Munro on 14-50 outlets for EV charging, and other worries

[Electrified]

A green dot just means it's hospital grade. What THAT means is that they are sampled more frequently during a production run to ensure that they meet quality standards.

No.
The construction and the materials are more robust than a commercial or spec grade outlet.

 

[HariK]

I played safe and replaced home depot no name ul rated 15 dollar outlet with 90 dollar hubbel outlet and I do have copper romex. I can tell you that the connector looked ceramic vs plastic in generic one and the contactors were much better and tight. Compared to what I am spending on 2 evs and in future a wallbox to plug in, the extra 75 felt like a total no brainer. Several hours 40A 240V can cause heat on a bad even ul connector and eventually fail.

 

[emoylv]

No.
The construction and the materials are more robust than a commercial or spec grade outlet.

I stand corrected. Better materials for sure. That said, I googled 14-50 hospital grade receptacle and came up empty. Anyone have better luck?

 

[Electrified]

There is no problem with Leviton devices, all the major manufacturers of electrical devices have different grades of device starting with: Residential Grade, Commercial Grade, Industrial Grade, Spec Grade, Hospital Grade, etc.

https://www.leviton.com/sites/REST/controller/LCProductListRestController/fullpdf/279-S00.pdf?products=279-S00&locale=en

https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/Straight_Blade_Receptacle_Board_Printed_Version_-_Q-1146.pdf

I stand corrected. Better materials for sure. That said, I googled 14-50 hospital grade receptacle and came up empty. Anyone have better luck?

I don't think you will find a 14-50R in hospital grade as I have never seen one in a hospital or even on a set of drawings for that matter, and the reason for that is there isn't a need a for a 14-50R in patient care; hospital grade receptacles are used in patient care areas where a receptacle with greater contact tension is used to minimize the potential for care equipment accidently becoming de-energized.

In my post above you will see a link to a Leviton industrial grade 14-50R (Cat #279-S00)that will be more robust than what you will typically find at your local home improvement store.

 

[emoylv]

I don't think you will find a 14-50R in hospital grade as I have never seen one in a hospital or even on a set of drawings for that matter, and the reason for that is there isn't a need a for a 14-50R in patient care; hospital grade receptacles are used in patient care areas where a receptacle with greater contact tension is used to minimize the potential for care equipment accidently becoming de-energized.

In my post above you will see a link to a Leviton industrial grade 14-50R (Cat #279-S00)that will be more robust than what you will typically find at your local home improvement store.

Found an interesting article on how NOT to do wiring: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgzGrbbrvjfKvMmbnHBXcrdGJvlCR

 

[borski]

Found an interesting article on how NOT to do wiring: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgzGrbbrvjfKvMmbnHBXcrdGJvlCR

This is a link to a private email which cannot be seen by anyone who isn’t logged in to *your* gmail account. Please feel free to try reposting a link to the content of the email or copy and paste the content here.

 

[emoylv]

https://www.quora.com/What-are-signs-that-electrical-work-was-done-by-an-amateur/answer/Kevin-Baker-14

https://www.quora.com/What-are-signs-that-electrical-work-was-done-by-an-amateur/answer/Kevin-Baker-14

qr.ae

This is a link to a private email which cannot be seen by anyone who isn’t logged in to *your* gmail account. Please feel free to try reposting a link to the content of the email or copy and paste the content here.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-signs-that-electrical-work-was-done-by-an-amateur/answer/Kevin-Baker-14

https://www.quora.com/What-are-signs-that-electrical-work-was-done-by-an-amateur/answer/Kevin-Baker-14

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[A Fischman]

I use a 14-50 plug. I don’t like that the Lucid doesn’t give you an option to set charge rate. Pulling 40 amps when unnecessary is something I don’t like. In my case I don’t drive much and would much rather have Lucid limit current draw to say 20 amps. It doesn’t matter to me how long it takes.

I initially used the Lucid 14-50 plug into a 10-30 receptacle in my laundry room using an adapter. It turns out that the circuit breaker on that line is 30 amp. Needless to say that the breaker was tripped. I felt the plug and it was quite warm. Realizing the problem, I called Lucid CS. The person that I spoke to told me that the Lucid store had an adapter for a NEMA 14-30 receptacle. I purchased that adapter and installed a Leviton NEMA 14-30 receptacle (from Home Depot). My car charges at 24 amps and I feel no heat on the plug even after 5 - 6 hours of charging. I don't need to do this more than twice a week. I never remove the plug from the receptacle. This seems to really meet my needs. Does anyone see a problem with this? Thanks for everyone's contributions to our universal knowledge.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I initially used the Lucid 14-50 plug into a 10-30 receptacle in my laundry room using an adapter. It turns out that the circuit breaker on that line is 30 amp. Needless to say that the breaker was tripped. I felt the plug and it was quite warm. Realizing the problem, I called Lucid CS. The person that I spoke to told me that the Lucid store had an adapter for a NEMA 14-30 receptacle. I purchased that adapter and installed a Leviton NEMA 14-30 receptacle (from Home Depot). My car charges at 24 amps and I feel no heat on the plug even after 5 - 6 hours of charging. I don't need to do this more than twice a week. I never remove the plug from the receptacle. This seems to really meet my needs. Does anyone see a problem with this? Thanks for everyone's contributions to our universal knowledge.

You should be ok. The Qmerit electrician I talked with who hardwired my Chargepoint to 60 amp said the fear over the NEMA receptacles melting etc was overblown unless they were installed by an amateur, he said the main problem is that because electrical code requires GFCI you’re going to get nuisance tripping a lot, which is what was happening to my Seymour Pass Legrand 14-50 outlet, even though I rarely unplugged the plug from the outlet. I’d been using it for a year but not heavily, but once my wife got her EV and was home charging all the time it started tripping a fair amount even though my panel had plenty of room available to accommodate the continuous load. He said the outlet looked in perfect condition and the nuts didn’t need re-torque, he said the GFCI are just too sensitive with continuous loads like that so that’s the main reason to hardwire, so that way you don’t wake up to a car that didn’t charge overnight when you expected it to, which happened to me several times with my wife’s Volvo even though I’d lowered the amps. Now hardwired at 10.9kW I’ve got 48amps and it’s faster and no reliability issues at all.

 

[Andretex]

I initially used the Lucid 14-50 plug into a 10-30 receptacle in my laundry room using an adapter. It turns out that the circuit breaker on that line is 30 amp. Needless to say that the breaker was tripped. I felt the plug and it was quite warm. Realizing the problem, I called Lucid CS. The person that I spoke to told me that the Lucid store had an adapter for a NEMA 14-30 receptacle. I purchased that adapter and installed a Leviton NEMA 14-30 receptacle (from Home Depot). My car charges at 24 amps and I feel no heat on the plug even after 5 - 6 hours of charging. I don't need to do this more than twice a week. I never remove the plug from the receptacle. This seems to really meet my needs. Does anyone see a problem with this? Thanks for everyone's contributions to our universal knowledge.

You should be fine. The fire issue is related to those receptacles not being designed for long use at high amps. At 24 amps, you should be good as long as you are comfortable with 5.7kw charging which could take 14 hours or so for a full charge of a Lucid.

 

[Electrified]

I initially used the Lucid 14-50 plug into a 10-30 receptacle in my laundry room using an adapter. It turns out that the circuit breaker on that line is 30 amp. Needless to say that the breaker was tripped. I felt the plug and it was quite warm. Realizing the problem, I called Lucid CS. The person that I spoke to told me that the Lucid store had an adapter for a NEMA 14-30 receptacle. I purchased that adapter and installed a Leviton NEMA 14-30 receptacle (from Home Depot). My car charges at 24 amps and I feel no heat on the plug even after 5 - 6 hours of charging. I don't need to do this more than twice a week. I never remove the plug from the receptacle. This seems to really meet my needs. Does anyone see a problem with this? Thanks for everyone's contributions to our universal knowledge.

At 24 amps the adapter reduces the current to 80% of the 30 amp rating of the receptacle and breaker which meets NEC Sec. 384-16 (c) for continuous loads; there are absolutely no problems with your set up as presented.

 

[DeaneG]

Did you use the old 10-30's neutral wire as the ground on the 14-30, and leave the 14-30's neutral unconnected? If so, it'll work fine with your mobile charger but could destroy a clothes dryer someone else could plug in sometime in the future. It's also against code. Maybe put a label on the outlet to remind future you or someone else.

If there was a ground wire coming into the junction box, and you used that for the 14-30's ground terminal, great. You'd have all four terminals of the 14-30 properly connected.

Once a year or so, pull the mobile charger plug out after a hour charging your car and test the prongs for warmth again. The issue isn't how the receptacle works on day one, it's how it works after thermal cycling hundreds of times. Like the 14-50, an "industrial" 14-30 will hold up better with time than a "residential" grade piece due to its stiffer construction / better plastic and higher maximum terminal screw torque.

Incidentally, the -30 or -50 at the end of the receptacle type number is also the maximum circuit breaker amperage it is rated for. A 5-15 receptacle (an ordinary 120V household receptacle) is rated for a 15-amp breaker and can handle 15 amps non-continuous use (toaster oven, microwave) or 80% of that for "continuous" duty like EV charging.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

Once a year or so, pull the mobile charger plug out after a hour charging your car and test the prongs for warmth again. The issue isn't how the receptacle works on day one, it's how it works after thermal cycling hundreds of times. Like the 14-50, an "industrial" 14-30 will hold up better with time than a "residential" grade piece due to its stiffer construction / better plastic and higher maximum terminal screw torque.

@DeaneG , for the first time in recorded history, I have to disagree. As a lawyer and electrical engineer, the fact that you tell people they should check the receptacle yearly for a dangerous defect means there is an inherent problem you want to catch before a fire breaks out. What if the cheap spring brass lug opens during the year? The can catastrophicly fail. I spent weeks at Hubbell designing specialist receptacles. I have seen in.

 

[lucidtouringman]

I use a 14-50 plug. I don’t like that the Lucid doesn’t give you an option to set charge rate. Pulling 40 amps when unnecessary is something I don’t like. In my case I don’t drive much and would much rather have Lucid limit current draw to say 20 amps. It doesn’t matter to me how long it takes.

Exactly and part of the reason why after buying it I returned it. Now I am using charge point and love the fact that I can change the speed of charge via my app amongst other metrics that I get in the app.

 

[DeaneG]

@DeaneG , for the first time in recorded history, I have to disagree. As a lawyer and electrical engineer, the fact that you tell people they should check the receptacle yearly for a dangerous defect means there is an inherent problem you want to catch before a fire breaks out. What if the cheap spring brass lug opens during the year? The can catastrophicly fail. I spent weeks at Hubbell designing specialist receptacles. I have seen in.

Fair enough. Some users seem wedded to their already-installed cheap receptacle. Checking is better than nothing in that case.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

Fair enough. Some users seem wedded to their already-installed cheap receptacle. Checking is better than nothing in that case.

Better yet, we could sell them an OFFICAL LUCID FIRE EXTINGUSHER made for electrical fires. (a choice of carbon dioxide or powder - in colors to match their Lucids) I can buy them from Kidde or Grainger, put the Lucid name on them, and double the price. Isn't that how it works? (I still have Halon ones in my shop - I think they are illegal now)

 

[DeaneG]

Better yet, we could sell them an OFFICAL LUCID FIRE EXTINGUSHER made for electrical fires. (a choice of carbon dioxide or powder - in colors to match their Lucids) I can buy them from Kidde or Grainger, put the Lucid name on them, and double the price. Isn't that how it works? (I still have Halon ones in my shop - I think they are illegal now)

I had a Halon extinguisher for one of my cars too. Powder is such a mess.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

I had a Halon extinguisher for one of my cars too. Powder is such a mess.

From what I remember, if the surfaces are hot enough, the powder bakes on. I kept a couple halon around when I raced mechanical injection Porsches, powder would destroy the engine. Halon just destroyed the ozone.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

@DeaneG , for the first time in recorded history, I have to disagree. As a lawyer and electrical engineer, the fact that you tell people they should check the receptacle yearly for a dangerous defect means there is an inherent problem you want to catch before a fire breaks out. What if the cheap spring brass lug opens during the year? The can catastrophicly fail. I spent weeks at Hubbell designing specialist receptacles. I have seen in.

This makes me even more glad I hardwired.

 

[emoylv]

Fair enough. Some users seem wedded to their already-installed cheap receptacle. Checking is better than nothing in that case.

Doesn’t make sense to cheap out on a $50 receptacle when we’ve spent $100K on a car. The math doesn’t add up. And replacing the receptacle is easy since the hard parts (breaker and wiring) are already done. Just need a new receptacle, cover plate and a 1/4” torque wrench. Remember to switch the breaker off first. At this point, hard-wiring may be a challenge. Doubtful the pigtail will be long enough to connect to an EVSE. Definitely need to check the slack in the wiring before splurging on a charger. OR Plug in the charger and leave it “permanently” plugged in.