, but more on that later), or even because they have the largest EV share in the USA (although it has now dropped to ~50% of new EV sales). No, Tesla won the plug war because they made a DC fast charging network that simply works. Tesla could cooked up the biggest, fugliest connector imaginable, and that still would have won in the end.

Pain points are interesting research because they don't have to happen frequently to be a problem. Case in point: DC fast charging. Most EV owners don't do it very often and many never do it at all. BUT, every EV shopper is worried about it when they buy the car. On average under 10% of charging is at a fast charge station.

Oddly that 10% is the only key area where Tesla's connector out-indexes CCS. According to the DOE, Tesla had 24,400 Supercharger ports at the end of 2023 in the USA vs just 14,245 CCS ports. More interesting perhaps: ports that support over the next generation of 300+ kW charging? Around 4,500 and all are CCS, although there are under 100 Tesla V4 stations out there that may one day go over 250kW.

Meanwhile for the 30% of charging that happens on the go, but not on a DC charger what do things look like? Very different. J1772 outnumbers Tesla's destination network by a whopping 11.5:1. There are 115,000 J1772 public ports registered with the DOE and an estimated 40,000 unregistered ports (like the ones at my office that are employee-only). Compare that to 10,000 Tesla destination chargers and an estimated 5,000 unregistered ports. Interesting perspective, isn't it?

Now for the odd part. NACS may be the defacto standard going forward, but it's entirely likely that CCS vehicles will outsell NACS for the next 18-24 months in N. America. That's the awkward part about changing standards.

Now. Why is NACS better? No, it's not the cable size, nor the latch mechanism, or it being easier to repair (it's actually less repairable on the connector side), it's mainly because it's easier to use and using the same pins for AC and DC just makes sense.

Given the N. American appetite for fast charging, you know what might have made more sense? Using the Chinese GB/T standard which would allow EVs to charge nearly 3x faster than the theoretical limit of the Tesla connector..."

 

[Rob Stark]

1)Ask 100 women over 60 to connect a Tesla to a Supercharger and then ask them to connect a CCS car to an EA station and ask them which they prefer.

2) GB/T or 750 kW charging capability is pointless here in the USA. Because demand charges will forever make 750 kW charging economically unfeasible. It would take a dictatorship like the CCP to force all the power companies, local regulators and all the "stake holders" to agree on a system where those high powered charging stations become economically feasible.

3) The reason NACS won is EA/EVgo suck. Tesla charging stations just plain work. AND Elon Musk decided not to charge legacy OEMs a per car fee for NACS/access to the Supercharger Network. Musk knew eventually at some point some a CCS Network that works reasonable well would emerge and eventually crowd out the NACS/Supercharger Network. So he made a move to entice Ford's Jim Farley into the Supercharger Network before that happened. The rest had to follow to be competitive in the here and now.

4) Tesla's USA BEV market share dropped to 50% in Q4 2023. Because US factories were down for maintenance and retooling for Model 3 Highland and Cybertruck. This year will see a ramp up. Doubt Tesla USA BEV market share drops below 50% over the next 12-18 months. Most are not following Tesla's price cuts.

Model Y starts at $44k and Model Y Performance starts at $52.5k.

Blazer EV starts at $56.7k. Others have advertised bait models with low range and/or low equipment levels for money similar to Tesla. Dealers don't stock those and customers don't want to buy those.

 

[chris]

^ except the model Y is still ugly as sin and the Model 3 is nothing special to look at. I haven't seen the revamped model 3 in person yet to make a final decision there yet but Tesla 3/Y so far is just plain fugly (to me anyway)

 

[skndrni]

Ok: going down the rabbit hole here. What do you think of this Lectron doodad?

Lectron Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter | Vortex Plug | 500A | 1000V

Shop our Lectron Vortex Plug Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter. Get fast delivery and best prices.

ev-lectron.com

 

[Tâm]

Ok: going down the rabbit hole here. What do you think of this Lectron doodad?

Lectron Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter | Vortex Plug | 500A | 1000V

Shop our Lectron Vortex Plug Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter. Get fast delivery and best prices.

ev-lectron.com

If something goes wrong, there used to be 2 parties to blame: either the charger or car manufacturer. Now you introduce a third which is Lectron.

When EA fried a Rivian, Rivian was paying for the battery and new charge port:

Rivian R1T Fried, Stuck to Electrify America Charger for Days After 'Loud Boom' While Charging

The owner claims "a loud explosion" came from the truck's power unit, turning the battery-powered pickup into an immovable object for days.

www.thedrive.com

Now, with Lectron, car manufacturer might not fix the problem for free by blaming the adapter.

 

[skndrni]

If something goes wrong, there used to be 2 parties to blame: either the charger or car manufacturer. Now you introduce a third which is Lectron.

When EA fried a Rivian, Rivian was paying for the battery and new charge port:

Rivian R1T Fried, Stuck to Electrify America Charger for Days After 'Loud Boom' While Charging

The owner claims "a loud explosion" came from the truck's power unit, turning the battery-powered pickup into an immovable object for days.

www.thedrive.com

Now, with Lectron, car manufacturer might not fix the problem for free by blaming the adapter.

Great point. Thanks for saving me the trouble of thinking.

 

[Adnillien]

Ok: going down the rabbit hole here. What do you think of this Lectron doodad?

Lectron Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter | Vortex Plug | 500A | 1000V

Shop our Lectron Vortex Plug Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter. Get fast delivery and best prices.

ev-lectron.com

Tesla is building the official adapters for Ford and will do the same for Rivian. With up to 500A of current, I would not mess around with a 3rd party adapter. UL is working on standards/certification process for these adapters. Once that happens and you can find a UL certified version, it would be fine. Until then, stick to one from Tesla or the car maker.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Has anyone tried the Ford adapter with a Lucid yet? I'm sure it won't work, but ...

 

[hydbob]

Has anyone tried the Ford adapter with a Lucid yet? I'm sure it won't work, but ...

Tom Moloughney tried using his Ford adapter on his Rivian with no success. Ford uses their own backend billing so it won't work.

 

[MoneyPit]

Tom Moloughney tried using his Ford adapter on his Rivian with no success. Ford uses their own backend billing so it won't work.

Correct but just for sake of elaborating, all the adapters are "dumb" and need backend from Tesla to work on a vehicle. So Fords can charge with the Ford adapter, A2Z adapter, or Lectron adapter right now. If there is still a bottleneck in supply whenever Lucid's time comes around presumably any of these adapters will work with our vehicles too.

 

[chris]

Ok: going down the rabbit hole here. What do you think of this Lectron doodad?

Lectron Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter | Vortex Plug | 500A | 1000V

Shop our Lectron Vortex Plug Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter. Get fast delivery and best prices.

ev-lectron.com

I would not trust it myself. Too early. Wait for other positive reviews first

 

[Bill55]

Ok: going down the rabbit hole here. What do you think of this Lectron doodad?

Lectron Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter | Vortex Plug | 500A | 1000V

Shop our Lectron Vortex Plug Tesla Supercharger (NACS) to CCS Adapter. Get fast delivery and best prices.

ev-lectron.com

I would bet that Lucid offers an adapter at the same time the Tesla network opens to Lucid Vehicles.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

There is no reason to get a NACS to CCS adapter until Lucid is authorized to use the Tesla supercharging network. I thought that Lucid was going to provide these free of charge once available (I could be mistaken though)

 

[Bill55]

Meanwhile for the 30% of charging that happens on the go, but not on a DC charger what do things look like? Very different. J1772 outnumbers Tesla's destination network by a whopping 11.5:1. There are 115,000 J1772 public ports registered with the DOE and an estimated 40,000 unregistered ports (like the ones at my office that are employee-only). Compare that to 10,000 Tesla destination chargers and an estimated 5,000 unregistered ports. Interesting perspective, isn't it?

Yes, but adapters for J1772 to Tesla or Tesla destination chargers to J1772 are widely available. I've frequently found Teslas charging at J1772 and Teslas have found me charging at Tesla destination chargers.

 

[skndrni]

There is no reason to get a NACS to CCS adapter until Lucid is authorized to use the Tesla supercharging network. I thought that Lucid was going to provide these free of charge once available (I could be mistaken though)

From your lips to Pete Rawlinson’s ear.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

Correct but just for sake of elaborating, all the adapters are "dumb"

Yes, but... It still has to be safe. See last paragraph.

Yes, but adapters for J1772 to Tesla or Tesla destination chargers to J1772 are widely available. I've frequently found Teslas charging at J1772 and Teslas have found me charging at Tesla destination chargers.

you are describing adapters for slow level 2 a/c charging. Most are 32, 40 to 48 amps and 240 v AC. Maybe 11kwh. All Tesla destination chargers are level 2 .They have virtually nothing in common with high amperage DC fast charging, such as a Tesla SC or EA, pumping 150- 350 Kwh of high amperage DC.

I spoke with a Lucid tech today. He replaced one melted Lucid charging port due to the owner using an EBay or Amazon Chinese Level 2 adapter so the owner could use a Tesla level 2 charger. Totally melted the Lucid contacts. Cost $1200.

 

[Bill55]

Yes, but... It still has to be safe. See last paragraph.

you are describing adapters for slow level 2 a/c charging. Most are 32, 40 to 48 amps and 240 v AC. Maybe 11kwh. All Tesla destination chargers are level 2 .They have virtually nothing in common with high amperage DC fast charging, such as a Tesla SC or EA, pumping 150- 350 Kwh of high amperage DC.

I spoke with a Lucid tech today. He replaced one melted Lucid charging port due to the owner using an EBay or Amazon Chinese Level 2 adapter so the owner could use a Tesla level 2 charger. Totally melted the Lucid contacts. Cost $1200.

Yes, and the section of the @DeaneG post I quoted was about J1772 and Tesla Destination Chargers. Not CCS or Tesla Supercharger.