Model S Plaid vs Vs Air Touring

[xponents]

I thought the Plaid was still using pleather everywhere and they don't use carbon fiber anywhere in the Plaid? Hence a "cheap" interior for the price, pre-drop at least.

Also with the range extender you lose A LOT of bed storage so it's not really that practical. Also the range extender would add quite a bit of weight, probably end up being less efficient than a R1T in that regard as well.

Yeah it is pleather vs nappa leather and feels like plastic in comparison. Other than that though, the materials are VERY nice, the metal is real metal for example(not the case in the lucid shockingly, although they both feel very solid) and the carbon is real carbon.


I am aware of the range extenders downsides, but if it is quickly swappable(probably not) for towing where you may not need much bed space then I see no problem!

Cybertruck does not have the “high end Tesla” interior. It’s closer to the 3/Y. From my video it’s also very apparent to me that the fake carbon trim and fake vinyl leather looks bad and feels cheap compared to the plethora of high end materials and textures in the rivians and lucids

I haven’t seen it in person to confirm, so I cannot say anything to that. If it is like the s plaid though, all materials except the vinyl will feel great and be real. The Lucids blend of textures, fabrics, and artful contrasting really does appeal to me though, more so than the s!(and this is a typically minimalist guy, just look at my desk)

not really. The R1 gets 352 epa and has a Cd of .030. The CT is .033 and has epa of 320 or 340 depending on config. And thanks to their skewed testing it’ll probably be a more realistic high 200s

Well, without battery size we can’t speak to this. Rumors are that it is a 122 kWh pack, putting its efficiency at 2.7. In comparison, the r1s has 2.17. Even with the typical Tesla gap, I expect them to be close.

I don’t know about that…definitely not price or power, or trunk size, or autonomous features, or software features, or charging network, and I think I could keep adding to this list.

Hence why I said most. To me, all of those points are moot except price and charging network! There is an EV for everyone in this market, which is great.

 

[scal_air]

Young man, I’m not sure I can agree with you here. The Cybertruck looks ridiculous. It shouts “look at me!“ which is exact opposite of what I look for in a vehicle.

Also, what tax credit are you talking about? I suspect you are referring to a tax deduction for businesses that own a 6000lb+ vehicle and use it for business purposes. It doesn’t apply to individuals.

From MensXP

The weirdly angular stainless steel car stands out for sure, and well, maybe that was the intention. It honestly looks like that car everyone drew as a kid. Elon himself probably designed it as a kid and he's just rich enough now to make his childhood designs become a reality.

© Tesla
The launch of the Cybertruck in itself was quite eventful, and not just because the unbreakable glass on it actually broke. As soon as it was unveiled, it obviously went viral because it's Elon Musk. People loved how easily they could make memes on this weird looking vehicle and Twitter was flooded with the best jokes after that, of course.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I don't dislike Tesla as a company. I dislike Musk as a human being. Still, it's clear which brand I prefer at this point, but for the time being, Lucid doesn't cover as broad a price range or variety of body styles. I don't think that Musk would care whether or not you sell a Model 3, but I see your point. I offered my father my Model 3, and he initially said that he'd take it, only because it's used and Elon wouldn't profit from the sale. You are far from alone.

I offered to upgrade my daughter’s Honda Accord Hybrid to Model-Y several times. She fervently declined. Obviously, she’s as big fan of Elon as his daughter Xavier who disowned her father.

 

[xponents]

From MensXP

The weirdly angular stainless steel car stands out for sure, and well, maybe that was the intention. It honestly looks like that car everyone drew as a kid. Elon himself probably designed it as a kid and he's just rich enough now to make his childhood designs become a reality.

© Tesla
The launch of the Cybertruck in itself was quite eventful, and not just because the unbreakable glass on it actually broke. As soon as it was unveiled, it obviously went viral because it's Elon Musk. People loved how easily they could make memes on this weird looking vehicle and Twitter was flooded with the best jokes after that, of course.

Fair point! Obviously, people older than me will have drastically different tastes. For reference, I like the design of the rezvani vengeance AND the gravity at the same time!

 

[momo3605]

I like the design of the rezvani vengeance

This explains everything

 

[scal_air]

This explains everything

Ill bet the the rezvani window won't break if you hit it with a brick. ..

 

[xponents]

Ill bet the the rezvani window won't break if you hit it with a brick. ..

Useful for the soccer moms dropping their kids off to soccer camp, surely!

 

[EXOTIC2]

Looks like this could be a nice deal if looking for a low mile used GT. The high-end used EV market has really come down. Porsche/Tesla/Lucid / Audi have all had major dips in price over the last 6 months for their higher tier used models. Some great buying opportunities on the used market.

2022 Lucid Air Grand Touring - ~900 Miles, Dual-Motor AWD, 469-Mile Range, Zenith Red

This 2022 Lucid Air Grand Touring is for sale on Cars & Bids! Auction ends December 27 2023.

carsandbids.com

 

[DeaneG]

Looks like this could be a nice deal if looking for a low mile used GT. The high-end used EV market has really come down. Porsche/Tesla/Lucid / Audi have all had major dips in price over the last 6 months for their higher tier used models. Some great buying opportunities on the used market.

MBZ as well, if that floats your boat.

 

[xponents]

MBZ as well, if that floats your boat.

More like floats your inverted bathtub, kind of like the shape of their cars.

 

[BobFM]

Ill bet the the rezvani window won't break if you hit it with a brick. ..

Saw a Rezvani in Austin a couple months ago and definitely did a double-take. And that was before I knew what the stats were on it...

 

[Haggy]

I dislike Elon and Tesla as well, but not as much as you haha. Tesla is a great entry level EV for anyone. Definitely good for EV adoptions. What draws the line for me is when the Model 3 came out. Service went to shit hole, before that, it was as good as Lucid. I'm just scared that is also going to happen to Lucid in 5 years or so.

Right after the 3 came out, service centers were overwhelmed and ran out of loaner cars but hadn't yet become a problem. Tesla was moving from a high end model to one where a row of cars lines up.

I had a 3 (VIN 5xx) so I have a good idea of how things started. They were quick to react, did a lot of proactive swapping of parts for newer revisions even with no sign of problems, and were intent on getting to the gist of small problems early on.

Mine had the original sports suspension, which people found incredibly rough feeling. When I complained about it, they rebuilt my entire suspension with new components. There was no defect or warranty issue so they didn't have to do it.

They gave me a BMW 4 series loaner, which I found sluggish and it made me feel good about my decision. But later on, things like giving loaners, answering the phone, getting back to people were no longer there.

It took a bit longer for things to get really bad. More recently, it's been impossible to call them about a problem, but things are workable through the app. And if they show up at your house, you get good service.

I had them come to my house to swap out repeater cameras for better ones, and the labor was only around $12 each.

So it's a mixed bag. It's not terrible. It's nowhere near what it was a decade ago. But appointment times are generally quicker.

An exception is with Tesla owned body shops, where getting a quick appointment is impossible. But they do good work and surprisingly come in cheaper than other body shops.

 

[Haggy]

I thought the Plaid was still using pleather everywhere and they don't use carbon fiber anywhere in the Plaid? Hence a "cheap" interior for the price, pre-drop at least.

Lucid gives you much nicer interior options as well as a choice of materials. I'm ambivalent about Tesla's "vegan leather." Synthetic materials have come a long way, and the seats in my 3 were more durable than the leather ones in my S, which show some wrinkles. The steering wheel in my 3 was leather, and I've heard that the synthetic ones were less durable.

Leather in general used to be more of a high end luxury item, but prices have dropped. Some argue that synthetic seats are even better. I don't like them better but my opinion is not based on anything objective. And there's the vegan argument. I don't know how much Musk cares about not using leather from animals that would have been killed anyway, how much is to appease vegans and how much is marketing, but if there are people who don't want leather as a matter of principle, I can respect that.

 

[joec]

Lucid gives you much nicer interior options as well as a choice of materials. I'm ambivalent about Tesla's "vegan leather." Synthetic materials have come a long way, and the seats in my 3 were more durable than the leather ones in my S, which show some wrinkles. The steering wheel in my 3 was leather, and I've heard that the synthetic ones were less durable.

Leather in general used to be more of a high end luxury item, but prices have dropped. Some argue that synthetic seats are even better. I don't like them better but my opinion is not based on anything objective. And there's the vegan argument. I don't know how much Musk cares about not using leather from animals that would have been killed anyway, how much is to appease vegans and how much is marketing, but if there are people who don't want leather as a matter of principle, I can respect that.

I also respect that. But a lot of "vegan leather" is essentially plastic. Which is way worse for the environment than leather, which is organic.

I have no idea about Tesla's vegan leather. What it's made from. I was pleased to hear Derek Jenkins describe the vegan option in Gravity as being made from recycled cloth. I'm assuming that means it's more bio-degradable than faux leather tends to be.

 

[donfenn]

I also respect that. But a lot of "vegan leather" is essentially plastic. Which is way worse for the environment than leather, which is organic.

I have no idea about Tesla's vegan leather. What it's made from. I was pleased to hear Derek Jenkins describe the vegan option in Gravity as being made from recycled cloth. I'm assuming that means it's more bio-degradable than faux leather tends to be.

Vegan leather has become the current term used to describe vinyls and composite blended materials which somewhat mimic leather in appearance. There is nothing truly vegan about them, but it sounds environmentally friendly, and no cows were killed for their hides.

 

[LVAGT]

Right after the 3 came out, service centers were overwhelmed and ran out of loaner cars but hadn't yet become a problem. Tesla was moving from a high end model to one where a row of cars lines up.

I had a 3 (VIN 5xx) so I have a good idea of how things started. They were quick to react, did a lot of proactive swapping of parts for newer revisions even with no sign of problems, and were intent on getting to the gist of small problems early on.

Mine had the original sports suspension, which people found incredibly rough feeling. When I complained about it, they rebuilt my entire suspension with new components. There was no defect or warranty issue so they didn't have to do it.

They gave me a BMW 4 series loaner, which I found sluggish and it made me feel good about my decision. But later on, things like giving loaners, answering the phone, getting back to people were no longer there.

It took a bit longer for things to get really bad. More recently, it's been impossible to call them about a problem, but things are workable through the app. And if they show up at your house, you get good service.

I had them come to my house to swap out repeater cameras for better ones, and the labor was only around $12 each.

So it's a mixed bag. It's not terrible. It's nowhere near what it was a decade ago. But appointment times are generally quicker.

An exception is with Tesla owned body shops, where getting a quick appointment is impossible. But they do good work and surprisingly come in cheaper than other body shops.

I wholeheartedly agree with all the points. As more 3 and Y get on the road, service going to get worst. Also very depend on where you reside too. In general, the people working at Tesla service department, to me, just aren't as kind and easy to talk to compare to a decade ago. The impression Ive gotten now is that they don't even care for me as a customer anymore. 180 from what it was before.

 

[momo3605]

More recently, it's been impossible to call them about a problem, but things are workable through the app. And if they show up at your house, you get good service.

This 100%. Honestly most of the issues I had with my model 3 were minor and in 4 years of ownership I never had an in-person appt. Everything was mobile. They were great at it. You can get an appt within a week whereas with rivian and lucid you have to wait months sometimes. I think with mobile appts they’ve already approved the replacements so they don’t really push you to show them the issue, they just come in, replace whatever you want, and they head out. I loved teslas mobile service.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I don’t know how they make synthetic vegan leather. But I can assure you my Rivian R1S vegan leather feels more real and much better quality seat than all models of Tesla I have driven.

 

[momo3605]

I don’t know how they make synthetic vegan leather. But I can assure you my Rivian R1S vegan leather feels more real and much better quality seat than all models of Tesla I have driven.

Yea my R1 feels night and day nicer inside than the plaid I reviewed.

 

[Haggy]

I also respect that. But a lot of "vegan leather" is essentially plastic. Which is way worse for the environment than leather, which is organic.

I have no idea about Tesla's vegan leather. What it's made from. I was pleased to hear Derek Jenkins describe the vegan option in Gravity as being made from recycled cloth. I'm assuming that means it's more bio-degradable than faux leather tends to be.

I'm no expert, but here's what the manufacturer of the material used by Tesla claims:

Sustainability Commitment

From the innovators to the designers of our products, our team is highly committed to our motto of sustainability. To know more, click here.

www.ultrafabricsinc.com

Sustainable Future

We look forward to the future, and curate our products with the concerns of the same. We concentrate on making our products sustainable for the future.

www.ultrafabricsinc.com

I found it more durable than the actual leather that Tesla used in the past. When I got my Model S, there were several grades of leather to choose from. It held up well except for a few wrinkles on the seat on the side near the door. In the Model 3 that I had for six years, the faux leather held up well. From what I've read, it might not be the same for steering wheels and on that car, they used leather for the steering wheel.

If it's sustainably made, I have no problem with it. As far as leather goes, I'm personally not bothered by it since animals aren't killed specifically for it and it's a byproduct. Others feel differently and I can respect that. Leather used to be far more expensive and at the time was considered a highly premium material, but these days a car doesn't have to be the top of the line to get leather seats and leather is no longer prized for its durability over synthetics. It didn't stop me from getting leather, but I'd expect Lucid's vegan option to be good quality.

There's also a chance that Tesla changed suppliers, and it's not something that they'd issue a press release for, but they do get pressure from environmental groups.