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MB EQS vs Lucid Air/Dream Comparison vis-à-vis August 10, 2021 EQS Available for Ordering Press Statement

dawktah LucidGT

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Mercedes has announced some of the specs for the EQS AMG 53. It will have 649 hp, with 751 hp on tap with a Boost Mode (similar to the Tesla Plaid Launch Mode and the Lucid Air Dream Sprint Mode). Mercedes is claiming 0-62 in 3.4 seconds (about 3.2 for 0-60). No information has been released on range or pricing.

In its ICE lineup Mercedes has sometimes offered both an AMG 5X and an AMG 6X version (such as the S53 and the S63 or the old SL55 and SL65). So maybe Mercedes is leaving the door open for a more powerful EQS AMG variant further down the road? It's certainly going to need to if it hopes to become a performance contender against Tesla and Lucid.
Interesting, how ICE release cars bottom up but EV do it top down. GM should have led with the Lyriq.
 

hmp10

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I think it's because startups need to generate as much margin as they can upon production start, and the high-end helps there
 

Lucken

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That was always Tesla’s approach and it seems to have been effective.
 

Lucken

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Nothing about ride, handling or NVH? Not much of a review. He did mention that much of the instrument panel blanked out wearing polarized sunglasses. To me that’s astonishing that automakers would still make a mistake like that. You’d see that years ago, but most manufacturers have figured out that many drivers do actually wear polarized sunglasses to combat reflections. The heads-up display in my wife’s car largely disappears with polarized sunglasses. At least the main display doesn’t.

It will be interesting to see how many Mercedes sells with styling that borders on the hideous.
 
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hmp10

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I'm not surprised he found the rear seat very uncomfortable. At first blush from the photos, the rear seat looked as if it had more vertical leg drop than the Lucid. But then I found this graphic from Mercedes that showed a rear seat passenger with his knees jacked up just as in the Lucid with the larger battery pack and, comparing this with the photos, I realized the seat looked so high because it was angled sharply upward toward the front, thus creating the bent-forward feel this reviewer noted.

The EQS wheelbase is 9.9" longer than the Lucid Air's. Combined with the lack of a frunk, this indicates just how miserable a job Mercedes has done of packaging components in this car compared to Lucid's effort.

Screen Shot 2021-04-05 at 2.28.32 PM.png


To me, the car more than borders on the hideous. It's crossed over and is halfway to Peru. As I've said in several posts around the internet, there is not a single crease or line on the front left untouched by a chrome appliqué, and the interior looks like a cross between a Vegas casino and a Texas whorehouse. Quilted leather, faux piano lacquer, chrome bits and bobs everywhere, and enough LED strip lighting to dim the neon lights on the Strip.

W. C. Fields once said that Mae West was every plumber's idea of Cleopatra. I think the EQS is every pimped-out Escalade driver's idea of automotive luxury. All that's missing is a vinyl roof and opera windows, and the 70's will live again.

To go from the subtle elegance, both inside and out, of the outgoing Model S to this overwrought mess simply beggars belief. All just my humble opinion, of course.
 

hmp10

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The EPA numbers for the EQS have come in: 340 miles for the dual-motor 580 and 350 miles for the single-motor 450.

Pretty paltry, in my view.

I called my brother to discuss the news. The first words out of his mouth: "they could do 470 if they turned off the interior lighting."
 
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Adnillien

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The EPA numbers for the EQS have come in: 340 miles for the dual-motor 580 and 350 miles for the single-motor 450.

Pretty paltry, in my view.
This is why many of us believe that Lucid is way ahead of the competition with respect to efficiency.
 

Neurio

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Looks like the press embargo has lifted for the EQS. There are a few reviews out there, but I only read this one. They overall seem to like it, but had some interesting criticisms.


Some highlights/lowlights:
The new 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS, however, is quiet. As in, carrying on a conversation at a hushed whisper while doing 65 miles per hour on choppy pavement through San Francisco. Road noise? Nope. Wind noise? Not really. Cars and trucks pushing air at you from the opposite direction? Just a mild fwaa, like someone exhaling from across the room.
Seems like no NVH issues here

It's indeed a strikingly different car to behold, if vaguely reminiscent of those from the 1990s that embraced cab-forward design and rounded silhouettes.
Ah, the 90s, a great era for car design...

In the EQS, the brake pedal literally moves as the system slows the car, not unlike old cruise controls that would pull the throttle away from your foot. Should you need to intervene and add extra braking power, you'll find the pedal to be where it would've been had you been doing the job the entire time
Sounds irritating

The materials and build quality are to an S-Class standard, meaning better than anything on the planet that doesn't wear a Rolls-Royce or Bentley badge.
Luxury quality

Less successful is the instrument panel. It offers a diverse selection of designs, including two that mimic gauges(ish), one that highlights the driver assistance systems, a navigation screen (you can have three on the dash at once), and probably the strangest and most pointless instrument design I've ever encountered: the "Sport" display. It's technically a G force meter but it looks like a red flying saucer floating about a fjord in a fighter jet's crosshairs. Because sporty? Add to that the curious obsession with ambient lighting schemes and one has to admit that a lot of this stuff is a bit ridiculous.
UFO G force meter?

That sleek roofline significantly reduces headroom to the point that even those of average height might feel a bit squished (I'm 6-foot-3 and my head was stuck against the headliner with a speaker looming just above my ear).
 

Neurio

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Kyle Conner drove the EQS 580 and posted a 35 minute video. He loves the car, other than the styling and the depressed brake pedal during regen braking:


At the end, he gave his thoughts on Plaid vs. Taycan vs. Air vs. EQS (taken from Youtube's transcript function):
My impression after driving EQS now, Model S, Lucid Air and Porsche Taycan all in the last actually like six days is if you want straight line acceleration: Model S Plaid.
If you want amazing driving dynamics paired with brutal acceleration you go for the Taycan.
If you want sort of this new world of startup luxury if you will. This sort of uh minimalist opulence. I don't know I'm coming up with words now. You go Lucid Air. This is you know 520 miles of
range, 1100 horsepower, uh just insane car really is, but lacks the really deep integration that this car has: rear steer, air suspension, amazing infotainment system in this car.
It's truly amazing. I love MBUX it's stellar.
Massaging seats that car has but I don't think they're as good as this car.
The sound quality in this car is better but then if you just like don't care what your car looks like on the outside - that has to be a prerequisite in my opinion - and you want the coolest, the best, the
most premium driving experience on the road, combustion or electric, you get an EQS
 

dawktah LucidGT

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Kyle Conner drove the EQS 580 and posted a 35 minute video. He loves the car, other than the styling and the depressed brake pedal during regen braking:


At the end, he gave his thoughts on Plaid vs. Taycan vs. Air vs. EQS (taken from Youtube's transcript function):
I used to like Kyle. Word salad...

Some pretty big complaints in the beginning, but still likes it?

EVs need an over age 50 reviewer. When you're impressed by the LED lights...

Where's the discussion on navigation, Dolby Atmos, audio transport in Air? Looks like I won't know about being able to connect my Astell & Kern until the test drive.
 
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hmp10

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Yes . . .

And he never tried the backset, which some reviewers have said has less headroom than the new Model S and others have noted bends you too far forward at the waist due to the angle between the bottom and back cushions. For a car that he claims is all about S-Class comfort, how could he not even get into the backseat?

And after making such pointed note of his finding that the Lucid had noticeably more tire noise in the backseat than in the front (where no one has mentioned similar tire noise), why wouldn't he want to check to see if the EQS had different NVH characteristics between its seating positions? Instead, he assessed the car from a single position and pronounced it flawless.

Others have noted that the Hyperscreen becomes partially invisible when wearing polarized sunglasses, as many drivers do, especially in parts of the country were the sun is strong and EV penetration is highest. Conner was driving without sunglasses.

And so on . . . .

It appears we're going to have to wait for "Edmunds" to do their thing: purchase the cars and put them through thoroughly comprehensive testing in which every car is tested with uniform procedures in consistent conditions.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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Yes . . .

And he never tried the backset, which some reviewers have said has less headroom than the new Model S and others have noted bends you too far forward at the waist due to the angle between the bottom and back cushions. For a car that he claims is all about S-Class comfort, how could he not even get into the backseat?

And after making such pointed note of his finding that the Lucid had noticeably more tire noise in the backseat than in the front (where no one has mentioned similar tire noise), why wouldn't he want to check to see if the EQS had different NVH characteristics between its seating positions? Instead, he assessed the car from a single position and pronounced it flawless.

Others have noted that the Hyperscreen becomes partially invisible when wearing polarized sunglasses, as many drivers do, especially in parts of the country were the sun is strong and EV penetration is highest. Conner was driving without sunglasses.

And so on . . . .

It appears we're going to have to wait for "Edmunds" to do their thing: purchase the cars and put them through thoroughly comprehensive testing in which every car is tested with uniform procedures in consistent conditions.
I've always felt some reviews are biased and in some instances appear to have "incentives" attached. A brake pedal that falls away that he described as an "design flaw!"
 

UO2

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I test drove the EQS 580+ at a Mercedes event yesterday in Las Vegas. I currently have both a Tesla Model 3 Performance and a Mercedes AMG GT S, and also put down a deposit for a Lucid Air Grand Touring, so I would guess I am close to their ideal customer.

Like most car reviews of cars with which you're familiar, these online reviews of the EQS have little echoes of what I picked up on my short drive. My takes:

- Exterior does not get better when seeing it in real life. Goofy looking.

- Interior finishes are nice. Not crazy about all the quilty stitching but the materials were very nice in the 580+ I drove. I sat in a 450 also and those materials looked like crap. Seats were cheap General Motors style leather or maybe even "MBTex" vinyl.

- The "hyperscreen" was a little silly, as the screen in front of the passenger seemed to have many common controls. I'm not sure if those controls are mappable to any screen in reach of the driver. The center screen looked good but map scrolling was STILL not up to where an Apple iPad was in 2010 (with admittedly fewer pixels to move). Tesla's screens are significantly better in this regard. I'm assuming Lucid will be better but don't know.

- the screens often had silly animations when activating a feature. Annoying-- just get to the feature.

- You can turn creep off.

- Pet peeve coming up: If you have a blue (or green or orange) Apple iMac, you get complementary blue (or green or orange) screen backgrounds and screensavers corresponding to YOUR computer automatically. If you have a white (or blue or red) Tesla, all images of your car on the screen are of a white (or blue or red) car, corresponding to YOUR color. The software knows what color the outside is. If you get in a blue EQS, you get a grey EQS on screen. If you get in a white EQS, you get a grey EQS on screen. You get the idea. The software has no idea and doesn't care what color your car is. This isn't hard, but it shows a decided lack of attention to detail. When I pointed this out to the poor MB employee showing me the car, his defense was "But those are technology companies."

- Getting in, there was no apparent door pull to close the door. I just awkwardly grabbed the armrest but this is perhaps some vestige of the motorized door feature-- which the car I was in did not have.

- Seats were fine and visibility not great, especially out the tiny rear window.

- hit my head when I tried the back seat, like in a CLS. I'm 5'10". And my knees were jacked up. Lots of forward knee room though.

- No frunk, because the MB engineers apparently don't know how to design a properly sized inverter/charger system smaller than a freaking internal combustion engine.

- Drive mode selection was typical MB, same as Tesla Model 3 (right stalk down for D, up for R). However, unlike my Model 3, the left stalk had real activate and hold turn signals.

- Steering wheel festooned with touch panel activations instead of physical buttons. Not sure why people think this is the future, or if they're cheaper than a darn button. At least I didn't accidently activate anything. I did try to change the stereo volume briefly and couldn't make it work, but I didn't really try very hard.

- The drive was very quiet on the rough under-construction roads surrounding the shopping mall where the test drive took place. I did not try any of the artificial sounds.

- The paddles on the wheel control regenerative braking. The default was none. I hit the left paddle to increase one step and it was pretty aggressive. I noticed the weird brake pedal travel. It was a short drive, but it was hard to modulate the regenerative braking as well as the mechanical brakes to be smooth. It really did seem like a bad flaw but perhaps it's something you can get used to.

- I had a small opportunity to punch the accelerator. My drive was in the 580+, but acceleration was very slow compared to what I'm used to from an electric car. It was more like a moderately fast ICE car. If the EQS AMG is only 650hp, these guys are toast vs Lucid and Plaid Tesla. Even Rivian has 800hp. It sure seems like either MB can't engineer a high horsepower car or they're intentionally crippling the car so as not to threaten their ICE cars.

- Minimal discussion of charging. The MB guy on my drive wasn't sure but thought that it was probably possible to just drive up and plug into an Electrify America charger with zero login. He kept stressing that charging at EA is free for some years, but why do I care if I'm buying a $130k car? I can't afford an $8 charge the few times a year I charge away from home?

I've been very disappointed with the "luxury" of Teslas over the years, and I'm a little concerned about the long term quality and viability of Lucid, so I really wanted to like the EQS. I came away very disappointed. I don't think MB gets it. Tesla has been killing them for years in certain markets and if Lucid can execute, the EQS will just turn into a strange footnote of history.
 

Lucken

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He obviously loved the car and liked it more than anything else he's ever driven. The silence of the interior did come through on the video, contrary to my observations with the sound recordings from inside the Lucid. I still think (hope) the Lucid will be quiet enough.

Regardless, there's no room for ugly in my garage and that Mercedes is damn ugly.
 

hmp10

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He [Kyle Conner] obviously loved the car and liked it more than anything else he's ever driven. The silence of the interior did come through on the video, contrary to my observations with the sound recordings from inside the Lucid. I still think (hope) the Lucid will be quiet enough.
Conner just put up an almost hour-long review of a Tesla Model S Plaid. Conner has owned several Teslas, including a P100D, and likes the brand without being a fanboy nut job. Owning a Plaid myself, I found the review tracked our experience with the car very well.

One of Conner's big surprises was how much road noise came into the Plaid cabin despite the dual-paned windows and other NVH measures. More than once he commented that the Plaid was much noisier than both the EQS and the Lucid Air. He did this test drive after having been in the Lucid Air at the Amelia Concours and last week at Casa Grande, and after doing a long test drive in the EQS. I found it interesting that at no point did he mention the EQS was quieter than the Air . . . just that both the Lucid and EQS were considerably quieter than the Tesla.

Regardless, there's no room for ugly in my garage and that Mercedes is damn ugly.
Amen, brother.
 

hmp10

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Wow, and thanks. A very informative post, UO2.

- hit my head when I tried the back seat, like in a CLS. I'm 5'10". And my knees were jacked up. Lots of forward knee room though.
One of my disappointments when it became clear that the Air Dream Edition would not have the rear foot garages Lucid was constantly picturing with Dream stats was the rear seating position. The worry did not recede when I went to the Miami Design Studio and found my knees jacked up in the backseat just as they were in my Tesla Model S. And I have now been to two Lucid Design Studios for a total of four visits and have bumped my head getting into or our of the rear seat every damn time. (I used to be 5'8" before I started shrinking.)

I got so obsessed about this at one point that I was considering the EQS, having been blown away by the beauty of the Vision concept car . . . until they finally did the reveal and I caught a gander at that bulbous chrome-laden exterior and the Vegas casino of an interior.

Then, as reviews began, several reviews commented on the high knee position in the rear. One noted that the rear headroom in the EQS was actually less than in the refreshed Model S. Another reviewer said the angle between the seat back and the bottom cushion was so sharp that he was bending unnaturally forward (something hinted at by a graphic MB has posted).

Apparently all the EQS has going for its rear seat is a lot of forward leg room, something the Air also has in abundance, so I'm sticking with the Air.

What boggles my mind is that the Mercedes is over 3" taller than the Lucid, and its wheelbase is 9.9" longer. How in the devil could Mercedes make such a mess of packaging this car that, not only does it have no frunk, but it cannot better Lucid's rear seat with those considerably larger exterior dimensions? It really brings home how masterful a feat Lucid has pulled off with its drivetrain miniaturization.
 
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