Gravity Delivery Discussion

It really didn't sink in until they told me today that I cannot transfer my plates. Like I said, this is all new to me. Just trying to help out others who might be thinking about leasing for the first time as well.
Maybe it’s different in the state you’re in but in CA as long as the lease is in your name and not a business it seems you can have personalized plates. You just need to fill in additional paperwork as the plates belong to you not the car to transfer them to and from the vehicle. Even on a lease the DMV and Insuance company send the bill to you directly to pay not the lessor.
 
Maybe it’s different in the state you’re in but in CA as long as the lease is in your name and not a business it seems you can have personalized plates. You just need to fill in additional paperwork as the plates belong to you not the car to transfer them to and from the vehicle. Even on a lease the DMV and Insuance company send the bill to you directly to pay not the lessor.
Correct. It depends on the state, but I did this with our Hyundai. You need to get the manufacturer to fill out a Statement of Facts (REG 256) form authorizing use of the your license plate on the vehicle. It's annoying, but it's just an extra few pages. Hyundai did this without issue, and sent it along to me.

I have no idea how it works in other states, and I do know that in some states it's just straight-up not possible.
 
@WeighingGravity do you mind viewing this post and letting me know if I'm missing anything?
One other member commented that it looked good to them.
FYI this post is almost definitely not correct, but it's impossible to correct without more information.

At the end of the day, to fully calculate a lease payment, you need net capitalized cost, residual, and interest rate, and they will spit out a monthly payment. So in short it's a math equation with four variables. You only know two of them in this example (net capitalized cost and monthly payment). I can't solve for two variables with a simple equation.
 
By the way, for anyone who has enjoyed watching me twist myself into knots trying to explain leasing, and getting it wrong in an earlier post, I did figure something out that I think is worth posting, not just because I was annoyed I didn't understand it at first, but also because I think it's really freaking obscure and I honestly don't think the right answer is anywhere out there on the internet. There's a TON of misinformation about Money Factor - even ChatGPT has it wrong and I corrected ChatGPT and it kept backpedaling on me. So, just for the record, here is the lowdown:

It is a universally accepted fact that Money Factor = Equivalent APR divided by 2400. But why 2400? Most sources on the web say it's a way to convert a %age to a monthly number. This is halfway true, but only halfway. It makes sense that if an APR is, say, 6.5%, you have to divide by 100 to get to a decimal. 6.5 -> .065. Great, so we've explained why we have to divide by 100.

Then you have to divide that answer by 12, because there are 12 months in a year, and what we're using Money Factor to do is calculate a MONTHLY (not annual) interest portion of a payment. Great, so we've explained why we also have to divide by 12. We've now divided by 100, then divided by 12, which is the same as taking the original number and dividing by 100 x 12 = 1200.

So then, how do we get to 2400? (btw, most lease explainer sites are silent on why 2400 vs. 1200, and some even claim it's because lease payments are compounded monthly, which is false, but wouldn't even explain how to get to 2400 anyways). The answer is that it's an arbitrary convention based on the multiplier that is used as the basis for the monthly payment. To calculate a monthly interest portion, the conventional equation used by leasing companies is:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = Money Factor x (Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)

You'll note that Residual + TCC is much more than the cost of the vehicle. Imagine a $100K car with a $60K residual - that sum is $160K. But nobody is actually borrowing $160K. What we're really borrowing is:

- On day 1 of the lease, the leasing company is spending $100K to buy the whole car, so we have to borrow the $100K from them to take possession of the car.
- In successive months of the lease, we are paying down this $100K little by little, in equal increments, so after 1 payment we're now borrowing a little less than $100K.
- All the way until the last day of the lease, at which point we've paid down the principle down to the residual. So on the very last day of the lease, we're still borrowing $60K.

Thus, over the course of the lease, we start out borrowing $100K and whittle that down to $60K. On average, over the course of the lease, we'd have borrowed $80K. How do we calculate the average of two numbers? We add them, then divide by 2.

I think a normal person would calculate the interest portion of the payments as:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = (APR/1200) x ((Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)/2)

This makes sense to me. Apparently it didn't to the people who write leases. So they took the 2 that I have bolded above, and moved it to the part of the equation where the APR is. So, it's equivalent to say:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = (APR/1200)/2 x (Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)

Then, they took the (APR/1200)/2, (which equals APR/2400), waved a magic wand, and called it Money Factor.

In short, the reason you divide by two is that's required to average the outstanding principal balance, and instead of averaging the outstanding principal balance, they decided to sum the components of the average principal balance and move the averaging factor over to the interest multiplier.

QED, F leasing and the explanations on the internet.
 
Haha. Guys leasing is not that hard to understand. They do have some quirks in the math. The concept is easy.

Car value at purchase (purchase price) less residual value (car value at end of lease)= amount depreciated. Dividend this by the number of months you will own the car.
Then, they add interest. The math again is somewhat simple. They will charge you interest for the full value of the car, but it depreciates. So get the average of purchase price plus residual value / 2 and then compute annual interest on that less any down payment. But, don’t put extra money in a lease as you lose it if the car is stolen or totaled.

Besides some fees that is really the calc you should be doing. Use a lease calculator to get the exact math for lease factor, etc… but the simple math must make sense or else don’t lease!
 
By the way, for anyone who has enjoyed watching me twist myself into knots trying to explain leasing, and getting it wrong in an earlier post, I did figure something out that I think is worth posting, not just because I was annoyed I didn't understand it at first, but also because I think it's really freaking obscure and I honestly don't think the right answer is anywhere out there on the internet. There's a TON of misinformation about Money Factor - even ChatGPT has it wrong and I corrected ChatGPT and it kept backpedaling on me. So, just for the record, here is the lowdown:

It is a universally accepted fact that Money Factor = Equivalent APR divided by 2400. But why 2400? Most sources on the web say it's a way to convert a %age to a monthly number. This is halfway true, but only halfway. It makes sense that if an APR is, say, 6.5%, you have to divide by 100 to get to a decimal. 6.5 -> .065. Great, so we've explained why we have to divide by 100.

Then you have to divide that answer by 12, because there are 12 months in a year, and what we're using Money Factor to do is calculate a MONTHLY (not annual) interest portion of a payment. Great, so we've explained why we also have to divide by 12. We've now divided by 100, then divided by 12, which is the same as taking the original number and dividing by 100 x 12 = 1200.

So then, how do we get to 2400? (btw, most lease explainer sites are silent on why 2400 vs. 1200, and some even claim it's because lease payments are compounded monthly, which is false, but wouldn't even explain how to get to 2400 anyways). The answer is that it's an arbitrary convention based on the multiplier that is used as the basis for the monthly payment. To calculate a monthly interest portion, the conventional equation used by leasing companies is:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = Money Factor x (Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)

You'll note that Residual + TCC is much more than the cost of the vehicle. Imagine a $100K car with a $60K residual - that sum is $160K. But nobody is actually borrowing $160K. What we're really borrowing is:

- On day 1 of the lease, the leasing company is spending $100K to buy the whole car, so we have to borrow the $100K from them to take possession of the car.
- In successive months of the lease, we are paying down this $100K little by little, in equal increments, so after 1 payment we're now borrowing a little less than $100K.
- All the way until the last day of the lease, at which point we've paid down the principle down to the residual. So on the very last day of the lease, we're still borrowing $60K.

Thus, over the course of the lease, we start out borrowing $100K and whittle that down to $60K. On average, over the course of the lease, we'd have borrowed $80K. How do we calculate the average of two numbers? We add them, then divide by 2.

I think a normal person would calculate the interest portion of the payments as:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = (APR/1200) x ((Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)/2)

This makes sense to me. Apparently it didn't to the people who write leases. So they took the 2 that I have bolded above, and moved it to the part of the equation where the APR is. So, it's equivalent to say:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = (APR/1200)/2 x (Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)

Then, they took the (APR/1200)/2, (which equals APR/2400), waved a magic wand, and called it Money Factor.

In short, the reason you divide by two is that's required to average the outstanding principal balance, and instead of averaging the outstanding principal balance, they decided to sum the components of the average principal balance and move the averaging factor over to the interest multiplier.

QED, F leasing and the explanations on the internet.
So at the end of the lease, if the leasee wants to purchase the car for $60k, interest has already been paid during the lease term, so no additional interest is charged by the leasing company?

What if the leasee doesn't pay in cash? Does the leasing company transfer the buyer to their finance division and now there's more interest to be paid via a car loan for the $60k?

I'm waiting on Lucid's lease terms.
I'll either buy with cash at end of lease or buy with decent downpayment and car loan.
 
So at the end of the lease, if the leasee wants to purchase the car for $60k, interest has already been paid during the lease term, so no additional interest is charged by the leasing company?

What if the leasee doesn't pay in cash? Does the leasing company transfer the buyer to their finance division and now there's more interest to be paid via a car loan for the $60k?

I'm waiting on Lucid's lease terms.
I'll either buy with cash at end of lease or buy with decent downpayment and car loan.

Yes, you've got it.

At the end of the lease term, they own the car. You own nothing, and you owe nothing more. (unless you've gone over the lease mileage, in which case you owe additional mileage penalties) You've fulfilled your obligations, you turn in the keys, you walk away. All done.

UNLESS you want to exercise the buyout of the vehicle. Usually that's at the residual value, but sometimes there are fees to exercise the buyout, and potentially you can negotiate if the car is worth significantly less than the residual, but that's not something I've ever experienced before. AT THAT POINT, if you don't have $60K in cash, then yes, you have to take out a new purchase loan at whatever the prevailing interest rates are. Note that most loan rates on used cars tend to be higher than new car loans. Why? Because new car loans are often subsidized by the manufacturers to move product.
 
By the way, for anyone who has enjoyed watching me twist myself into knots trying to explain leasing, and getting it wrong in an earlier post, I did figure something out that I think is worth posting, not just because I was annoyed I didn't understand it at first, but also because I think it's really freaking obscure and I honestly don't think the right answer is anywhere out there on the internet. There's a TON of misinformation about Money Factor - even ChatGPT has it wrong and I corrected ChatGPT and it kept backpedaling on me. So, just for the record, here is the lowdown:

It is a universally accepted fact that Money Factor = Equivalent APR divided by 2400. But why 2400? Most sources on the web say it's a way to convert a %age to a monthly number. This is halfway true, but only halfway. It makes sense that if an APR is, say, 6.5%, you have to divide by 100 to get to a decimal. 6.5 -> .065. Great, so we've explained why we have to divide by 100.

Then you have to divide that answer by 12, because there are 12 months in a year, and what we're using Money Factor to do is calculate a MONTHLY (not annual) interest portion of a payment. Great, so we've explained why we also have to divide by 12. We've now divided by 100, then divided by 12, which is the same as taking the original number and dividing by 100 x 12 = 1200.

So then, how do we get to 2400? (btw, most lease explainer sites are silent on why 2400 vs. 1200, and some even claim it's because lease payments are compounded monthly, which is false, but wouldn't even explain how to get to 2400 anyways). The answer is that it's an arbitrary convention based on the multiplier that is used as the basis for the monthly payment. To calculate a monthly interest portion, the conventional equation used by leasing companies is:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = Money Factor x (Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)

You'll note that Residual + TCC is much more than the cost of the vehicle. Imagine a $100K car with a $60K residual - that sum is $160K. But nobody is actually borrowing $160K. What we're really borrowing is:

- On day 1 of the lease, the leasing company is spending $100K to buy the whole car, so we have to borrow the $100K from them to take possession of the car.
- In successive months of the lease, we are paying down this $100K little by little, in equal increments, so after 1 payment we're now borrowing a little less than $100K.
- All the way until the last day of the lease, at which point we've paid down the principle down to the residual. So on the very last day of the lease, we're still borrowing $60K.

Thus, over the course of the lease, we start out borrowing $100K and whittle that down to $60K. On average, over the course of the lease, we'd have borrowed $80K. How do we calculate the average of two numbers? We add them, then divide by 2.

I think a normal person would calculate the interest portion of the payments as:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = (APR/1200) x ((Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)/2)

This makes sense to me. Apparently it didn't to the people who write leases. So they took the 2 that I have bolded above, and moved it to the part of the equation where the APR is. So, it's equivalent to say:

Interest Portion of Monthly Payment = (APR/1200)/2 x (Residual Value + Total Capitalized Cost)

Then, they took the (APR/1200)/2, (which equals APR/2400), waved a magic wand, and called it Money Factor.

In short, the reason you divide by two is that's required to average the outstanding principal balance, and instead of averaging the outstanding principal balance, they decided to sum the components of the average principal balance and move the averaging factor over to the interest multiplier.

QED, F leasing and the explanations on the internet.
Learned something new today! thanks for writing it out 🙏

In trying to replicate this calc, I also discovered that excel formula `=PMT(...)`. Plugging in numbers from Lucid's website for an Air lease made me realize that APR is likely below 1% (or RV v high. Need to know one or the other to nail them both down). 😯
 
Learned something new today! thanks for writing it out 🙏

In trying to replicate this calc, I also discovered that excel formula `=PMT(...)`. Plugging in numbers from Lucid's website for an Air lease made me realize that APR is likely below 1% (or RV v high. Need to know one or the other to nail them both down). 😯
Yes, I think Lucid is heavily, heavily incentivizing Air sales with really attractive lease deals.

At launch, I doubt Gravity deals (especially when dealing with the pre-orders backlog) will be nearly as good.
 
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